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Please no Ultimate XX....or YY adventures


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Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, PFS RPG, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

10 campaign settings per year at 64 pages each is 640 pages per year.

640 pages per year divided between hardcover books with 200+ pages each is ~3 books per year.

That also changes the cash flow equation for that product line.

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, PFS RPG, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

With regard to weather, here's something I've done from time to time:

Pick a real-world area with similar geography to the adventure area and use that data to determine over all weather. You can even punch in location and date into weather underground to get historically accurate weather data.

-Skeld

Paizo Employee Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
p-sto wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I've had a player walk out of a game when I told him that there are no rules for what happens when you cast a lightning bolt underwater. I tried to deflect the problem using the "buuuht magic!" argument, but he was adamant.

Ever since I always bring that up when somebody goes 120% realism in D&D.

With Aquatic Adventures, your buddy can finally have what he's been searching for all those years!

Though sadly for him, it basically works the same in this case, as you told him, but there's a rule now to tell him that just like he wanted!

When I ran Plunder and Peril I decided that rays should refract under water and even came up with probably less than scientific rules for it. Players never decided test out them however.

I do sympathize the OP's point to a degree. Ultimate Intrigue feels like a book that codified aspects of the game that I feel never needed to be that mechanical. And it can always be said if you don't like it don't buy it and ban it from it from your table. But once it is out there someone is going to see it and use it. And some of these people are people I want to play with.

Last night I was running a PFS game and a player attempted to utilize the infamous cease fire feat during the surprise round of combat. After a moment of pause I decided the party could use the minute for buffing because I really didn't see the hostile NPC standing down to diplomacy but the player bought the book and took feat so it should probably be good for something shouldn't it.

Going further off topic, but just to let you know for next time, the moment you attack, buff, debuff, etc, you violate the truce of the Call Truce feat and combat continues straight off (they also automatically will never accept a truce that will remove an advantage such as running down their short duration buffs, leading to PCs going around or bypassing a terrain advantage, etc; basically, they'll listen, but they are still skeptical and the PCs probably can't use it to kill them more easily, just to actually try to broker a truce).


Mark Seifter wrote:
p-sto wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I've had a player walk out of a game when I told him that there are no rules for what happens when you cast a lightning bolt underwater. I tried to deflect the problem using the "buuuht magic!" argument, but he was adamant.

Ever since I always bring that up when somebody goes 120% realism in D&D.

With Aquatic Adventures, your buddy can finally have what he's been searching for all those years!

Though sadly for him, it basically works the same in this case, as you told him, but there's a rule now to tell him that just like he wanted!

When I ran Plunder and Peril I decided that rays should refract under water and even came up with probably less than scientific rules for it. Players never decided test out them however.

I do sympathize the OP's point to a degree. Ultimate Intrigue feels like a book that codified aspects of the game that I feel never needed to be that mechanical. And it can always be said if you don't like it don't buy it and ban it from it from your table. But once it is out there someone is going to see it and use it. And some of these people are people I want to play with.

Last night I was running a PFS game and a player attempted to utilize the infamous cease fire feat during the surprise round of combat. After a moment of pause I decided the party could use the minute for buffing because I really didn't see the hostile NPC standing down to diplomacy but the player bought the book and took feat so it should probably be good for something shouldn't it.

Going further off topic, but just to let you know for next time, the moment you attack, buff, debuff, etc, you violate the truce of the Call Truce feat and combat continues straight off (they also automatically will never accept a truce that will remove an advantage such as running down their short duration buffs, leading to PCs going around or bypassing a terrain advantage, etc; basically, they'll listen, but they...

I could have easily run the feat as written, however,

No Plunder, No Pay:
The player had just proposed peacefully discussing a prison break with a Chelish naval captain stationed at the prison. And of course his character was completely broken at diplomacy.

I decided to give them the minute because there were no NPC buffs on the line and I assumed the NPC in question was simply stunned by the brazenness of the attempt.


The rain thing has been blown out,of proportion. I never said i wanted rain tables. How much rain a region has could be a general state.... " the rainy season brings torrential rains flooding the area" or " the rainy season is marginally wetter then rest of year." As someone else said, as it is now players and GSm have tons of books they bring to the table. Make hardback region books could cut back on some of that. Consolidate info from different sources bout a region, then expand on it. Or even divide the continents up and have hard backs for the same general area....1 book that covers Brevoy, River Kingdoms and Halt.

But I appear to be solo in this desire


I'd rather have realm specific wandering monster charts for sandbox games than weather charts. But all of those things are handled pretty nicely in the campaign setting thin splats they put out so i'm not sure why there needs to be a hardcover.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Yes, you are. Not in wanting hardcovers of areas. But that you're asking to have the campaign setting line replaced with less stuff, more expensive stuff, about areas that people might not even be interested in.

$20 soft cover? They might keep their subscription and see if anything in there is usable.

$60 hardcover? Not so much.

And then you get into shipping...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, to be fair, they said 200-300 page books. That's more in the 45 dollar range. A still significant amount of money to consider. :-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Mayhem,

I have to agree with Rysky.
But you need to think about the reasonableness of asking for hypergranular world data for a game system that cannot consistently define what a hit point is. Worse, you ask for big expensive supplements with little or no rules additions, but tons of fluff. To maintain sales, which allows them to put stuff out, they have balance as well as they can between those who want more rules options, and those who want fluff.

If you believe you are in the majority on this, look at the size of the campaign setting sub-forum, and look at the RPG one again. I would love the Big Book of Aldoran, but I can live without it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, I got the big book of Aldoran for you.

It Was There, And Now It's Gone. Don't F%@% With The Empire.


I think there is a thing where (though this is mostly true with Grogs) some people just don't really want to own anymore softcover RPG books. Just looking back at my shelves full of stuff, "Clanbook: Malkavian" and all those faux-leather AD&D splatbooks just don't hold up (or look as nice on a shelf) as their hardcover contemporaries do. I hang onto that stuff because it's got good memories associated with it, but I'm not looking to pick up more stuff like that.

Add to that the fact that I can't just sit and read a PDF on a backlit screen without getting a headache, and the hardcover books are really the only ones I'm interested in buying.

But if we associate this phenomenon to the old and tired veterans whose total RPG collection outweighs them by an integral multiple, those people may not be as interested in "official setting material" as their less jaded counterparts.

So far the "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" line for 2017 looks pretty sparse, but I'm hoping that there's an Ultimate Foo or Bar Adventures somewhere out there that hasn't been announced yet.


I disagree in general with the OP in both tone and content, but I wouldn't mind an expansion of environmental rules, honestly. But that isn't really "rainfall tables" either. Mostly just rules for generation, expanding some skills, expanding hex crawl rules, etc.

On the topic at hand, though, I think there is enough setting content. We've had so many pages of development already and they are making more. They work hard to develop the setting, but it isn't supposed to be an ecology. The world is a vessel for telling stories. They'll detail things that improve upon stories, but certainly not stuff specific rain and heat.


Mayhemm001 wrote:

Dear Paizo I humblely ask that you please that you actually make and publish more hardback material for Inner Sea instead of releasing more general rules additions. In my opinion you have neglected the Inner Sea and short handed the fans of the setting. Some more in depth region books (at least 200pgs) would be nice, please.

And thank you

I think that the Inner Seas booklets serve their purposes just right. Sure, you need a bigger book to cover the basics, but a booklet is good to get that extra info you might need in the nick of time.

Still... a compendium of various booklets would be nice to have. I dunno, they should take like 10 booklets and merge them into a book, especially the first booklets that could use a revision or updated lore ;)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

People will stop buying the booklets if they get collected and updated on a regular basis. And monthly subs are what keeps Paizo afloat.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

If Ultimate Bromance would mean Mikaze coming back, I am in full support of it.


Rysky wrote:
Mayhemm001 wrote:
I never said a big book of Golarion. I said REGION books. And in 1 book for 1 region. Then another different book for 1 region
They already do that.

What he apparently wants is the Inner Sea World Guide treatment for each region, i.e. a Big hardbound book each for Chelaxia, Kortos, The Land of the Linnorm Kings, River Kingdoms, etc. And that's not going to happen.

Dark Archive

To be fair to op, if I understood right, they are asking less for raintables and more for "What kind of weather Varisia has in spring, summer, fall/autumn and winter"? If GM doesn't have know much about geography and how weather works, I can see that bothering someone if they happened to just assume it snows everywhere on winters besides countries far in south.

Like, okay, in case of Varisia, it has rainy seasons on winter instead of snowing(at least when not close to mountains in north). Thats something you can find out by reading Rise of the runelords and its mentioned passing by, I don't remember if any campaign setting books actually reply to information like that. Maybe Inner Sea Guidebook? I should check on that.

But yeah I'm still not sure which areas of Inner Sea, besides far north, has actually snow during the winter, soooo I don't think their request is completely prepostorious(assuming it really isn't mentioned anywhere), though I don't think they should take priority over the other books.

But yeah, if he does actually want hardcover book for each of countries, yeaaaah thats bit too much even if it would be cool. I mean, that would totally bankrupt Paizo ._.;


2 people marked this as a favorite.

As someone who doesn't play Golarion, I would find replacing the non-setting books with "Setting details most people who play the setting find near useless to begin with" rather depressing of an idea.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Typically when I read the fantastic descriptions of the places in Galorian it gives me muse and impetus to fill in all the gaps myself.

On weather: I don't want to toot my own horn, or barometer but I'm a fairly seasoned domestic meteorologist, measuring my local rainfall and atmospheric pressure, humidity and temperature and honestly there is no way to 'gamify' these systems.

Imagine several pages of tables, now roll on those tables, that's your weather for today, but now you've set precedent for the following weather as we observe Torricelli ideas of atmospheric pressure phenomenon-

And then a druid casts Control Weather.

*Table flip my temperature scatter plot*


For all the details that went into the classic D&D settings, I can totally understand the desire for granular info about regions, cities, even particular buildings. Sure, you can say those were curated over a few decades. Well, Golarion is about to crest upon its first. Plus, there is only 1 official setting for Pathfinder instead of the myriad for D&D. So, when does Golarion get that kind of depth? I also miss the old style city stat blocks that had things like realistic populations and total asset values.

I've just spent the last 4 days tearing through two Tales books so I can't fault Paizo for what they have done. However, I can see where certain themes, stories, and arcs are often recycled even between different authors because the setting isn't really all that deep though it is broad. Something I wish would be different is this forum's reactions to such requests being an instant "no one wants that" echo chamber. The OP is FAR from alone. Is the demand enough to make the setting materials far eclipse the rules materials? Unsure. Is Paizo large enough to support that kind of detail? Again, unsure. Even so, the market does exist.


You do know that the Forgotten Realms setting map was originally set up using geologic and climatological modeling. A lot of it was literally thrown out to make a saleable product.


I'd still take something like "ultimate Alchemy"
but I'm that guy in the group.

Grand Lodge

"Play a game OR pretend you're an elf cartographer!"


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sarcasm Elemental wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
TOZ, Rysky and Cpt. The Day After Yesterday! My favourite forum bromances!
I ship it.

I tried shipping it, but Ships of Golarion is totally half-assed. I won't be able to ship anything until Paizo releases a 1366 page hardcover titled Ships, Boats, and Barges of the Inner Sea.


I would definitely find it cool if there were bigger books ala the current region ones, only with more content. The big nations have enough cities, factions, cultures, and noteworthy individuals/monsters to fill one.

I also don't think it commercially viable, and the current softcover ones do manage to pack in surprisingly good amounts of info, so I'm not holding my breath.

(Also I'm in the 'I prefer softcover to hard' category. Easier to store, I can have more of them, etc.).

Grand Lodge

What I'd like to know is, what would you actually DO with that information? Would you regale your players with it, ignoring their heavy sighs and eye rolling? I'm all for verisimilitude, but what you're describing is just the tip of the minutiae iceberg. So you want rainfall data and detailed seasonal climate information for a particular region. While that satisfied your itch, it didn't do anything for the next player, who would really have appreciated it if the book could have provided air quality charts for a region, and another player would have had their day made if it would have properly defined what species of tree is used as a source of lumber for buildings in a settlement (and stats for that specific species, compared in a chart to the stats of other trees. I'd want to know that the door I'm about to bash in is oak and not cedar, cause I'll need to hit harder).

Snark aside, I don't think anyone needs that level of detail (AND COMING FROM ME THAT IS REALLY SAYING SOMETHING), and if you do, there is nothing to stop you from coming up with that yourself. I can promise you won't run the risk of having to ret-con your setting for your players because Paizo published a book featuring regional seasonal rainfall you didn't think would ever get released and so made up stuff yourself.


Buri Reborn wrote:
Even so, the market does exist.

One way to demonstrate that there is a market is to create that kind of detailed product and offer it as a 3rd party supplement. You could leave the actual real-world names on the data, but suggest which countries/kingdoms in various fantasy worlds that it might apply to.

The data might be for Seattle, for example, but you could describe it as useful for a temperate rain forest and then give examples across several fantasy worlds of where temperate rain forests might be found.

If the demand is large enough, you might even be able to pay yourself for the time you spent putting together the document. Printing it might not be worthwhile, but a PDF could still turn a profit.

Paizo Employee Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
CrystalSeas wrote:
Buri Reborn wrote:
Even so, the market does exist.

One way to demonstrate that there is a market is to create that kind of detailed product and offer it as a 3rd party supplement. You could leave the actual real-world names on the data, but suggest which countries/kingdoms in various fantasy worlds that it might apply to.

The data might be for Seattle, for example, but you could describe it as useful for a temperate rain forest and then give examples across several fantasy worlds of where temperate rain forests might be found.

If the demand is large enough, you might even be able to pay yourself for the time you spent putting together the document. Printing it might not be worthwhile, but a PDF could still turn a profit.

I am not a lawyer or especially versed in intellectual property law.

As I understand it, a third party source would not be able to reference Paizo's setting material unless the product were fan-produced and followed the community use guidelines (as does Wayfinder) or the product were only referencing the setting as recommended reading material (as Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures recommends choice horror fiction on pages 252–253).

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