There are at least an infinite number of threads on this board on the legendary martial-caster disparity. A common refrain is "If you want low-magic, go play a game designed for it". The problem is that all the well-supported games are high-fantasy.
I like the idea of a campaign where there are no magic wielding PCs. There are still dragons, demons and sorcerous liches ... just no PC wizards, clerics, etc. (Remember, there is no "wrong fun". This is just a flavor of ice cream I would like to try).
I did run an Iron Heroes campaign for a few sessions. While the philosophy of the rules matched my ideas fairly well, the campaign failed for two reasons:
1) The Iron Heroes rules are in need of a massive rewrite and player options are fairly constrained.
2) I didn't do a good job of getting the players in the right mindset for the game.
There is so much richness in the Pathfinder rules and world, heavily play tested and over-analyzed. Even limited to fighters, rogues, barbarians, cavaliers, monks and all their archetypes there is an ability to customize that Iron Heroes never had (7 classes, three of which were useless).
If anyone has run a campaign like this, I would love to hear about your particular house rules and how it went.
Thanks to some of the discussions on these boards, I think you can make an IronFinder without major surgery.
Healing: Adopt the heroic healing from Iron Heroes. [fuzzy memory] Characters have a reserve of hit points based on CON which can be moved into normal HP out of combat and recover quickly with rest [/fuzzy memory]. This isn't "realistic", but it is heroic; it is analogous to John McLain pulling glass out of his feet and then being ready to keep kicking ass.
Magic Items, particularly the Big 6: Use Kolokotroni and Brodiggan Gale's idea for avoiding the dependence on magic items. Special magic items which help deal with the lack of flying/teleporting etc will still exist, but should feel special.
Damage Reduction: Replace DR/magic with DR/<silver, cold iron, adamantine> as deemed appropriate.
Combat Manouvers: I would be inclined to make these more rewarding in order for martials to have more interesting options in combat. I don't have a firm suggestion (easier feat acquisition?), so I consider this optional for now.
It seems like with those changes a party would be CR equivalent to a Pathfinder Society Party until level 5. Maybe CR-1 levels 5 to 10. After that, it probably gets bigger.
All suggestions and experiences welcome.
How do they deal with condition removal and things like flight?
Particularly flight on creatures like Devils who can fly (the Erinyes is what I'm thinking of in particular), so your rinky dink bow shots do even less when you're not a dedicated archer.
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Dot
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I'm tempted to say: When magic is outlawed, only outlaws will have magic.
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I think it would be better to use the automatic bonus progression and background skills from Pathfinder Unchained.
I bought Unchained for the monk, but didn't read that section. I'll have to look at it. The better the house rules play with Hero Lab, the easier it will be. Thank you!
@Sundakan, As for flying creatures, I think that is one reason why things get particularly challenging from 10th level onward. In a perfect game, the players would come up with innovative ideas and the GM would be flexible on the rules in support of innovation. The GM could flavor the setting with opportunities for the players to set ambushes, entangle wings or temporarily acquire flying allies.
@SilvercatMoonpaw, thanks for the extra reading ideas. I am always hesitant to switch to a new rule system, since it feels easier to convince players to try "Pathfinder with modifications" than "Read this 300 page book and show up Tuesday with characters". It took me several years to 'unlearn' AD&D and 3rd Ed so I could really feel comfortable with Pathfinder. But, if the new rules are quality and a better fit, I will consider shifting.
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I'm tempted to say: When magic is outlawed, only outlaws will have magic.
Ha!
If I ever tried to publish IronFinder as a 3PP, that would be the subtitle.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd also suggest looking at the Scaling Magic Items rules in Unchained, as well as the Limited Spellcasting rules to help martials stay alive. I also recommend combining multiple magic ileffects into a single item. Perhaps its just me but I think a low-magic high-fantasy setting is better served by single, powerful items rather than mounds of weak ones.
I'm tempted to say: When magic is outlawed, only outlaws will have magic.
That's pretty much your standard Conan or Tarzan story formula.
Combat Manouvers: I would be inclined to make these more rewarding in order for martials to have more interesting options in combat. I don't have a firm suggestion (easier feat acquisition?), so I consider this optional for now.Only provoke on a failed check.
This is my default as well.
Here's another possible suggestion:
All spells that did not previously grant a saving throw now grant a saving throw. Rather than a fortitude, reflex, or will saving throw, this new saving throw is typless. The character does not add in any ability score modifiers, but they still add other relevant bonuses they may have (such as against illusions). (This way spells that did not originally have a saving throw are still harder to save against, but they are overall weaker).
Spells that deal damage (Shocking Grasp) deal half damage on a succesful save.Spells that have a debuff effect (including spells that deal damage as above) have their secondary effect negated. Spells that do not deal damage or give the target a condition (darkness) are negated.
You might want a few exceptions to the "no magic" rule- supernatural abilities, SLAs of at most first-level spells, that sort of thing.