Hello,
At higher levels, a battle divine caster can use quicken spells to get ready for a fight, but at lower levels, we can usually only cast one spell before going into the fray - more and the fight might already be over, or heavily tipped one way or the other.
So let's assume you're unbuffed and you suddenly enter a fight. You don't need special abilities to fight them (so no air walk, no invisibility purge needed). Other players are pretty balanced, melee, ranged and spells.What spell would you use at every level ?
Here are my answers but I might be doing something wrong.
Level 1-3: Bless or nothing and wade into the fray
Level 4-5: Bless or Bull's strength (if 2H) or Divine Favor (with Fate's Favored)
Level 6-7: Divine Favor
Level 8: Blessing of Fervor (and now maybe a Quickened Divine Favor with the right trait).
Any favorite of yours ? What do you cast when entering combat?
Divine Favor/Power with Fate's Favored usually outstrips everything else, at least if being 'selfish'. Depending on the build, it's either a major boost to combat power or a massive one. The fact that a Strength Patron Witch gets at least Favor makes it a seriously dangerous Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple.
Yeah, I edited, sorry ^^
However, my understanding was that Divine Favor and Righteous Might stacked, so I could quicken the former and cast the latter on the same round.
Also, there are plenty of ways to grab Heroism on a divine warrior type, which lasts long enough that it can be 'already on' much of the time.
The spell Contagious Zeal also gets honorable mention - you can stack that with quickened Favor for a really massive, partly shared buff.
Badbird, Now that's interesting, how would you grab heroism on a battle oracle (without too much shenanigan) ?
Divine Favor is something you might cast at level 1 - it lasts a minute and has a minimum +1 bonus, +2 with Fate's Favored.
You might also start with a debuff like Burst of Radiance if the enemies are nicely clustered, or Toppling Spiritual Weapon if you're built to take advantage of that, or Rime Holy Ice Weapon if you're built to use that. Basically your list is for a generic character, right?
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I'd typically cast the highest level buff I could, so I'll list my favourite Cleric buff spells at each level.
9th = Winds of Vengeance.
8th = Frightful Aspect
7th = Bestow Grace of the Champion.
6th = Dimensional Blade.
5th = Righteous Might.
4th = Divine Power.
3rd = Deadly Juggernaught.
2nd = Bull's Strength.
1st = Divine Favour.
Badbird, Now that's interesting, how would you grab heroism on a battle oracle (without too much shenanigan) ?
The easiest way is the spirit guide archetype, ancestors spirit.
Also you might cast it well in advance of combat given the 10 minutes/level duration.
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Yeah, Spirit Guide works for Heroism.
That being said... I'm not sure there's a more interesting combat Oracle than a Kindred-Raised Half-Elven Warsighted Ancient Lorekeeper with Lunar/Lore/Nature for a Revelation that lets you use CHA for AC instead of DEX. First, you stack STR and CHA way up, since you don't need DEX or WIS that much. Irrepressible and Noble Scion of War are great for CHA if you have room for them.
Then you cherry-pick arcane spells for your bonus spells - Heroism, Mirror Image, Blade Tutor's Spirit, Shield, Monstrous Physique, Hideous Laughter, Confusion, Wandering Star Motes, ... well you get the idea; endless awesome options. Because you have high spell DC as well as melee power, divine spells like Aura of Doom (10min/level), Archon's Aura and Instrument of Agony that work really well with melee are also great.
Ancient Lorekeeper looks so juicy I could cry. Dunno if my DM will let me use it, though.
If I can take it, however, I'll stick with the battle mystery. The revelations are juicier for a fighter than lore or nature, and I don't really care about CHA to AC if I'm wearing full plate.
But, yeah, yummy Ancient Lorekeeper ^^
If I can take it, however, I'll stick with the battle mystery. The revelations are juicier for a fighter than lore or nature, and I don't really care about CHA to AC if I'm wearing full plate.
The biggest benefit of DEX-to-CHA is that you can do something like:
Kindred-Raised Half-Elf: 16/18STR, 7DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 9WIS, 16/18CHA.
Trait: Irrepressible.
Feat: Noble Scion: of War.
Which means that you've got a stacked DC on spells and effects, a stacked saving throw against charm/compulsion effects, a stacked initiative, and better AC in a mithral breastplate (with no movement penalty) than you would have in full plate with a normal character. Warsighted trades out most Revelations for flexible bonus feats.
But Battle Mystery is also great.
As far as Ancient Lorekeeper and combat buffs goes, special mention for Monstrous Physique: Gargoyle. You get a size bonus to strength, a bonus to AC, two secondary natural attacks even if you use weapons, and fly(30) - and it's minute/level, so even when you first get it at level 8 it will last for 16 minutes with a 5,500 extend metamagic rod. Besides, turning into a gargoyle that looks kind of like you, but with horns and wings, is just +10 Style.
No love for Prayer at 5-6-7?
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My Cleric, when he's going to be melee, and when he's expecting a fight, will often begin combat with this sequence:
Swift) Battle Cry
Move) Drink Enlarge Person with Accelerated Drinker (carried in hand when anticipating combat)
Standard) Divine Favor or Prayer (If it's a big fight and there are party members who benefit from it)
Free) Ready his Longspear for potential AoOs.
He has Fate's Favored, so at 9th level Divine Favor gets him +4/+4.
He has Zest for Battle, which gives him a +1 morale bonus to damage whenever he has a +1 morale bonus to-hit.
(He has Additional Traits, thus all the traits)
Total boost +5 to-hit, +7 to damage (+2 STR puts me at an even bonus) plus going from 1d8 to 2D6 damage
If I'm not the primary melee, then depending on how severe the encounter looks, Battle Cry and Blessing of Fervor, or Battle Cry and Prayer, or just Bless from a wand (to save a use of Battle Cry)
For my melee Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle/Warpriest, I do my best to anticipate combat and cast Shield ahead of time. I have enough 2nd level slots available. Same with Shield of Faith. When combat starts, swift cast Divine Favor using Fervor and standard cast Mirror Image. Or sometimes swift cast Divine Favor and charge. Or sometimes just cast Divine Favor from an Oracle slot (higher caster level, more bonuses). Also a Fate's Favored character, because that trait is ridiculous.
I kind of want to try out an Oracle/Anchorite for the fact that at level 10, they could go:
Swift: Quicken Divine Favor: +4 attack & damage (Luck).
Move: Solar Invocation: +2 attack & damage vs Evil to party (Competence), Flaming weapon(s).
Standard: Contagious Zeal: +2 attack & damage to party (Morale).
+8 attack and damage and free flaming weapon on dual-wield could be pretty mean, especially when handing the party +4s as well.
Divine Favor/Power with Fate's Favored usually outstrips everything else, at least if being 'selfish'. Depending on the build, it's either a major boost to combat power or a massive one. The fact that a Strength Patron Witch gets at least Favor makes it a seriously dangerous Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple.
@BadBird, you tend to mention how Strength Patron Witches make for good Eldritch Knights with their accuracy buffs - how would you say that the new-ish Pact Wizard compares to a Strength Witch? It almost seems like an upgrade if you go into EK from Barbarian, since it gives you both access to patron spells like a witch (but spontaneously), and also gives you access to an Oracle curse at level 5, so rage cycling with the lame curse can be a part of the casting package. Penny for your thoughts?
Well isn't it a lick bonus? And thus effected by that trait I'm blanking on the name of.
I'm kind of wondering if Half-Orc for Sacred Tattoo with Fate's Favored and Divine Favor might be a really kickass battle cleric / battle oracle. I never considered that before.
...Orrr a half-orc paladin with the same spell/trait? Geeze, that actually sounds like an amazing start.
Divine Favor/Power with Fate's Favored usually outstrips everything else, at least if being 'selfish'. Depending on the build, it's either a major boost to combat power or a massive one. The fact that a Strength Patron Witch gets at least Favor makes it a seriously dangerous Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple.@BadBird, you tend to mention how Strength Patron Witches make for good Eldritch Knights with their accuracy buffs - how would you say that the new-ish Pact Wizard compares to a Strength Witch? It almost seems like an upgrade if you go into EK from Barbarian, since it gives you both access to patron spells like a witch (but spontaneously), and also gives you access to an Oracle curse at level 5, so rage cycling with the lame curse can be a part of the casting package. Penny for your thoughts?
Pact Wizard looks pretty awesome for an EK as well; same great Patron buff, different bag of tricks. The fact that you can cross Pact Wizard with Exploiter Wizard or with any School is really nice.
Thanks a lot, this thread has been very helpful to me, with lots of great ideas and advices.
I'll probably pass on the ancient loremaster since my group isn't that much into optimization, and I don't want to overshadow others. I'll go with an half-orc (with Fate's Favored and Sacred Tatoo) and throw a buff every fight before trashing my opponents senseless ^^
Now there's one question left: what are your best long-duration buffs ? If I don't go the heroism route, I don't see that many buffs that last 10mn/level or longer. Most of the 1rd/level and even 1mn/level can't be precast when you're walking out in the open, and they'll run out pretty quick even when dungeon crawling.
So, what ? Remember I'm an oracle, so my spell selection will be slim, even with the half-orc FCB.
Magic vestment ? Greater Magic Weapon ? Magic circle against evil ? Air walk ? Freedom of movement ?
Magic Vestment is great specialky if you use shield/ buckler. Greater magic Weapon is particularly good if you use weapons with abilities (like keen, flaming...). I thing Prot from evil wands are cheap, and can feee a spell slot instead pf magic circle. It's a good spell, but you are short on spells as an oracle. Freedom of movement is great
Shield of faith also helps. Shield of faith is also cheap on wands, and with extend spell (both the rod or the feat) last enough to prebuff before obvious bbeg lairs. I find Barkskin to be better than Ironskin, but if you cant grab barkskin from a domain, Ironskin is a good AC buff to cast before obvious fights
By the price of a +2 ring of protection (8000) you could grab 8 pearls of power (or 16, if you have craft woundreous item, which you should if your GM hasn't realuzed yet that it breaks the game).
That's 9 to 17 casts a day for Shield of Faith. With lvl 12, you can have +4 defkection bonus 108 to 204 minutes a day, or +2 all the time with a ring of prot +2. By the cost of a +4 ring (32000) you coulf have 64 pearls of power that give you 768 minutes of Shiekd of faith, or 12 hours.
The interesting part, howerever, is that you dobt need 768 minutes. Do you could use way less money for that, and spend that money in other things, or spend thise pearls in Divine favor.
Again, 64 pearls of power os probably over kill. The idea with Greater magic weapon /vestment/barkskin (and Bull's Strength and friends) is that they mess with WBL. You become item independient, which is good if your GM is stingy with magic items, and also if he is not and let Magic Wallmart (because you can then spend gold in other things)
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Longterm buffs I like for cleric/oracle are Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Defending Bone (although, you'll cast this and then only get attacked by things with slam attacks). If you can get access to them from your mystery/domain/deity choice, then False Life or Heroism.
Once you're higher level, as gustavo says, you'll be able to get multiple castings of 1st level spells. Even as an Oracle, Runestones of Power are only 2,000 gold for first level. Buy a Lesser Extend Metamagic Rod and a couple of Runestones. You can often guess within 5 minutes if there's going to be a fight. If not, you've got plenty of 1st level spells. You can even more frequently guess within 10-15 minutes if there's going to be a fight. It depends on your campaign style, but for PFS, if you're heading into a dungeon, consider going ahead and buffing. For 1st level spells that you have on a wand, just go ahead and waste a charge if you're afraid there might be something behind a door. Worst case, you're out 15gp.
Be sure to check the Variant Spellcasting for your deity. For Oracles, it's tricky, because Oracle is never listed specifically, so there's debate about whether or not they get the additional spells. But for Cleric, a lot of deities grant spells that aren't normally on the cleric's spell list. Pharasma, for example, grants access to False Life just for worshipping her, regardless of what domains you choose. And not as a domain spell, either, so you can use a normal spell slot.
Defending bone doesn't work agaibst slams, it worls vs slashing and piercing only. And claws and bite count as bludgeoning too, so it's helpful vs hunanoids with swords/spwars/arrows, mostly
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Defending bone doesn't work agaibst slams, it worls vs slashing and piercing only. And claws and bite count as bludgeoning too, so it's helpful vs hunanoids with swords/spwars/arrows, mostly
That was my point in the parenthetical. It's a great spell, but as soon as you start using it, it'll seem like everything has a bludgeoning attack and it's useless.
I don't know how, but I read it in my head as that you used it when expecting slams, so I thought you were thinking that it orivided DR vs Bludgeoning, instead of DR/bludgeoning. So my fault there :(
Defending bone doesn't work agaibst slams, it worls vs slashing and piercing only. And claws and bite count as bludgeoning too, so it's helpful vs hunanoids with swords/spwars/arrows, mostlyThat was my point in the parenthetical. It's a great spell, but as soon as you start using it, it'll seem like everything has a bludgeoning attack and it's useless.
For whatever reason I feel like I've had the same experience. Picked it up via FCB for my Battle spirit Shaman, but then it seemed like most enemies were either creatures with claws and bites (which I did not previously realize counted as bludgeoning), or giants wielding clubs and rocks.
Despite that, I continue to prepare it most days due to the long duration, on the thinking that even a few instances where it works render it superior to another casting of False Life (which I also tend to cast due to the duration).
Overall, I have found it tough to find time tow cast buffs at the beginning of combat rather than doing something different, so I tend to favor buffs with hour/level or 10 min/level durations. Something has to be really good for me to consider a round/level or even min/level buff.
Key excpetions have included Divine Favor (1st) and Blessing of Fervor (4th) (in the absence of haste), as well as Righteous Might (5th) (I use reach tactics, so the size increase is especially good). At early levels I also liked Bull's Strength, but that loses value over time when you get access to static enhancement bonuses to STR.
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If you happen to worship Torag as a cleric, Mighty Strength is a great step up from Bull's Strength, even when you have a belt. The problem is once you get 5th level spells, Invigorating Repose is really enticing for making pulling off a breath of life easier, and you can only have access to 1 Brood of Torag spell at a time.
Those are both very cool spells. Thanks for pointing them out!
Unfortunately I won't be able to use them with this character, as I'm playing a Shoanti shaman whose worship involves ancestor spirits over any sort of conventonal diety, but I'm filing them away for future use.
As False Life was mentioned note that Cleric's of Pharsma can prepare it as a second level spell.
Another great Swift Action Buff for Divine Heavy hitters is the Energy Channel Feat which requires you to have an Elemental Domain.
As False Life was mentioned note that Cleric's of Pharasma can prepare it as a second level spell.
Another great Swift Action Buff for Divine Heavy hitters is the Energy Channel Feat which requires you to have an Elemental Domain.
I always forget about Energy Channel, not least because uses/day is usually a bit of an issue and it's not as strong on a Warpriest. Still, Extra Channel is a thing, and any Cleric, Temple Champion Paladin, Warpriest or Oracle taking War Blessing and some kind of Channel can get a pretty major damage bump.
You also have Channeling Force (not to be confused with Channel Force), in the sort of same ballpark as Energy Channel.
Something I'm contemplating is a Shigenjo Life Oracle that picks up Ki Channel together with Channeling Force (Admonishing Ray makes it quite accessible) and chugs cups of Tea of Transference like it's candy. Unsure what more to add to it, though.
You also have Channeling Force (not to be confused with Channel Force), in the sort of same ballpark as Energy Channel.
Something I'm contemplating is a Shigenjo Life Oracle that picks up Ki Channel together with Channeling Force (Admonishing Ray makes it quite accessible) and chugs cups of Tea of Transference like it's candy. Unsure what more to add to it, though.
Just to point out: Shigenjo -> Tengu -> Hei-Feng -> War Blessing: Water and Air -> Energy Channel: choice of cold or electricity.
Energy Blessing is double the damage, and with a choice of two types...
You also have Channeling Force (not to be confused with Channel Force), in the sort of same ballpark as Energy Channel.
Something I'm contemplating is a Shigenjo Life Oracle that picks up Ki Channel together with Channeling Force (Admonishing Ray makes it quite accessible) and chugs cups of Tea of Transference like it's candy. Unsure what more to add to it, though.
Just to point out: Shigenjo -> Tengu -> Hei-Feng -> War Blessing: Water and Air -> Energy Channel: choice of cold or electricity.
Energy Blessing is double the damage, and with a choice of two types...
Fair, but there's not much that resists force damage, and this has the benefit of infinite channel energy loops (well, for 40 gp / pop) :)
Might even make it sort of worthwhile to brush off the dust of those hardly-touched Bless Equipment feats.
Just to clarify, I'm talking about still being a Shigenjo Oracle and using the tea trick, but taking the feat War Blessing to gain Hei-Feng's elemental blessings and qualify for Energy Channel.
Channeling Force is nice, but I think "+5 at level 9, or +10..." And then I can't settle for 5.
I hear you - I'm a bit frustrated that Ki Channel is locked behind Irori worship, and he doesn't offer any blessings / domains that would work with Energy Channel, as far as I can see?
I otherwise wholeheartedly agree that Energy Channel seems a lot more tempting, if a bit more prone to variation (Basing this off my experience playing a frontliner Oracle before - Holy Ice Weapon was really nice at low-ish levels, but really annoying when fighting outsiders that just happen to be resistant to everything elemental, or undead, etc - and in those cases, Channeling Force seems like a more consistent option).
It's kind of ironic that a Cleric has to deal with taking a specific deity and two elemental Domains to have two types of energy with Elemental Channel, while an Oracle can just take War Blessing with whatever god they like... though I guess Cleric can use War Blessing as well...
Well, now I need to go work-out another Guided Hand 9-ring Hei-Feng Protean Chaos Cleric/Monk that uses War Blessing and Energy Channel with the storm elements.
Well, now I need to go work-out another Guided Hand 9-ring Hei-Feng Protean Chaos Cleric/Monk that uses War Blessing and Energy Channel with the storm elements.
For a split second, I got really hyped thinking about an UnMonk Scaled Fist* (Not Scaled Disciple, I'm no Kobold) + Life Oracle with all the aforementioned stuff, and how it got to use Crusader's Flurry and even Guided Hand!
Then I realized that Irori's favored weapon is Unarmed Strikes, and that Guided Hand would let you use Wisdom to attack rolls. Talk about throwing cold water onto the party.
Still, might be worth tinkering with. Are there any items that let you boost your effective monk level for the purposes of Ki powers?
energy one though can be really shut down by some resistances while force channeling is always going through as it adds to the damage your weapon was already doing.
Nothing comes to mind. The lowest level Ki access as far as I know is Rogue Ki Pool or Ninja at level 2 (Rogue needs Extra Talent), and I'm not sure there's anything for boosing ki/level. I think there's some kind of ki neck slot thing.
energy one though can be really shut down by some resistances while force channeling is always going through as it adds to the damage your weapon was already doing.
Yeah, though having two types of energy is a huge help. Much better much of the time vs. reliable. Sigh. For me, Channel dice x2 feels worth the effort, while half that feels maybe not worth it.
If it was actually double Channel dice on three attacks for a swift action... I don't really know how to finish that sentence. Half the martials I created would be dipping Cleric 3 and stacking CHA.