Combat with an Empiricist Investigator


Advice

51 to 74 of 74 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

BadBird wrote:
If Hurtful was PFS-legal, half the melee character out there would use it, and the other half that needed their swift-actions for something else would feel rightly ripped-off. Hurtful is just... too much, at least in my opinion.

I mean.. it's decent? From like levels 1-5? And then starts to fall off into mediocre.

Generally though, yeah PFS tends to be very squeamish about giving martial characters decent options.


I really need to makea whip emp inv.


An extra attack at full bab is very strong. Probably the strongest thing you can do. That's why haste is considered the best buff.

Do you arcane strike adding 2/3 damage or add a complete extra attack?

and making it available after a move meant that you'd get even more attacks than someone without it.

And it's especially good for all the 3/4 bab classes since they don't get a second attack for even longer.

Easily can see it as a game warping feat.


swoosh wrote:
BadBird wrote:
If Hurtful was PFS-legal, half the melee character out there would use it, and the other half that needed their swift-actions for something else would feel rightly ripped-off. Hurtful is just... too much, at least in my opinion.

I mean.. it's decent? From like levels 1-5? And then starts to fall off into mediocre.

Generally though, yeah PFS tends to be very squeamish about giving martial characters decent options.

It's a double-attack on a charge/standard, and a full-BAB-bonus-attack on a full attack. Statistically, that's an absolutely colossal benefit; even with Haste active, it's still over 33% more damage on a full attack, and 100% more damage on a round where normally there's only a standard attack made.

Whether or not 'martials can have nice things' ignores the idea of balance between martial characters themselves. Adding a massive potential damage benefit to only some martials (that can make use of it) is extremely unbalancing between melee characters.


Zwordsman wrote:
I really need to makea whip emp inv.

If only whips could be enchanted with Inspired, i would have used one on mine. As is, i would only ever use Rapiers or Short Bows since that enchantment is drastically powerful.

Verdant Wheel

We do need to remember that Hurtful requires you be in melee and have succeeded on an Intimidate check. Not so good against anything with super Wisdom, and immunity to fear will ruin the strategy right away, as will. You have to build for Intimidate to use this, and it's useless against a lot of higher level foes.

Nonetheless, it can be really very powerful if you build for it, which is something that any martial that I can think of could do, though obviously Vigilantes are going to be really really good at it (especially with Twisting Shadows and an Inquisitor VMC, rrawr).


Build for Cornugon Smash and even a little of the intimidate build suggested earlier can pay huge dividends, then hurtful becomes a lot more reliable.


Torbyne wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:
I really need to makea whip emp inv.
If only whips could be enchanted with Inspired, i would have used one on mine. As is, i would only ever use Rapiers or Short Bows since that enchantment is drastically powerful.

Right... I keep forgetting its all restricted like that...

Honestly I still dont know why the whip wasn't included in that.. freaking indiana winifred jones..... and so many others.

Sovereign Court

Inspired is nice, but it's not like you have to go that way to be effective. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Bane (evil outsiders) on an adamantine longspear. I'm considering either Holy, going to +3 or going Fortuitous next.

Fortuitous is also busted if you're going for abnormal reach (enlarge/monstrous physique II; longarm; longspear).


Nitro~Nina wrote:

We do need to remember that Hurtful requires you be in melee and have succeeded on an Intimidate check. Not so good against anything with super Wisdom, and immunity to fear will ruin the strategy right away, as will. You have to build for Intimidate to use this, and it's useless against a lot of higher level foes.

Nonetheless, it can be really very powerful if you build for it, which is something that any martial that I can think of could do, though obviously Vigilantes are going to be really really good at it (especially with Twisting Shadows and an Inquisitor VMC, rrawr).

It doesn't really take that much to build for it. In this case it's a trait to base it on a primary stat (INT) and a Racial Trait (Skill Focus). At 10th level you're +32-ish (if you get a 1 on your inspiration die), which means you're auto-succeeding on most CR 16 monsters. An average d20 roll of 10 and you've just succeeded on a Red Dragon Wyrm (CR 20), not sure I'd call that "useless".


Ascalaphus wrote:

Inspired is nice, but it's not like you have to go that way to be effective. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Bane (evil outsiders) on an adamantine longspear. I'm considering either Holy, going to +3 or going Fortuitous next.

Fortuitous is also busted if you're going for abnormal reach (enlarge/monstrous physique II; longarm; longspear).

I'd put inspired on par with gloves of dueling. You don't have to have it but the boost to your combat math is such that you can deal the hurt similarly to some real pipe hitting character builds for 1 to 2 rounds.

To MMO language it, inspired provides sick on demand burst. Especially once you get amazing+tenacious inspiration. (Whichever gives you d8's then roll 2 keep the highest, i dont have the talent names memorized)

Sovereign Court

I'm not trying to put down Inspired - I'm sure it works as hoped for. Just saying that I've never really felt the lack of it, because the alternatives are strong too. I don't think I've ever (L9) spent inspiration on attack rolls. It's all about hulking out with alchemy for me.

I guess the conclusion for me is that it's the investigator class that's strong, and that you can top it off with any one of several enchantments.


You notice the difference once you've had it though, Inspired is a limited resource but it almost guarantees a hit and adds around 12 damage to that hit. Very little else is on that level, especially for a +1 cost. I suppose you could go for a large sized Short Sword to get better Power Attack and 1.5 STR on top of Inspired for really pushing the damage up, the -2 for size isnt that much considering you have studied combat bonus AND the inspired result to add to your attack.

Sovereign Court

I think against foes without DR I still get best results with gargoyle natural attacks powered by mutagen and power attack.. each individual hit may be less impressive than Inspired, but it's four attacks at full BAB, and with all the bonuses an investigator stacks the hit rate is quite high.

Against foes with DR the adamantine/evil outsider bane longspear makes a big difference. Penetrating DR/Hardness, and often enough also the extra bane 2d6+2 bane damage. And it just keeps going and going - usually you kill enemies before you even need to spend any inspiration to refresh study. Now that I'm starting to run into straight DR/good though I'm considering splurging for a +3 enchantment.

Silver Crusade

I'm also working on an empiricist investigator (for PFS) and I can't decide on a second trait. I thought I needed Pragmatic Activator, before realizing I get s better version of it as a class ability at level 2.

Right now, all I have is Reactionary, and even that isn't a required trait.

Dark Archive

Student of Philosophy is always great if your Cha is low and you plan on talking to people, it's pretty common on Empiricists though so you may prefer to branch out and avoid going to Mr Tibbers Talky Place: Absaloms Finest Philosophy Academy! ;)

Silver Crusade

Yeah I don't have the book for it anyway, so that's right out.

Sovereign Court

Armor Expert is pretty popular for wearing mithral breastplate without needing to take medium armor proficiency.


Bruising Intellect is an obvious pick, particularly since you can weaponize Intimidate. Speaking of... there's also Merciful Blade.

Silver Crusade

BadBird wrote:
Bruising Intellect is an obvious pick, particularly since you can weaponize Intimidate. Speaking of... there's also Merciful Blade.

Bruising Intellect it is.

Scarab Sages

You can click on this character to see a skill focused Empiricist Investigator. At low levels mostly contributed to combat via knowledge checks and some thrown alch weapons ect. After studdied combat+heroism (alch allocation a potion to make it use 1 level lower extract), pretty amazing accuracy, if you want to focus combat more, power attack and a mutagen would help a bunch.

At level 9 with an inspired weapon it is pretty amazing to spend 1 inspiration to get +1d8 to hit and +1d8x2 to damage, just with bull's strength and studdied combat my skills focused character can hit for over 30 damage without power attack or mutagen. I could have easily lowered Int for more str/con as well and still been quite good at skills.

A bit squishy as far as AC, barkskin helps some but still go down much faster than a dedicated melee, but easily effective enough to contribute to combat effectivly

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Khaled Akil wrote:

You can click on this character to see a skill focused Empiricist Investigator. At low levels mostly contributed to combat via knowledge checks and some thrown alch weapons ect. After studdied combat+heroism (alch allocation a potion to make it use 1 level lower extract), pretty amazing accuracy, if you want to focus combat more, power attack and a mutagen would help a bunch.

At level 9 with an inspired weapon it is pretty amazing to spend 1 inspiration to get +1d8 to hit and +1d8x2 to damage, just with bull's strength and studdied combat my skills focused character can hit for over 30 damage without power attack or mutagen. I could have easily lowered Int for more str/con as well and still been quite good at skills.

A bit squishy as far as AC, barkskin helps some but still go down much faster than a dedicated melee, but easily effective enough to contribute to combat effectivly

Guess I need to update his profile a few levels behind. I will try to do this when I have access to his sheet

Scarab Sages

Kigvan wrote:


Guess I need to update his profile a few levels behind. I will try to do this when I have access to his sheet

Updated

Verdant Wheel

Jodokai wrote:
Nitro~Nina wrote:

We do need to remember that Hurtful requires you be in melee and have succeeded on an Intimidate check. Not so good against anything with super Wisdom, and immunity to fear will ruin the strategy right away, as will. You have to build for Intimidate to use this, and it's useless against a lot of higher level foes.

Nonetheless, it can be really very powerful if you build for it, which is something that any martial that I can think of could do, though obviously Vigilantes are going to be really really good at it (especially with Twisting Shadows and an Inquisitor VMC, rrawr).

It doesn't really take that much to build for it. In this case it's a trait to base it on a primary stat (INT) and a Racial Trait (Skill Focus). At 10th level you're +32-ish (if you get a 1 on your inspiration die), which means you're auto-succeeding on most CR 16 monsters. An average d20 roll of 10 and you've just succeeded on a Red Dragon Wyrm (CR 20), not sure I'd call that "useless".

I meant that a lot of higher level foes don't feel fear at all. Other than that... I stand pretty much corrected.

Still, I like martial characters having abilities like this. It's powerful, but just another standard weapon attack. Spellcasters can use their Swift Action to cast a lower-level spell by the same token as you use your Swift to conditionally strike.

51 to 74 of 74 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Combat with an Empiricist Investigator All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.