Inveigler template charming falsehood ability do they get a save?


Rules Questions


Once per day, an inveigler can tell a lie so convincing that it enchants a single creature that hears it. The inveigler need not be able to see the target of its lie or have line of effect to it, but if the target cannot hear the lie, this use of the ability is wasted. The lie must be one that would cause the target to view the inveigler as a trusted friend or that would make it likely to follow the inveigler's orders, but it can be as outlandish as the inveigler wishes. If the target hears the lie, it must attempt a Sense Motive check opposed by the inveigler's Bluff check. A creature that fails this check by less than 5 is affected as though by the charm monster spell (caster level equals inveigler's character level). Failure by 5 or more means the inveigler has dominated the target as though using the dominate monster spell (caster level equals inveigler's character level). Charming falsehood is a sonic, mind-affecting charm effect.

If the person is "affected as though by the charm/dominate monster spell" do they get the save associated with that spell? I'm certain they get the additional saves for acting against their nature but what about the initial save?


The way it is worded they don't get an initial save, the sense motive check was the save.


Is the sense motive vs. bluff the only save?


Bump


You might want the third party section for this question. It seems really unreasonable to bypass the will save, especially for a CR +1 template, but that's what it says. Broken third party stuff should probably be fixed or not used- otherwise this removes player agency and/or requires everyone to have full ranks in Sense Motive.


The sense motive takes place of the initial save, I would say the target gets will saves under the following conditions:

"Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus."

"If you don't spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination."

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