What is the best way to have a character apply his INT modifier to Damage (is it even possible?)
Alchemists can do it with their bombs.
Elven battle style, so long as you're an elf who likes the traditional elven weapons.
I've had a concept for a Lore Warden using the Elven Battle Style chain (Elven Battle Focus gives INT to damage) kicking around in the back of my head for a while now. At 4th level you can have DEX to hit and INT to damage with an elven branch spear.
The high-INT elf fighter who dumps charisma basically writes itself as "consummate elitist smartypants" anyway. Just preface statements with "Actually" a lot...
Kirin Strike adds x2 Int damage to an attack as a swift action.
There's an old 3.5 feat I think it's called knowledge is power that adds int to atk and dmg rolls
Kirin Strike adds x2 Int damage to an attack as a swift action.
...once you've spent a couple other swift actions to set it up.
There's an old 3.5 feat I think it's called knowledge is power that adds int to atk and dmg rolls
PF not 3.5, it's an arcane discovery, and it adds to CMB and CMD not attack and damage. Knowledge is Power.
There was definitely a 3.5 feat...Hmm I don't know what it was called then...
There was definitely a 3.5 feat...Hmm I don't know what it was called then...
I think you're thinking of Knowledge Devotion. Make a knowledge check against a creature type, get an insight bonus to attack rolls and damage. Solid feat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ah yes that was it, thanks. Sorry been forever since I looked over our 3.5 stuff
There was definitely a 3.5 feat...Hmm I don't know what it was called then...I think you're thinking of Knowledge Devotion. Make a knowledge check against a creature type, get an insight bonus to attack rolls and damage. Solid feat.
Sounds like it was subsumed into Kirin Style.
Sounds like it was subsumed into Kirin Style.There was definitely a 3.5 feat...Hmm I don't know what it was called then...I think you're thinking of Knowledge Devotion. Make a knowledge check against a creature type, get an insight bonus to attack rolls and damage. Solid feat.
Very different mechanics. The insight bonus was based on the result of the knowledge check (up to +5 with a result of 36+), swift actions are not involved, it gave no defensive bonus and it was a stand alone feat not a chain (& didn't need IUS). Oh, and as a devotion it could be taken instead of the Knowledge domain.
Focused Shot lets you add your INT mod to ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow:
Focused Shot
^Linkified
However Focused Shot is a standard action to use, and unfortunately incompatible with most combat styles.
Elven Battle Focus, mentioned above, also has the benefit of 1.5xINT when two-handing, and it has the benefit of working with Two-Weapon Fighting.
One could probably make a pretty awesome Elven Eldritch Knight who wields a curved blade or branched spear, or even two rapiers.
Elven Battle Focus, mentioned above, also has the benefit of 1.5xINT when two-handing, and it has the benefit of working with Two-Weapon Fighting.
One could probably make a pretty awesome Elven Eldritch Knight who wields a curved blade or branched spear, or even two rapiers.
I hadn't realized that you would get the 1.5x multiplier. Hmm...
That's because it's nowhere in the feat at all. You don't get it.
Dot.
That's because it's nowhere in the feat at all. You don't get it.
Is there an FAQ that addresses the case where you're 2-handing something and using an ability that replaces your strength modifier with something else for damage? This seems like something that they could pretty easily say "no" to in the FAQ, but I haven't seen a ruling one way or the other.
I mean, it makes sense for two-handing something to let you swing harder, but not smarter or more dextrously, but the rules don't always make sense and this has been a thing that can happen ever since the Unchained Rogue existed (which can get dex-to-damage on branched spears and curve blades)
That's because it's nowhere in the feat at all. You don't get it.Is there an FAQ that addresses the case where you're 2-handing something and using an ability that replaces your strength modifier with something else for damage? This seems like something that they could pretty easily say "no" to in the FAQ, but I haven't seen a ruling one way or the other.
It's the same as with Unchained Rogue; you're replacing an ability under the same conditions, so 1.5x and 0.5x apply normally. Whenever this isn't the case, it's spelled out explicitly (like with the Agile property). The Unchained Rogue FAQ states this regarding how Finesse Training works; I think it was referenced in a blog somewhere or something but I'm not sure.
|
There are posts talking about the Prehensile Hair Hex and/or the White Haired Witch confirming that they get 1 1/2x INT damage when the hair is the only natural weapon they have. But I believe those abilities are worded as you use your Int as your strength for the hair, not in place of. In the case of White-haired Witch, only for the damage. For Prehensile Hair, you get +Int to-hit and damage (and 10 foot reach!), but it also takes a standard action to activate.
I'd really like to try to make an Elven Battle Style build work, but you're looking at least at 5th level before you can get Int to damage (4th if you're a class with bonus feats), and the first two feats in the style chain aren't terribly useful for most builds. That's a rough path, even for a Magus, to get there. You also never get Int to-hit, so you'll still need a decent Str or Dex anyway. A Lorewarden maneuver build wielding an Elven Branched Spear might make sense. You'd want a decent dex for Combat Reflexes anyway. The bonuses granted from the other style feats would help until you can get Combat Reflexes and Improved whatever maneuver. You won't miss the damage bonus as much at early levels when you're tripping (or disarming or sundering) most everything and things don't have much DR. You have the bonus feats you need to qualify for the whole feat chain by 4th level.
|
|
If you do figure out a build where Int is your primary combat stat, the Artful Dodge feat might be useful. +1 Dodge bonus (when you're the only one threatening), but more importantly, it counts as Dodge for prerequisites, and even more important than that, you can use Int instead of Dex for meeting prerequisites.
I'd really like to try to make an Elven Battle Style build work, but you're looking at least at 5th level before you can get Int to damage.
Getting an Agile weapon isn't really on the table until about then either. But yeah, feats are intensive; the extra AoO from EBT is handy and might replace a need for Combat Reflexes, but Elven Battle Style is pretty much a wash.
Elven curved blade Eldritch Knight would be a possible use; there are lots of ways for an Eldritch Knight to improve accuracy, including with Divine Favor from Pact Wizard or Strength Witch, so focusing on INT could yield a big payoff, even if you spend most feats until 7 (when you get Battle Focus with the first Eldritch Knight bonus feat).
A Warpriest could eventually get away with being a venerable Elf using WIS for attack with Guided Hand and INT for damage with Elven Battle Focus, but the first few levels would be... hmm.
Where can you find elven battle focus?
Check d20pfsrd for things like this. They do credit it at the bottom of the page. But to answer your questions Elven Battle Focus is from Weapon Master's Handbook and Ravener Inquisitor is from Blood of the Beast.
If you can use third party stuff, the Harbinger from Path of War adds Int to attacks and damage.
|
|
I'd really like to try to make an Elven Battle Style build work, but you're looking at least at 5th level before you can get Int to damage.Getting an Agile weapon isn't really on the table until about then either. But yeah, feats are intensive; the extra AoO from EBT is handy and might replace a need for Combat Reflexes, but Elven Battle Style is pretty much a wash.
Elven curved blade Eldritch Knight would be a possible use; there are lots of ways for an Eldritch Knight to improve accuracy, including with Divine Favor from Pact Wizard or Strength Witch, so focusing on INT could yield a big payoff, even if you spend most feats until 7 (when you get Battle Focus with the first Eldritch Knight bonus feat).
A Warpriest could eventually get away with being a venerable Elf using WIS for attack with Guided Hand and INT for damage with Elven Battle Focus, but the first few levels would be... hmm.
I did some quick, basic calculations for a Magus to see how things might work out.
Breakdown 6th level: +4 BAB +5 DEX +1 Arcane Pool (plus Keen) +1 enhancement = +11
Damage: +5 DEX +1 Arcane Pool +1 enhancement = +7
When you're waiting on Int to damage, and Int is not the stat you're using to-hit, you're probably instead going to have a 14 or 16 Dex. So +4 at level 1, +10 at level 6, or +2 and +5 with Spell Combat. That's what makes it painful. Not only do you not get a damage bonus (unless you also boost STR), but you're accuracy compared to an all Dex build is lower on a class that is already 3/4 BAB and taking a penalty on Spell Combat. And accuracy never completely catches up to the Dex-based Magus unless you take Arcane Accuracy and spend Arcane Pool points on making it easier to hit.
Breakdown 6th level: +4 BAB +3 DEX +2 Arcane Pool (buy Keen instead of Agile) +1 enhancement = +10
Damage: +5 INT +2 Arcane Pool +1 enhancement = +8
So a net -1 accuracy for +1 damage, at the cost of being restricted to Elf and three feats. From 1st to 4th level, you'd be -2 accuracy with no damage boost. So that's why I say it's a painful first few levels
IF, and it's a big if, you can get 1 1/2x INT to damage on rounds that you are not using Spell Combat, then it might be worth it. But then it should really be compared to a strength build Magus instead. That would bring damage to +10 (+12 once you get an Int headband, which you would probably have before 6th level).
Don't get me wrong... I have a Magus that started with a 14 Dex and an 18 Int, now at 16 and 20 from items and with an Agile weapon. I did that because it's a Kapenia Dancer archetype mostly using trip via blade lash, has Diminished Spellcasting, and gets Int to AC through Canny Defense. I'd love to be adding Int to damage instead of Dex, or better yet on top of Dex like Kirin Strike. But the cost for Elven Battle Focus is too high, and it wouldn't net me enough of a bonus. For an extra +1 damage, a Magus can just take Martial Focus anytime from 7th level on, but most people would probably agree that's not worth it unless you're using Martial Focus to get to a Weapon Mastery Feat down the line. If 1 feat isn't worth +1 damage, 3 feats definitely isn't.
Eldritch Knight might work out. I'm wondering if Occultist could make use of it as well. A Transmutation Implement Occultist gets a scaling enhancement bonus to one physical stat (that they can change every day!), so that would help offset the cost of needing two stats for melee attacks, and they could boost STR while they are waiting to get Int to damage, so they at least get some bonus to damage at low levels. And they can enhance their weapon similar to a Magus (as a standard, not a swift), and actually get access to all weapon abilities, not just a limited list. So Agile from level 1 or Keen or, best use... Bane for whatever they are fighting. They also get to make use of two-handing a weapon more than Magus if it turns out 1 1/2x INT is a thing.
The best Magus use I can think of would be a Mindblade wielding two psychic rapiers, since you could get full TWF plus Spell Combat plus INT damage.
I think the FAQ on Finesse Training is pretty conclusive regarding how ability-substitution works unless otherwise noted. Either way though, two-handing a curved blade is far better than one-handing a 1d6 weapon, and Agile has its issues, so EBF is still potentially quite handy.
I'm at work and d20pfsrd is blocked here. Thanks for the info.
Try this link. It is less likely to be blocked than d20pfsrd.com.
There was definitely a 3.5 feat...Hmm I don't know what it was called then...I think you're thinking of Knowledge Devotion. Make a knowledge check against a creature type, get an insight bonus to attack rolls and damage. Solid feat.
Love that one. With all the buffs I had on my 7 knowledges, I averaged +4.8 on my bonus. A little more money/ranks and it would be +5, even with die expansion (20 gets +10 on a skill and 1 gets -10).
/cevah