So I'm working on build #17245896 and I wanted to make one that focuses on grappling. I've never really used grappling before (not on purpose, my characters just never tend to be geared towards it) and while going over some ideas, I've thought about altering the build and would like some input. So the build is currently looking like it'll be MoMS Monk 1/Strangler Brawler X, with my two style feat chains being Grabbing and Snapping Turtle (the reasoning being that it would allow me to have some variety, being a threat through the SA damage from grappling, and giving me increased grapple mobility to make it easier to throw people into Wizard-generated pits or whatever). I was noticing though, that the Shield Champion archetype is compatible with the Strangler. So beyond the obvious question of "Does anyone have any grapple-related suggestions to make me more dangerous?", would it be worth it to sacrifice my CMB bonus from Maneuver Training in favor of having a little more versatility and AC through Shield Champion, or should I just try to get that elsewhere?
Oh, I should add in that my plan was to make it non-lethal focused, getting Sap Adept at level 3 and then Sap Master later.
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The Constable [Cavalier archetype] gets grapple after a charge, which can be handy if you pair it with Dragon Style.
Kraken Style with the Tetori monk archetype would be wrecking face and items.
The Strangler brawler archetype is a psuedo-Tetori build.
look into getting Ghost Spikes on your armor to actually grapple ghosts and incorporeals, if your crazy.
grappling builds fall apart when you fight enemies much larger than yourself- Enlarge Person will be a potion/wand you'll want to get.
The shield champion does allow for ranged bulls rush attempts which would allow you to shove people in pits from range if you couldn't reach them to throw them in.
I have a thread with a lot of build advice on the shield champion. Startoss style is worth looking into ;)
Hmmmmm so the Maneuver Maser archetype has me curious. With the Flurry of Maneuvers class feature, if I'm reading this right, would it allow you to Grapple - Damage twice in one round (assuming you rolled to maintain your grapple) or initiate a grapple and then Grapple - Pin or Damage (assuming you're already next to them)? If so, that would suddenly make the Strangler a whole lot more threatening. If that's the case, I might consider ditching MoMS in favor of Maneuver Master, and then swapping out my styles for Kraken Style, though it would be a shame to miss out on Snapping Turtle Clutch from the Snapping Turtle Style chain.
Actually now that I've gone back and reread it, I think I misunderstood the class. So it would allow me to initiate a grapple and use Grapple - Damage/Pin all in the same round, but in subsequent rounds, maintaining the grapple and using a grapple maneuver is all a standard action. Since the archetype depends upon the ability to full-attack, I think it would only apply on the round in which you initiate the grapple. In that case, it might be more worth it just to stick with MoMS (Grabbing, Kraken, and Snapping Turtle are are really great choices) and then just get Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler ASAP, since my main damage output is going to come from the sneak attack dice, meaning I need to pin/damage with my grapples as often as I can.
Something that would make for a very unorthodox grappling build...
Used in tandem, it should be possible to have a build where you attack with a piercing weapon to initiate grapples, and then perform some combination of tightening the grapple and performing a vicious stabbing. Maybe on a Brutal Pugilist Barbarian.
So now my big concern is getting a high enough CMD to not have my grapple broken every time the grappled creature tries to escape. I'm considering changing my stat allocation to (15-point buy):
STR - 7
DEX - 16
CON - 13
INT - 10
WIS - 16
CHA - 7
And as a human, adding my +2 to either WIS or DEX (probably DEX). Then I'll get Agile Maneuvers at level 1. I'll probably pick up Weapon Finesse and then either get an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists or Slashing Grace (which'll mean I need to get my fists to deal slashing damage), but the way I'm looking at it now, I don't know that I'd actually care that much about my to-hit and to-damage from my unarmed strikes, since my damage would be mostly coming straight from my grapples. Changing the stats in this way would open up Kraken Style (probably just the first feat since I'll be focusing on Pinning/Damaging with grapple in order to get that SA damage from Strangler) as more viable, and it would allow me to benefit more from the Monk's WIS-to-AC/CMD feature, not to mention boosting my Will save.
I have been thinking in terms of using Hamatula Strike to heap on DPR in my builds. My idea is you wear Armor Spikes, so that every extra Grapple also does Armor Spike Damage. Maybe you can work in some Sneak Attack Damage, too.Something that would make for a very unorthodox grappling build...
Used in tandem, it should be possible to have a build where you attack with a piercing weapon to initiate grapples, and then perform some combination of tightening the grapple and performing a vicious stabbing. Maybe on a Brutal Pugilist Barbarian.
It's a nuisance that Hamatula Strike is a +7BAB feat... I was thinking maybe *Brutal Pugilist* and *Living Monolith*, so that you count as a huge creature for the purposes of what you can grapple. Feats are too tight without some Fighter, but that's fine; Unbreakable Fighter is a great Barbarian dip, among other things.
Don't go with low Str on a maneuver based build. It is a trap. You are going to be spending extra feats to make it work which you need to spend on things to make it work already.
I support going Maneuver Master Monk. I am playing on in PFS and so far it is work pretty well even after the nerf to Brawling (that was like a triple nerf for my character). If done correctly you don't need to worry about defenses overly much. Generally you lock down the big bad threat and let the party worry about cleaning up the small fry. You just have to worry about landing your maneuvers.
On that note some suggestions:
Ki Throw and Binding Throw work incredibly well in conjunction with MMM. On my character I use 3 maneuvers: Trip, Dirty Trick and Grapple. He is very Jackie Chan themed and tends to make bad guys (and the occasional DM cry) from being useless. The only real downside is you are only good in fights where there are less enemies than you have party members as you are suppressing yourself by tieing up their big bad. Doesn't matter, it is fun. Just find some way to be beneficial when you are fighting mooks.
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone socketed into a Wayfinder will do wonders for your CMB and CMD. Don't forget that insite bonuses to AC apply to your CDM as well. It is one of the best purchases you can make on a maneuver based character.
Anaconda's Coil. Don't worry about not getting a couple of extra points of Strength out of a Str +4 or +6 Belt. Constrict is too good to pass up.
Charge gives +2 to all attack roles including CMB roles (which are attack roles). Charge, Trip (some DMs let you apply Stunning Fist here, some don't), Ki Throw, Binding Throw, Grapple, Constrict. That is a great start to a combat.
Scott: I think you need to look up a more recent printing of that rule.
Somewhere on this thread of you look up feral gnasher you will see a pretty cool grappling build where you can grapple creatures large size as a goblin and then you can use your teeth to use them as a body bludgeon. :-p
Combine that with a Monk martial arts master and it gets crazy good real fast!!!
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Based off the title, I was REALLY hoping this was a vigilante build that uses the Living Shield talent. Or maybe the body shield feat.
I'm trying to figure one of those out HERE, though Living Shield doesn't come online until the very end of his PFS career.