Ravener Hunter Inquisitor Archetype


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So the http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/inquisit or-archetypes---paizo/ravener-hunter-inquisitor Inquisitor was made legal for PFS. And it grants inquisitors accces to 2 revelations instead of one domain or inquisition. Seems to me like this can be a very favorable trade so I'm looking into possible builds.

Some initial ideas:

The obvious Battle Mystery for access to all martial weapons and heavy armor.

The Life mystery for a single class Oradin. A Dwarf Inquisitor who takes the Dwarf FCB can get fast healing 5 at level 8.

Wood Mystery archer inquisitors get nice static to hit bonuses making the combo pretty crazy.

Also you can stack Ravener Hunter with Sanctified Slayer and a few other interesting Archetypes.

So do folks have any other cool ideas?


Flame for cinder dance & gaze of flames - mobility and seeing thru fog/smoke - might be handy enough on its own. The ability to see thru fog would make using a sanctified slayer's sneak attack with ranged weapons easier.

Adding burst of radiance to the inquisitor spell list is good for them too.

Stone's crystal sight and earth glide make infiltration a breeze and inquisitors have better skills/spells for that than oracles generally do.

A lot of revelations reference charisma though, which is very much a dump stat for most inquisitors.


Lunar will give you a full strength animal companion with no reliance on charisma.

While Battle can give you proficiencies and feats it also gives access to a huge initiative boost and lets you act in surprise rounds at 7th.

Heavens can give you flight.

Solar can give you long distance travel and a dimension door effect.

Time gives a huge initiative boost like battle and supernatural move action teleportation

Volcano gives a stationary obscuring mist you can see through allowing you to shoot people who cannot see you and long duration elemental form for great combat boosts.

Wind can give you flight, gaseous form, invisibility and later greater invisibility.

Wood can get a stacking competence bonus to attacks with wooden weapons.


New Shadow Mysteries. Cloak of Darkness, Wings of Darkness, Shadow Armament. Or Dark Secrets (I do not know how to legally)

And Sanctified Slayer.


The archetype only grants access to the following Mysteries:

ancestor, battle, flame, heavens, life, lunar, nature, solar, stone, time, volcano, waves, wind, or wood

So Shadow Mystery is out of the question.

Good call on Burst of Radiance. Pretty nifty spell I must say...

Ash Cloud from Volcano is actually really strong as it has no duration so it works nicely with Sanctified Slayer and Ranged weapons. I'm not thrilled by the Magma Elemntal though as it only has one slam attack.

Oh and rock throwing could actually be pretty nifty too...I'm not sure if you can use a Blink Back belt with rocks, but if so you could get Bane on a rock and have it deal something like 2d4+11+2d6.


Alex Mack wrote:
I'm not thrilled by the Magma Elemntal though as it only has one slam attack.

Elementals can use weapons and it gets two at large.


Alex Mack wrote:

The archetype only grants access to the following Mysteries:

ancestor, battle, flame, heavens, life, lunar, nature, solar, stone, time, volcano, waves, wind, or wood

So Shadow Mystery is out of the question.

Oh. Sorry. then the Wind better for Slayer.


andreww wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:
I'm not thrilled by the Magma Elemntal though as it only has one slam attack.
Elementals can use weapons and it gets two at large.

Oh nice... so you keep your armor and your weaponry get a free secondary attack (do slams use your limbs?) and Earth Glide and +2 STR and +4 Natural Armor as an hour by level buff. Too bad you can only select it from level 8 onward. Still sounds like a winner...

If you pull it off as an Oread or Dwarf it's actually quite thematic...


So here's a list of compatible Archetypes:

Exorcist
Faith Hunter
Heretic
Iconoclast
Infiltrator
Secret Seeker
Sanctified Slayer
Traceless Operative
Urban Infiltrator
Vampire Hunter
Vigilant Defender
Witch Hunter

Sanctified Slayer is obviously a good option. I also like Witch Hunter, Infiltrator and Urban Infilatrator as decent trades.


Alex Mack wrote:
andreww wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:
I'm not thrilled by the Magma Elemntal though as it only has one slam attack.
Elementals can use weapons and it gets two at large.

Oh nice... so you keep your armor and your weaponry get a free secondary attack (do slams use your limbs?) and Earth Glide and +2 STR and +4 Natural Armor as an hour by level buff. Too bad you can only select it from level 8 onward. Still sounds like a winner...

If you pull it off as an Oread or Dwarf it's actually quite thematic...

You don't keep your armor.

polymorph effects, magic chapter wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).

I think slams use your limbs, yes. At the least a vampire probably isn't body-checking you to drain your life. It's still a decent buff without these.


avr wrote:
You don't keep your armor.

You do if you put it on after you change.


andreww wrote:
avr wrote:
You don't keep your armor.
You do if you put it on after you change.

A bit cheesy but feasible on an hour per level buff.

Solar also looks like it's feasible with Luminous Form (Su) providing access to a Blur effect and Sun Stride mimicking a teleportation effect.


I've been thinking of making a Half Orce Ravener Hunter with the Battle mystery and I've found myself wondering about the order in which to take a couple revelations. I figure I'll take Skill at Arms for the heavy armor proficiency and Weapon Mastery for weapon focus and improved crit so which would be more beneficial to take first? I would think Skill at Arms and get heavy armor as soon as possible since the second revelation doesn't come until level 8 and that's when Weapon Mastery would provide improved crit anyway. At the end of the day I know it's not a big deal but I'm interested in hearing what other people's opinions are on the subject.


pocsaclypse wrote:
I've been thinking of making a Half Orce Ravener Hunter with the Battle mystery and I've found myself wondering about the order in which to take a couple revelations. I figure I'll take Skill at Arms for the heavy armor proficiency and Weapon Mastery for weapon focus and improved crit so which would be more beneficial to take first? I would think Skill at Arms and get heavy armor as soon as possible since the second revelation doesn't come until level 8 and that's when Weapon Mastery would provide improved crit anyway. At the end of the day I know it's not a big deal but I'm interested in hearing what other people's opinions are on the subject.

I agree with your assessment. However one of the big advantages of Half Orc is that it has good weapon proficiencies to start with...

Does anyone know of good melee weapons that work with Woodbond? I was thinking Tetsubo as I'm especially looking for weapons with a D10 or D12 damage die that work well with enlarge shenanigans.

I'm kinda reluctant to try and cheese great axe and woodbond as that will likely be given a nono by some PFS GMs.


(Sidenote: Ravener Hunter also stacks with Monster Tactician, but that will never be PFS legal, so..)

I'm wondering if just going with a longspear might be worth it - a reach build would appreciate the accuracy, and potentially gets more mileage out of bane, while also mitigating the self-buffing action economy challenge. Archery seems like the style that would benefit the most, though.

Yamatsumi offers the Tetsubo prof. for free, iirc, and is very naturey, if you're going for that.


So the Great Terbutje is essentially a wooden bastard sword. Sadly it requires EWP but it should be worth it. Not sure how I can get EWP without going Half Elf though...

Fast Drinkers gives you easy access Enlarge Person. Also Gorumite Inquisitors get access to lead blades as a third level spell. For the early levels you can get a wand (duration is 10 minutes) later on you can cast it as a long term buff. So Enlarged and buffed your melee weapon deals 4d8 points of base damage. Add in Bane and that 26 STR and you'll pack quite the whallop.

All buffs save for Enlarge Person equally benefit Archery so you are decent with a bow with 0 invest.

Build:

Half Elf Ravener Hunter Inquisitor of Gorum
Archetypes (maybe Sanctified Slayer? Witch Hunter could work as well)
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 7

Traits:
Fast Drinker, Fate's Favored

Revelations:
Wood Shape
Tree Shape? (Won't work in conjunction with Enlarge person though)
or Thorn Burst or Speak with Wood

Feats:
1 ???
3 Power Attack
5 Furious Focus
7 Cornugon smash
9 Vital Strike
11 Divine Interference


If going for battle I think it would probably be a mistake to skip the initiative boosting revelation. Rolling multiple times means you dont need to focous much other reseaources into it and acting in the surprise round is a great benefit. I would probably skip the proficiencies revelation and just pick a god with a decent weapon.


andreww wrote:
If going for battle I think it would probably be a mistake to skip the initiative boosting revelation. Rolling multiple times means you dont need to focous much other reseaources into it and acting in the surprise round is a great benefit. I would probably skip the proficiencies revelation and just pick a god with a decent weapon.

While I feel like Initiative is generally overrated for martials I agree that proficiencies aren't such a big deal.


andreww wrote:
If going for battle I think it would probably be a mistake to skip the initiative boosting revelation. Rolling multiple times means you dont need to focous much other reseaources into it and acting in the surprise round is a great benefit. I would probably skip the proficiencies revelation and just pick a god with a decent weapon.

Depends heavily on what proficiencies you end up with. Unless you have a good racial proficiency/deity favored weapon a standard melee build for the inquisitor really needs to pick up a better melee weapon proficiency. So if you aren't a half-orc for instance, going with skill at arms may be worth it. Half-orcs should probably go with the initiative boosts though, as heavy armor proficiency and a slight weapon upgrade isn't worth the revelation. (You are better off spending a feat on heavy armor instead of improved initiative for example).


Wood Bond is really nice if you are going for a ranged build, though everyone here seems to be focused on going melee.


Letariel wrote:
Wood Bond is really nice if you are going for a ranged build, though everyone here seems to be focused on going melee.

Works for either...but naturally it's best for longbows. Since the longbow is probably the best weapon for inquisitors there's a certain amount of synergy here...


Curious, why is the Longbow (probably) the best weapon for Inquisitors?


archery builds have the potential to be very high (the highest?) dpr builds with high survivability and inquisitors make murderously effective archers.


I understand that Archery builds can put out a significant amount of damage, I guess I was just curious as to what, specifically, makes an Inquisitor a good archer. More pointedly, where would the Inquisitor stand in the line with Zen Archer / Ranger / Slayer / Fighter archers?


Krell44 wrote:

where would the Inquisitor stand in the line with Zen Archer / Ranger / Slayer / Fighter archers?

that i dont know so much. the inquisitors judgements and bane work at any range for attack and damage boost but i think they have a harder time getting all the feats ready. i dont play a lot of archers so im a bit out of my baliwick but someone that knows better than me will chime in im sure.


archery is TWF without needing to worry about getting into position.


Krell44 wrote:

I understand that Archery builds can put out a significant amount of damage, I guess I was just curious as to what, specifically, makes an Inquisitor a good archer. More pointedly, where would the Inquisitor stand in the line with Zen Archer / Ranger / Slayer / Fighter archers?

I'll take this one.

Inquisitors have the following weaknesses:

1. Mediocre BAB.

2. Bad REF saves.

3. Bad CMD.

4. Take a lot of ramp up time (standard action buffs, swift actions for Bane and Judgments.)

Archery as a fighting style also has some weaknesses:

A. Low base damage.

B. Bad critical range.

C. Feat intensive.

Archer Inquisitors ameliorate these problems in their combination:

1. Mediocre BAB is not that important when you get Rapid Shot.

2. Bad CMD is not that important when you are super far away from Grapple/Disarm range.

3. DEX focus reduces REF issues.

4. Ramp up time is less of a matter when you don't have to MOVE into the fray, and can simply buff and start pelting.

A. Inquisitor has a ton of base damage in Judgments and Bane.

B. Inquisitors don't care too much about crits, and have several sources of damage that don't scale with crits anyway (Bane and Flames of the Faithful to name some).

C. Inquisitors don't need to spend feats on anything in particular (good Fort/Will saves and big initiative make Great Fort/Iron Will/Imp. Init less of a matter).


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Krell44 wrote:

I understand that Archery builds can put out a significant amount of damage, I guess I was just curious as to what, specifically, makes an Inquisitor a good archer. More pointedly, where would the Inquisitor stand in the line with Zen Archer / Ranger / Slayer / Fighter archers?

this thread is all about comparing archers and the linked post is the DPR calculations done on the builds I made earlier in that thread.


The Battle Mystery has War Sight, Maneuver Mastery, and Surprising Charge, which are all more 'profound'. Skill at Arms isn't bad or anything, but things like multi-rolling initiative or gaining BAB = level plus bonus feats for a combat maneuver is pretty intense.

Like, say, taking Maneuver Master: Trip at level 8 and then Greater Trip at level 9 would let you combine Inquisitor buffs with full-BAB combat maneuver tripping; throw in Surprising Charge and Abundant Revelation, and three times per day you can move up to a moving enemy as an immediate action and take a trip AoO.

Wood Mystery is a great bonus for any weapon, including spears and even wooden shields; for a feat, Great Terbutje is a wooden bastard sword.

Life Mystery grants Channel Energy, which opens up: Guided Hand, Crusader's Flurry, Channeling Force, Channel Energy (with War Blessing).

Wind grants Invisibility and even Greater Invisibility (Sanctified Slayer perhaps...?).

Several Mysteries grant armor revelations that can be very strong if you're DEX-based, or if you go Unchained Monk 1.

Unchained Monk 1/ Sanctified Slayer Ravener Hunter Inquisitor with Wind could use Wis-to-AC plus Air Barrier, and then use Greater Invisibility Sneak Attack Flurry of Blows with a Monk weapon.


BadBird wrote:

The Battle Mystery has War Sight, Maneuver Mastery, and Surprising Charge, which are all more 'profound'. Skill at Arms isn't bad or anything, but things like multi-rolling initiative or gaining BAB = level plus bonus feats for a combat maneuver is pretty intense.

Surprising Charge is very good for Oracles. But Inquisitors really need their swift actions for other things. Not saying it's unplayable just less strong.

BadBird wrote:


Life Mystery grants Channel Energy, which opens up: Guided Hand, Crusader's Flurry, Channeling Force, Channel Energy (with War Blessing).

The feat is called Energy Channel not Channel Energy. TbH I wasn't thinking of those applications of channel energy. I'm afraid that Energy Channel would suck as you don't have enough swift actions to support it and not enough Charisma to make it worth while, the same goes for Channeling Force.

Now Guided Hand and Crusaders Flurry might be a different matter. My first instinct on Crusaders Flurry would be which Deity specific weapon is better than the Sansetsukon? Only seems worth it if you really want to flurry with a reach weapon.


Alex Mack wrote:

Surprising Charge is very good for Oracles. But Inquisitors really need their swift actions for other things. Not saying it's unplayable just less strong.

The feat is called Energy Channel not Channel Energy. TbH I wasn't thinking of those applications of channel energy. I'm afraid that Energy Channel would suck as you don't have enough swift actions to support it and not enough Charisma to make it worth while, the same goes for Channeling Force.

Now Guided Hand and Crusaders Flurry might be a different matter. My first instinct on Crusaders Flurry would be which Deity specific weapon is better than the Sansetsukon? Only seems worth it if you really want to flurry with a reach weapon.

Swift-action use is potentially cramped, but it can be workable. Judgement basically takes round 1; beyond that you can be using Surprising Charge between rounds 1 and 2 and still activate Bane on round 3. Energy Channel is problematic; it would almost certainly need some Extra Channel. Still, if you can activate Energy Channel on round 3 to add a ton of bonus elemental damage (choose between two types with the right deity) to your Bane full-attack...

The first thing that comes to mind with Crusader's Flurry is a Guided Hand combo; WIS to attack and AC with favored weapon flurry. Crusader's Flurry: scimitar with Dervish Dance is another possibility.

Guided Hand can also work with 9-ring broadsword flurry with Hei-Feng.


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Ravener Hunters explicitly don't have a deity, so they don't get a favored weapon, so no Guided Hand/Crusader's Flurry.


is there a class (or more likely archetype) that gets flurry and channel energy out of the box or would you have to multiclass for something like that?


pocsaclypse wrote:
is there a class (or more likely archetype) that gets flurry and channel energy out of the box or would you have to multiclass for something like that?

Sacred Fist Warpriest gets you both of those.


I don't really see the point in crusader's flurry. Very few deity weapons are better than the sansetsukon.


nicholas storm wrote:
I don't really see the point in crusader's flurry. Very few deity weapons are better than the sansetsukon.

Dervish Dance still works with flurry if you wanna ignore strength; alternatively, it's good for grabbing reach weapons.


Calth wrote:
Ravener Hunters explicitly don't have a deity, so they don't get a favored weapon, so no Guided Hand/Crusader's Flurry.

Are Ravener Hunters explicitly prohibited from having a deity at all? It says they don't derive their powers from a patron deity in the way an Inquisitor normally does, but Guided Hand and Crusader's Flurry only require that you have a deity, not that your deity is what empowers your class.


For that matter, their weapon/armor proficiency remain unchanged. So they still get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon.


What would be really strange and interesting territory would be a WIS>STR> Sanctified Slayer Ravener Hunter who picks up Two-Weapon Fighting at 8/9, dual-wielding his deity's favored weapon with Guided Hand.


A straight ravener hunter/sanctified slayer wouldnt have channel energy but you could take a cleric dip to fix that. Plus, taking a cleric level gets you around any possible rules trouble by getting your diety and favored weapon through the cleric level instead of the inquisitor levels.


Alex Mack wrote:

So the Ravener Hunter Inquisitor was made legal for PFS. And it grants inquisitors accces to 2 revelations instead of one domain or inquisition. Seems to me like this can be a very favorable trade so I'm looking into possible builds.

{. . .}
So do folks have any other cool ideas?

Not an idea yet, but in the meantime I fixed your link.


pocsaclypse wrote:
A straight ravener hunter/sanctified slayer wouldnt have channel energy but you could take a cleric dip to fix that. Plus, taking a cleric level gets you around any possible rules trouble by getting your diety and favored weapon through the cleric level instead of the inquisitor levels.

Ravener takes Life Mystery, Channel Revelation.


that also works


BadBird wrote:
Calth wrote:
Ravener Hunters explicitly don't have a deity, so they don't get a favored weapon, so no Guided Hand/Crusader's Flurry.
Are Ravener Hunters explicitly prohibited from having a deity at all? It says they don't derive their powers from a patron deity in the way an Inquisitor normally does, but Guided Hand and Crusader's Flurry only require that you have a deity, not that your deity is what empowers your class.

Pretty sure that they aren't supposed to have a deity period as their patron are spirits. Or in other words they have a pseudodeity that provides revelations instead of normal deity benefits.


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Calth wrote:
BadBird wrote:
Calth wrote:
Ravener Hunters explicitly don't have a deity, so they don't get a favored weapon, so no Guided Hand/Crusader's Flurry.
Are Ravener Hunters explicitly prohibited from having a deity at all? It says they don't derive their powers from a patron deity in the way an Inquisitor normally does, but Guided Hand and Crusader's Flurry only require that you have a deity, not that your deity is what empowers your class.
Pretty sure that they aren't supposed to have a deity period as their patron are spirits. Or in other words they have a pseudodeity that provides revelations instead of normal deity benefits.

There's a big difference between patron deity mechanics and having a deity. There's nothing in the rules that says they can't, like anyone else, have a deity they worship, and I don't see any other reason that a character aided by 'the spirits' can't also worship a deity. Should Witches, Shamans and Oracles all be denied worshipping a deity because their powers come from some kind of mysterious forces?


Calth wrote:
BadBird wrote:
Calth wrote:
Ravener Hunters explicitly don't have a deity, so they don't get a favored weapon, so no Guided Hand/Crusader's Flurry.
Are Ravener Hunters explicitly prohibited from having a deity at all? It says they don't derive their powers from a patron deity in the way an Inquisitor normally does, but Guided Hand and Crusader's Flurry only require that you have a deity, not that your deity is what empowers your class.
Pretty sure that they aren't supposed to have a deity period as their patron are spirits. Or in other words they have a pseudodeity that provides revelations instead of normal deity benefits.

This might be a case of sloppy editing but as is Weapon proficiencies remain unchanged and by PFS rules you choose one deity and can receive deity specifc benefits, related to classes, feats and so forth from it.

I still need plenty of convincing that a guided hand, Crusders Flurry build is viable btw. I mean you need 4 feats to get it all together.


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Re: Volcano Mystery + Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor - I'm loving this idea.

Ash Cloud + Sneak Attack + Studied Target makes for a 'mundane' character that doesn't have resource issues at low levels (and is self-sufficient with setting up their own sneak attack), while still being able to kick it up a few notches through spells and bane.

During the later levels, you can grab Whirlwind Attack off Sarenrae's Ranger Combat Style, and couple it up with Greater Invisibility + Magma Elemental + Greater Bane to deliver a quick whirl of death as you earth glide through the opposition. Abundant Revelations should ensure that you can stay a Magma Elemental 24/7 by level 12.

Hot.


Alex Mack wrote:
I still need plenty of convincing that a guided hand, Crusders Flurry build is viable btw. I mean you need 4 feats to get it all together.

A Human could have Guided Hand working at level 1 and Crusader's Flurry working with their Monk dip at level 5; and having Weapon Focus doesn't exactly hurt. Or a Dual Talent Human could use retraining to get Crusader's Flurry at 3 with still-pretty-high STR and then pick up Guided Hand by the time WIS actually really started to get higher. I don't really see the 'viability' problem; I see a 'feat-intensive in early levels, pays interesting dividends' situation that could work for some concepts. I mean, proper archery is how many feats? For an Inquisitor/Monk1, the overall situation means stacked initiative (Inquisitor adds WIS), stacked spell DC, and stacked 'Monk' AC, while allowing for Flurry of Blows.

Dual Talent Human: 14/16STR(+Item), 12DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 16/18WIS(+Item), 8CHA.

1I. (RETRAINED)
2I.
3M. RETRAINED: Weapon Focus / Crusader's Flurry
4I. (19WIS)
5I. Channel Smite
6I.
7I. Guided Hand
8I. (20WIS)

When you think about it, stacked WIS on an Inquisitor is like having bonus feats that grant better initiative, better AC, and way better spell DC, among other things.


Pounce wrote:

Re: Volcano Mystery + Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor - I'm loving this idea.

Ash Cloud + Sneak Attack + Studied Target makes for a 'mundane' character that doesn't have resource issues at low levels (and is self-sufficient with setting up their own sneak attack), while still being able to kick it up a few notches through spells and bane.

During the later levels, you can grab Whirlwind Attack off Sarenrae's Ranger Combat Style, and couple it up with Greater Invisibility + Magma Elemental + Greater Bane to deliver a quick whirl of death as you earth glide through the opposition. Abundant Revelations should ensure that you can stay a Magma Elemental 24/7 by level 12.

Hot.

Somehow I was thinking that sanctified slayer only gets one Sneak attack die... but guess I was wrong. That actually makes the combo pretty awesome.

I was actually planning to use it with Archery but I don't think that will work because the target has to be within your ash cloud to lose DEX to damage. Or am I missing something here?

Also while you can activate the ash cloud as often as you like you still have to spend a standard action to activate it. And it's also rather annoying for your allies.

The earth glide of death move is kinda sweet I must admit...


BadBird wrote:
When you think about it, stacked WIS on an Inquisitor is like having bonus feats that grant better initiative, better AC, and way better spell DC, among other things.

I'll have to see what kind of Save or suck spells the inquisitor list has on over. For guided hand purposes touch based spells would actually be good.

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