What other Hybrid classes would you like to see?


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ShroudedInLight wrote:

Hey guys I have been working on the Zealot (Barb+Paladin)

However, I do not speak designer so I wanted to crowd source it. I've got a skeleton so far...

** spoiler omitted **...

I'll take a look at this, work some of my "magic," and see what I can do to make it better. Stand by...


(In reply to Nitro) Exactly, I am worried about keeping the Zealot within the appropriate power level for a martial character without being too confusing. I was thinking that Righteous Fury would provide you with some static bonuses but those would improve vs evil targets? I'm not sure since it is hard to make such an ability interesting.

I do like the ability having a conditional activation, but you have to be careful with conditional abilities otherwise you end up having a Ranger...and no one plays the ranger anymore because of his major kit abilities being too specific in comparison to other equally powerful characters.

I was really upset that I could not find any "avenging angels" in the d20 beastiary, I trawled through all of the Azata's and the Angels and none of them really spoke to me, since I am thinking the Zealot would be limited to a CG alignment.

Something interesting would be if Righteous Fury grew stronger whenever you continued to harm an enemy. Wait a second, I have an idea.

What if, for Righteous Fury, the bonus is a flat +1 sacred bonus to hit and damage (another +1 at 5 and every 5 levels after to a max of +5 at 20). However, whenever you successfully damage an evil enemy the bonus increases by +1 until the end of your next turn. If you successfully damage an evil enemy again the next turn, however, the bonus you have is extended an additional round, and you gain another bonus +1 to hit and damage. So at the end of the second consequtive round that you damage an evil creature you are looking at +3 to hit and +3 to damage. The bonuses continue to scale and you can increase the damage and hit chance by a number equal to your charisma modifer? If you miss, the stacks fall off and the damage and hit bonuses reset back to the base level? Or maybe just one stack falls off...yeah, just one stack per round in which you cannot damage an evil enemy.

That gives the class a more berserk feeling, and I like it, forcing them to dive into combat for their god or else lose his divine might.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Add me to the Alchemist/Gunslinger pile...

My specific preference would be toss out mutagen and grit, make extracts something you use to tart up your bullets and/or throw as bomb instead of drinking, with bombs remaining to let me run a pistol/grenade specialist. Change the extract list to give you cloudkill, stinking cloud, maybe fireball as hand-thrown deliverable spells.

A Monk/Oracle blend also has some appeal.

Grand Lodge

ShroudedInLight wrote:
<Excellent Ideas>

Don't worry too much about power. Just try to keep it above a Fighter and below a Magus. If it's fun and not too crippling to play, people will play it.

Static bonuses could be nice, but so could, for instance, a bonus that you get depending on which Domain you choose to follow? Earth gives you acid damage and a scaling boost to CMD, and the ability to strike open the very earth eventually, while Artifice makes you super good at getting through AC, DR and Hardness from metallic sources, eventually allowing you to animate your armour or something.

Conditional activation isn't such a problem here because most things you'll be fighting will be evil and you just can't play a Paladin in a non-good campaign anyway (sit DOWN Gray Paladin). You'd still have the option to pay a bunch of class-resource to activate it at-will anyway.

I'd say think very carefully about restricting alignments. I agree that the Paladin should be Lawful Good, but I hate that the Barbarian is nonlawful-only (Beowulf would disapprove). This class should definitely be restricted to Good, but I'm not sure about Chaotic Good.

That's rather interesting... hmmm... unfortunately powering-up mechanics are things that D&D-like styles aren't too fond of, because encounters tend to be designed with the premise that your party is weaker at the end of it. That's why you can't really build Yang Xiao Long (though you can approximate with a mix of ID Rager and Brawler), or The Incredible Hulk (Brutes need NOT apply). However, this one actually punishes you for missing, and you're still pretty reliant on physical weaponry, so it definitely could work with a bit of testing.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of alignment restrictions either (honestly I sort of hope they stop being a thing soon) but if you are combining two of the only classes with Alignment restrictions I figuring meeting in the middle might be the best bet.

I think avoiding domains might be smart, not because your idea is bad Nitro, but because there are so damn many of them. Unless you copied the Warpriest and made a completely different list, I'm afraid the class would drown in options.

I agree that in DnD style games you are meant to be weaker at the end of the encounter. However, if the bonuses wore off at the end of the encounter then the Zealot becomes more dangerous the longer the encounter continues while still being weaker at the end of the fight. He/she will have used resources to maintain Divine Fury (which will probably have limited uses per day, maybe based on Barbarian scaling with Cha instead of con?), uses of Relentless Wrath to stay conscious, and etc

Still, a stacking mechanic is complicated, however there is precedent. Hammer the Gap works in a similar manner, even if it only lasts during one turn.

Grand Lodge

ShroudedInLight wrote:
Good Points.

I do see what you mean. Still, you'd be restricting them to being Good in any case... maybe keep them non-lawful good? Barbarians don't HAVE to be chaotic, after all.

Hmmm... you could use the Bloodrager method, and only adapt a few domains to the class. Obviously you'd need War and Strength, but Evil and Trickery would be less appropriate. I'd be willing to help with any of this, by the way! I love your ideas for the class.

That's all very true, but you'd have to be careful with which villains you choose. Ones that rely on the party getting weaker as the battle goes on would obviously be obliterated by the Zealot, whereas those that rely on first-round sweep attacks would have a marked advantage.

Cha instead of Con really works! You'd be less tanky, but that's not such a bad thing given that you can probably self-heal. (Ooo, maybe one restriction on the Divine Fury would be that you can't actually heal anyone while under its effects? Either that or you need to spend it twice to do so.)

It is complicated, and it'd need to be tested a bit, but it could well work!

Hmm, I've had an idea, if you're up for suggestions. Maybe he has a Channel-Energy-like effect that, when Furious, gives bonuses to attack and move speed rather than healing? You're still a Paladin after all, so you maybe don't want to focus everything on striking like a Barbarian.


an inquisitor paladin mix for hunting down and unleashing the wrath of god's holy justice upon transgressors and meeting out punishment to those who are straying from the path. you could call him or her a holy or divine judicator.


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

For the Barbarian/Paladin hybrid and its alignment conflict:

The paladin has abilities that require the character to be good and oppose evil.

No class with a rage-like ability since the barbarian itself has had any alignment restrictions.

You can probably get by with "Any Good" for this class.


I am partial to the idea of a Bard/Monk myself.

A wandering sage that tells proverbs to unlearned villagers one day and advises a King in the matters of the metaphysical the next. The spread of knowledge is their trade, knowledge within and without.

They would play as something of a more skilled and supportive Monk, or a Bard who trades spells for Ki and martial arts. I'm not sure which.


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Fighter/Summoner, a warrior who slowly gains monstrous abilities but has them all the time rather than needing to spend points/rage/wildshape/cast spells.


^Would that be a Fighter/Synthesist Summoner (apply Evolutions to yourself)?


For my Barbarian Paladin, the Lockheart, I flavor it as channeling the inner beast and keeping it tightly under control. Look to Mace Windu with his mastery of his lightsaber form as an example. It's sort've split personality, but they use the inner strength, and force their will and self-control upon it.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Would that be a Fighter/Synthesist Summoner (apply Evolutions to yourself)?

Yes, but the hybrid class line generally doesn't mention archetypes (that would make things a lot more complicated).


I would like to see a Summoner/Vigilante. Perhaps you are a person who shares a soul and consciousnes with an extraplanar being, resulting in two "bodies" that you swap between. Then again, I've been craving for a "balanced" rework of the Synthesist Summoner ever since the release of Unchained.

A combination between Fighter and (Aether) Kineticist would be a blast. I've always wanted to have a character who could wield a sword with a telekinetic grip.

For a more out-there idea, Summoner/Cavalier who "summons" mobs of allies. Maybe they have damage "spells" that call down support fire from archer minions just off the map. Or calling in a group of mooks to dogpile a monster, allowing you to make a hands free grapple at range. Provide flanks to allies, maybe have an attack roll counterpart to the Bodyguard feat, who knows? Naturally, the class would be almost completely mundane in terms of actual magical power.


Rosc wrote:
I would like to see a Summoner/Vigilante. Perhaps you are a person who shares a soul and consciousnes with an extraplanar being, resulting in two "bodies" that you swap between. Then again, I've been craving for a "balanced" rework of the Synthesist Summoner ever since the release of Unchained.

I've been on the fence about having a hybrid class using the Vigilante, because the archetypes basically do that already. All vigilante identity specialisations essentially mimic a base class.

Agathiel/Wildsoul: Druid
Brute: Barbarian
Cabalist: Witch
Experimenter: Alchemist
Avenger/Faceless Enforcer: Fighter
Gunmaster: Gunslinger
Hangman/Stalker: Rogue
Harvester: Bard... mostly for the support abilities
Magical Child: Summoner
Mounted Fury: Cavalier
Psychometrist: Occultist
Serial Killer: Slayer
Teisatsu: Ninja
Warlock: Magus
Zealot: Inquisitor

What you're asking for could basically be another Summoner-like identity, but that uses the eidolon mecanics instead of the spellcasting.


JiCi wrote:


Magical Child: Summoner

I politely disagree on that one. Caster with martial weapons. No SLA. No Evolution points. Familiar archetypes instead of base Eidolon types. To me, they have a difference in pet/master dynamic that's night and day.

The Exchange

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

But I digress.. the one Monk Hybrid I'd like to see would give us an official option for one of the already supremely possible cross class options people often take already. Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

But I digress.. the one Monk Hybrid I'd like to see would give us an official option for one of the already supremely possible cross class options people often take already. Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Sacred Fist says hi.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Since the Sacred Fist Warpriest kind of does this, how about a Monk/Druid? The whole "martial artist who is completely in tune with nature" archetype doesn't seem to be represented in Pathfinder.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rosc wrote:
Then again, I've been craving for a "balanced" rework of the Synthesist Summoner ever since the release of Unchained.

Umm... There is no restriction on the Unchained summoner from taking the synthesist archetype (or from using the additional evolutions from Ultimate Magic, for that matter*): "...with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace." The changes to the Unchained summoner were all in the spell list and tying the eidolon to specific outsider types (and changing the Pounce evolution).

*- it just calls for a review to make sure that the options are compatible; since the evolutions (other than Pounce) remained exactly the same (and Pounce just costs more and has a level restriction in the Unchained version), they work perfectly fine with the Unchained eidolons


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What about a monk/barbarian that functions as an "Antibarbarian"? Basically, a martial that instead of flying into fits of superhuman rage, enters a kind of zen trance that allows him to shrug off emotional effects and pull of "bullet time" esq fighting moves?

Grand Lodge

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Sacred Fist says hi.

Followed swiftly by "iii-YAAA!"


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Rosc wrote:
Then again, I've been craving for a "balanced" rework of the Synthesist Summoner ever since the release of Unchained.

Umm... There is no restriction on the Unchained summoner from taking the synthesist archetype (or from using the additional evolutions from Ultimate Magic, for that matter*): "...with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace." The changes to the Unchained summoner were all in the spell list and tying the eidolon to specific outsider types (and changing the Pounce evolution).

*- it just calls for a review to make sure that the options are compatible; since the evolutions (other than Pounce) remained exactly the same (and Pounce just costs more and has a level restriction in the Unchained version), they work perfectly fine with the Unchained eidolons

True, but the archetype is illegal for PFS either way, and despite being a notabls downgrade compared to vanilla, it cheats in certain areas (hit loints, attributes) so home GMs are more likely to ban it.

I love bestial characters with physical mutations. Thankfully, beastmorph alchemists kind of scratch that itch.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

{. . .}

To be fair to those in a prior time period, 5 years ago(*) it was harder to make a good Monk build.

(*)More accurately, 6 years ago, before Ultimate Combat came out, or especially 7 years ago, before the Advanced Players' Guide came out -- but got to give some slack time for the new archetypes to sink in.

* * * * * * * *

The mention of Vigilante hybrids reminds me that I'd like to see a reload of the option to build your own hybrids by Variant Multiclassing. Variant Multiclassing is a good idea, but now that it has been out, it needs a rework:

  • A lot of new classes have come out since then (including Vigilante), and not been added to it.
  • Some of the existing VMC options are good, but some of them are REALLY BAD (Gunslinger and Witch).
  • Needs support for VMC into archetypes(*) of classes.
  • Needs option to VMC back into your own class for additional benefits (usually VMC into another archetype of the same class).
  • Whenever a new class is released, a VMC option should be released for it (also should be done for archetypes(*)).
(*)Which points out that a reload of class design is in order, to enable consolidation of a lot of archetypes into choices of Talents/etc.


The alchemist gunslinger might be able to fire gasses, like fog cloud, stinking cloud, and cloudkill.

They would have a special shotgun that they can only load with vials of extracts and bombs. Fast reload and both barrels would be feats for that class. At first level they would have one shot the first round, another the next round, then they could reload or make use of the mutagen they took while firing the second shot.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Since the Sacred Fist Warpriest kind of does this, how about a Monk/Druid? The whole "martial artist who is completely in tune with nature" archetype doesn't seem to be represented in Pathfinder.

The Wild Child archetype for the Brawler?

MMCJawa wrote:
What about a monk/barbarian that functions as an "Antibarbarian"? Basically, a martial that instead of flying into fits of superhuman rage, enters a kind of zen trance that allows him to shrug off emotional effects and pull of "bullet time" esq fighting moves?

Huh... sounds more like a Brawler archetype than a class.

Goth Guru wrote:

The alchemist gunslinger might be able to fire gasses, like fog cloud, stinking cloud, and cloudkill.

They would have a special shotgun that they can only load with vials of extracts and bombs. Fast reload and both barrels would be feats for that class. At first level they would have one shot the first round, another the next round, then they could reload or make use of the mutagen they took while firing the second shot.

Yes! Yes! Please!

Or at least have an alchemist archetype focused on firearms. Serisouly, infusing a bullet with a bomb sounds like a no-brainer here.

The Exchange

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

But I digress.. the one Monk Hybrid I'd like to see would give us an official option for one of the already supremely possible cross class options people often take already. Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Sacred Fist says hi.

Sure... If you want to be a lesser version of the cleric, and then be combined with a lesser version of the monk. You start off with reduced channeling abilities, no ability to spontaneously cast heals (without having to sacrifice Channels), and slower spell level progression, then you add in just a few Monk abilities (AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Ki points).

Yes a Sacred Fist War Priest might have a s vaguely similar feel to a Monk/Cleric Hybrid, but so would cross-classing a Monk/Cleric, which I'd probably prefer over that mess. But this thread is suppose to be about what actual hybrid class would you like to see. Not what Hybrid class do you feel doesn't have an archetype that is sorta close to what you're describing!

Dark Archive

I would like to see the following:
fighter/occultist
wizard/mesmerist
oracle/sorcerer
gunslinger/bard
monk/kineticist
ranger/monk
and
barbarian/fighter


I was thinking a cavalier/summoner for using outsiders/whatever in mounted combat.

Pretty much any martial/spellcaster combo will have me take a second look. Perhaps a fighter/psychic or similar for that old psychic warrior feel.

Grand Lodge

Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

But I digress.. the one Monk Hybrid I'd like to see would give us an official option for one of the already supremely possible cross class options people often take already. Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Sacred Fist says hi.

Sure... If you want to be a lesser version of the cleric, and then be combined with a lesser version of the monk. You start off with reduced channeling abilities, no ability to spontaneously cast heals (without having to sacrifice Channels), and slower spell level progression, then you add in just a few Monk abilities (AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Ki points).

Yes a Sacred Fist War Priest might have a s vaguely similar feel to a Monk/Cleric Hybrid, but so would cross-classing a Monk/Cleric, which I'd probably prefer over that mess. But this thread is suppose to be about what actual hybrid class would you like to see. Not what Hybrid class do you feel doesn't have an archetype that is sorta close to what you're describing!

A hybrid always takes reduced versions of both classes. The Investigator doesn't get Bombs or Sneak Attack, the Brawler doesn't get a full Flurry... what's important is what they bring to the table as a fusion, not a gestalt. The Sacred Fist replaces the "Fighter" part of Fighter/Cleric with "Monk", and is as much a hybrid as it is an archetype. They just felt that the Warpriest brought enough to the (proverbial AND literal) table that the basic chassis suited a Monk/Cleric as well as a Fighter/Cleric.


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ulgulanoth wrote:
fighter/occultist

The new Panoplies rules for Occultists in Psychic Anthology let you play a full BAB occultist without even having to take an archetype. That should more or less get you what you want.

Dark Archive

PossibleCabbage wrote:
ulgulanoth wrote:
fighter/occultist
The new Panoplies rules for Occultists in Psychic Anthology let you play a full BAB occultist without even having to take an archetype. That should more or less get you what you want.

I didn't know that was a thing... that pretty much hits the itch funnily enough


ulgulanoth wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
ulgulanoth wrote:
fighter/occultist
The new Panoplies rules for Occultists in Psychic Anthology let you play a full BAB occultist without even having to take an archetype. That should more or less get you what you want.
I didn't know that was a thing... that pretty much hits the itch funnily enough

To be fair, it is a very new thing.

The Exchange

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Nitro~Nina wrote:
A hybrid always takes reduced versions of both classes. The Investigator doesn't get Bombs or Sneak Attack, the Brawler doesn't get a full Flurry... what's important is what they bring to the table as a fusion, not a gestalt. The Sacred Fist replaces the "Fighter" part of Fighter/Cleric with "Monk", and is as much a hybrid as it is an archetype. They just felt that the Warpriest...

I understand that a hybrid is always going to be lesser versions of the primary classes, otherwise you end up with a lvl 40 character with 1/2HD. However I (and I may be the only one that feels this way) don't feel that starting with another hybrid and simply swapping out a few low level abilities creates the same kind of effect you would get by doing a new hybrid of those two specific classes. And the whole 'Forti-vasion' of blessed/miraculous fortitude are the prime example, creating a new style of evasion that works for fortitude saves seems far more of a fighter/monk than it does a Monk/Cleric.

If you Combine the two classes directly instead of trying to apply a monk template to a Warpriest. You can come up with totally different things. Maybe this hybrid spends Ki to Channel Positive. Or can deliver heals at 5' range instead of touch as long as they maintain 1 ki point (or heals at close range spending a Ki point). Maybe it gives up Fast Movement for Fast Healing Aura for any ally within 10'.

I just feel there are so many more interesting possibilities that would be available to a custom hybrid (and any associated Archetypes) than is available by a specific archetype of another hybrid that kinda/sorta fills that role.

Grand Lodge

Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Nitro~Nina wrote:
A hybrid always takes reduced versions of both classes. The Investigator doesn't get Bombs or Sneak Attack, the Brawler doesn't get a full Flurry... what's important is what they bring to the table as a fusion, not a gestalt. The Sacred Fist replaces the "Fighter" part of Fighter/Cleric with "Monk", and is as much a hybrid as it is an archetype. They just felt that the Warpriest...

I understand that a hybrid is always going to be lesser versions of the primary classes, otherwise you end up with a lvl 40 character with 1/2HD. However I (and I may be the only one that feels this way) don't feel that starting with another hybrid and simply swapping out a few low level abilities creates the same kind of effect you would get by doing a new hybrid of those two specific classes. And the whole 'Forti-vasion' of blessed/miraculous fortitude are the prime example, creating a new style of evasion that works for fortitude saves seems far more of a fighter/monk than it does a Monk/Cleric.

If you Combine the two classes directly instead of trying to apply a monk template to a Warpriest. You can come up with totally different things. Maybe this hybrid spends Ki to Channel Positive. Or can deliver heals at 5' range instead of touch as long as they maintain 1 ki point (or heals at close range spending a Ki point). Maybe it gives up Fast Movement for Fast Healing Aura for any ally within 10'.

I just feel there are so many more interesting possibilities that would be available to a custom hybrid (and any associated Archetypes) than is available by a specific archetype of another hybrid that kinda/sorta fills that role.

Actually, y'know what, that's an exceptionally good point. I rather concur, actually.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:

Wow, I'm both impressed there are so many requested combinations of Monk+Other. I find too many people that don't see the potential in the lowly discipline of the monk. Some are too focused on big massive weapons, others require flashy spells, and finally some simply don't get that just because someone they played with 5 years ago built a sub-par monk doesn't mean that all monk builds are going to be weak.

But I digress.. the one Monk Hybrid I'd like to see would give us an official option for one of the already supremely possible cross class options people often take already. Where is our Monk/Cleric Hybrid? The synergies between these two are already very strong and even the lives of training discipline and devotion ally very closely.

Sacred Fist says hi.

Sure... If you want to be a lesser version of the cleric, and then be combined with a lesser version of the monk. You start off with reduced channeling abilities, no ability to spontaneously cast heals (without having to sacrifice Channels), and slower spell level progression, then you add in just a few Monk abilities (AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Ki points).

Yes a Sacred Fist War Priest might have a s vaguely similar feel to a Monk/Cleric Hybrid, but so would cross-classing a Monk/Cleric, which I'd probably prefer over that mess. But this thread is suppose to be about what actual hybrid class would you like to see. Not what Hybrid class do you feel doesn't have an archetype that is sorta close to what you're describing!

You can't take a Full Spellcaster, combine it with a Non-Spellcaster, and expect it to still be a Full Spellcaster. That's just axiomatic.

If anything, the Sacred Fist is more like a Fighter/Cleric/Monk, which is akin to Man/Bear/Pig, which we all know is a bunch of hooey. (Unless you're Al Gore, and you're super duper serial about it being a threat to the world.)

But when a potential hybrid class can be easily covered through archetypes, then it's not really worth requesting, in the same vein that it's not worth making a FAQ when your GM can just houserule it for you.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Alchemist/Monk- a martial master that can infuse his punches with explosive power.

Spiritualist/Witch- rewarded for being devoted to her Patron, her familiar has gained the ability to defend his mistress both physically and mentally.

Rogue/Druid- a recluse that uses his wiles and attunement with the Green, to protect his lands.


How about a Paladin/Witch hybrid class?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Morgan Champion wrote:
How about a Paladin/Witch hybrid class?

3/4 BAB, 6/9 casting, "positive" hexes in place of mercies, Int to saves and smite?


SmiloDan wrote:
3/4 BAB, 6/9 casting, "positive" hexes in place of mercies, Int to saves and smite?

Heh, I imagined a Paladin/Witch as the Hero class, a martial who has a patron who has granted them at-will supernatural powers (not hexes but still at-will powers) and a familiar sidekick.


Selvaxri wrote:

Alchemist/Monk- a martial master that can infuse his punches with explosive power.

Spiritualist/Witch- rewarded for being devoted to her Patron, her familiar has gained the ability to defend his mistress both physically and mentally.

Rogue/Druid- a recluse that uses his wiles and attunement with the Green, to protect his lands.

Rogue Druids are surprisingly stealth gods. Wild shape plus stealth can help you infiltrate anywhere, and obscuring mist is always a good cover.


Personally, I want to see what an actual cleric/rogue or paladin/rogue hybrid would look like. I GUESS the Inquisitor sort of fills that role, but it feels... Well, like it doesn't entirely fit. I can't help but imagine a roguish cleric that gets silence and darkness themed spells as spontaneous casts instead of CLW, gets trapfinding, gets 6 Skill Points a level, and generally is focused around stealth and spellcasting.

Or how about a druid/fighter mix? Specifically, a shapeshifting-focused character with high BAB, no spellcasting involved.

Witch/Fighter, a debuffer (akin to 3.5's hexblade) that follows up with martial combat. Makes enemies lose AC and fall prone and stuff, perhaps using its swift actions at later levels to use its hexes, then unleashes full attacks. 4th level spellcasting?

Paladin/Barbarian as being worked on above has my attention.

Alchemist/Druid - A 9th level spellcaster that works through herbology and potions rather than through actual spellcasting. Effectively becomes another extract spellcaster. Can use metal weapons and armor, but only has light armor proficiency to start. Doesn't get mutagen, doesn't get wildshape, but counts as a divine caster with extracts. Gets special abilities relating to nature and stuff. Gets an animal companion still? Basically, this should field like a woodsy alchemist from medieval times, not a Victorian era madman.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

An alchemist/druid could also feel like a witchdoctor or something, using amulets and elixirs and maybe even voodoo dolls or something.

I can see them also gaining a mutagenic wildshape ability, but then it might need to be a 1/2 BAB class if it is still a 9 level caster.

The Exchange

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You can't take a Full Spellcaster, combine it with a Non-Spellcaster, and expect it to still be a Full Spellcaster. That's just axiomatic.

If anything, the Sacred Fist is more like a Fighter/Cleric/Monk, which is akin to Man/Bear/Pig, which we all know is a bunch of hooey. (Unless you're Al Gore, and you're super duper serial about it being a threat to the world.)

But when a potential hybrid class can be easily covered through archetypes, then it's not really worth requesting, in the same vein that it's not worth making a FAQ when your GM can just houserule it for you.

First, who said anything about a Cleric Monk hybrid that was a full spell caster?

Second it's all but impossible to pick two classes that aren't either polar opposites (Assassin/Paladin) and not be able to name at least one archetype of some class that isn't close to what's being requested. Just because a similar archetype exists doesn't it wouldn't be nice to get an actual hybrid.

Last I knew this was a random forum asking what people would like to see, not a Poll so Paizo can decide what to put out next.

I would like a Cleric/Monk, I'm sorry you feel that it would be a complete waste of anyone's time to even read my posts because you feel the Sacred Fist Warpriest is more than anyone should possibly want since it's Cleric/Monk AND Fighter, so that's obviously better!

Clearly this entire thread should just be moved to house rules and ignored since it's not going to actually get a new class created, and anyone that actually wants to create a new hybrid just needs to talk to their GM, not visit this thread!


SmiloDan wrote:

An alchemist/druid could also feel like a witchdoctor or something, using amulets and elixirs and maybe even voodoo dolls or something.

I can see them also gaining a mutagenic wildshape ability, but then it might need to be a 1/2 BAB class if it is still a 9 level caster.

I could see a witch doctor being an archetype for it, but I feel like the base version of the class would be a straightforward extract-based nature caster with 9 spell levels and the ability to do cool things with potions like the alchemist does. They'd probably get some alchemist discoveries and some divine/nature themed discoveries as well.

Also, I imagine a witch doctor archetype would apply the mutagenic wildshape to their animal companion instead of themselves. Can you imagine this guy channeling the power of nature into their animal companion and turning it into a hulking monstrosity of war? (Alternatively, maybe they have a Familiar with the mauler archetype that also gets affected by that mutagenic wildshape stuff and has more HP than normal familiars.)


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Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You can't take a Full Spellcaster, combine it with a Non-Spellcaster, and expect it to still be a Full Spellcaster. That's just axiomatic.

If anything, the Sacred Fist is more like a Fighter/Cleric/Monk, which is akin to Man/Bear/Pig, which we all know is a bunch of hooey. (Unless you're Al Gore, and you're super duper serial about it being a threat to the world.)

But when a potential hybrid class can be easily covered through archetypes, then it's not really worth requesting, in the same vein that it's not worth making a FAQ when your GM can just houserule it for you.

First, who said anything about a Cleric Monk hybrid that was a full spell caster?

Second it's all but impossible to pick two classes that aren't either polar opposites (Assassin/Paladin) and not be able to name at least one archetype of some class that isn't close to what's being requested. Just because a similar archetype exists doesn't it wouldn't be nice to get an actual hybrid.

Last I knew this was a random forum asking what people would like to see, not a Poll so Paizo can decide what to put out next.

I would like a Cleric/Monk, I'm sorry you feel that it would be a complete waste of anyone's time to even read my posts because you feel the Sacred Fist Warpriest is more than anyone should possibly want since it's Cleric/Monk AND Fighter, so that's obviously better!

Clearly this entire thread should just be moved to house rules and ignored since it's not going to actually get a new class created, and anyone that actually wants to create a new hybrid just needs to talk to their GM, not visit this thread!

That's implied when you sit there and say it's "worse than a Cleric." Full spellcasting is the most powerful feature in the game, and is perhaps the biggest (and perhaps only) way in that a Warpriest is worse than a Cleric. There's Domains V.S. Blessings, but Blessings can offer some unique benefits that Domains can't, spells and all, so it's a fair enough trade. There's Channel Energy, but most people agree it's a lackluster feature.

Even if you did pick those two opposites, the odds of being able to make them work in conjunction is damn near impossible without sacrificing crucial features between both classes. Also, I don't think Hybrid classes were originally designed to function with Prestige Classes, so it's not exactly a good parallel.

Unfortunately, even with a random forum thread that's dedicated to getting a public opinion, that's all it is, and most likely is all it will amount to be. Whether Paizo decides to take an interest in any of the suggestions or not is not only irrelevant, but highly unlikely. That's just the way the thread is. This wasn't a thread that was created by a Paizo developer (or even the PDT) to warrant brainstorming ideas (though if it was, I imagine it'd be more of a playtest thread than a pre-playtest thread, where they want ideas for rulebooks).

You're being overly dramatic about my post and stating things that I clearly never said or implied. I never said it's a waste of time to read your posts (if I did, then I wouldn't be responding to them). I never said that the thread should be ignored (if I did, not only would such a post not be here, but so wouldn't any of my other posts). Exaggerating things that I've said simply because I disagree with the value of a Cleric/Monk hybrid class isn't exactly a mature way to discuss said value or warranty of such an article.

All I've said is that Paizo has already covered the Cleric/Monk feel with several archetypes and class options, most of which are quite varied and can give the type of Cleric/Monk feel you're looking for, so expecting Paizo to come up with an actual Cleric/Monk Hybrid class is unlikely, since it would be stepping on the toes of those "Cleric/Monk" archetypes, which Paizo felt were good enough to publish in place of simply creating a Cleric/Monk hybrid class.

The Warpriest is a good example of a hybrid class that, even before its release, people felt it stepped on too many toes and/or didn't really have a special niche that the existing classes (Cleric, Paladin, Inquisitor) didn't already cover. Heck, even after its release, a lot of people would argue that the Warpriest isn't varied enough to warrant being its own class, myself included.

And that's a crucial part of class, or even archetype design: making a class that fills a unique niche that doesn't step or overwrite the bounds of another, existing class or archetype (at least without adequate compensation in another area of specialization).


Inlaa wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

An alchemist/druid could also feel like a witchdoctor or something, using amulets and elixirs and maybe even voodoo dolls or something.

I can see them also gaining a mutagenic wildshape ability, but then it might need to be a 1/2 BAB class if it is still a 9 level caster.

I could see a witch doctor being an archetype for it, but I feel like the base version of the class would be a straightforward extract-based nature caster with 9 spell levels and the ability to do cool things with potions like the alchemist does. They'd probably get some alchemist discoveries and some divine/nature themed discoveries as well.

Also, I imagine a witch doctor archetype would apply the mutagenic wildshape to their animal companion instead of themselves. Can you imagine this guy channeling the power of nature into their animal companion and turning it into a hulking monstrosity of war? (Alternatively, maybe they have a Familiar with the mauler archetype that also gets affected by that mutagenic wildshape stuff and has more HP than normal familiars.)

I'm thinking the herbalist. Making tea like infusions, poultices, and all-natural mutagens. I generally create overlap and throw out whatever does not belong. Animal companions and bombs would be let go. Full beast shape would be a discovery. Even if you allow them to make a lotion of reincarnate, that might be the only 6th level infusion they get to choose from. Note that the mixing time might be earlier, and the can apply it as a move action.


Goth Guru wrote:
Inlaa wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

An alchemist/druid could also feel like a witchdoctor or something, using amulets and elixirs and maybe even voodoo dolls or something.

I can see them also gaining a mutagenic wildshape ability, but then it might need to be a 1/2 BAB class if it is still a 9 level caster.

I could see a witch doctor being an archetype for it, but I feel like the base version of the class would be a straightforward extract-based nature caster with 9 spell levels and the ability to do cool things with potions like the alchemist does. They'd probably get some alchemist discoveries and some divine/nature themed discoveries as well.

Also, I imagine a witch doctor archetype would apply the mutagenic wildshape to their animal companion instead of themselves. Can you imagine this guy channeling the power of nature into their animal companion and turning it into a hulking monstrosity of war? (Alternatively, maybe they have a Familiar with the mauler archetype that also gets affected by that mutagenic wildshape stuff and has more HP than normal familiars.)

I'm thinking the herbalist. Making tea like infusions, poultices, and all-natural mutagens. I generally create overlap and throw out whatever does not belong. Animal companions and bombs would be let go. Full beast shape would be a discovery. Even if you allow them to make a lotion of reincarnate, that might be the only 6th level infusion they get to choose from. Note that the mixing time might be earlier, and the can apply it as a move action.

Hm. Familiar as an arcane discovery. They don't get bombs, but they don't get spontaneous druid spellcasting either - but 6th level and below infusions drawn from the Alchemist and Druid spell lists sounds like a great start.

I imagine this class should get something akin to Goodberry automatically, wherein you get something you can pass around between fights to heal the party or boost HP or something. Not sure what, though.

...Unless their "mutagen" is some sort of buff they apply to others rather than simply bolstering themselves? I imagine it doesn't release the RAAAAAGE and the CRAZY like the Alchemist mutagen does. It should seem more natural - like it fortifies you, empowers you, but doesn't seem so wild or like you're unleashing Mr. Hyde.

For some reason, words like "Calm" and "Serene" and "Deliberate" come to mind when I envision this class.

Grand Lodge

Loving this Alchemist/Druid idea by the way!


I think something that is part Mutagen and part Wild Shape would work for the Alchemist/Druid. Maybe something more akin to what the Hunter gets with Animal Focus where you're not actually becoming something other than yourself, just becoming in tune with your primal nature/some animals.

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