Does Tenebrous, or anything like him, exist?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I know, its something from another edition, but I thought I'd ask as the concept interests me and a connecting element does exist in setting. If we have another thing like the Neothelids then that is fine too;

So to the first question; Does Tenebrous exist?
In short, Tenebrous was the being Orcus became 'briefly' when he ascended to godhood (or at least a different level of divinity from what he was). But he wasn't happy about not being orcus and one thing let to another, adventurers being involved if memory serves, turning him back into a demon lord and some remnant of tenebrous remaining behind separated from him.

If not; Does, or could, anything like Tenebrous exist or would that be impossible given the setting?


There's (intentionally) very little info given on the mechanics of how godhood / deities operate in the Golarion universe.

To my knowledge, Orcus as the demon prince of undeath has not yet appeared in Golarion cannon. His wacktastic transformation in another game would be cannon for that other universe.

Zon-Kuthon's imprisonment / enlightenment / metamorphosis is about the closest I can think of that would be the equivalent (well, he and his father who is now his herald...)


Orcus was the demon lord of undeath. That would be Urgathoa. Tenebrous is Zon-Kuthon, or a remnant of him.


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All I know is I haven't gotten any Marching orders recently.


Well, Lamashtu is a demon who became a goddess. So... kind of?


Orcus is OGL, and was mentioned in the Books of the Damned Volume 2 and I think in the Abyss Gazetteer which was in Wrath of the Righteous. However he has been stated to not have a whole interest in Golarion and is involved elsewhere.


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Orcus is, indeed, canon to Golarion (as per the sources mentioned by MMCJawa). He has relatively few worshipers, mostly in Geb and Nidal; this is likely due to competition with other undeath-themed faiths. (In-world, anyway. From a meta standpoint, they don't do much with him because he's so associated with D&D. He's there if you want him, though, like Tiamat and Demogorgon.)

I suspect he spends most of his time and attention dealing with his realm's infestation of thanatotic titans. ^_^


Im well aware that Orcus exists. But does his shadow, the being he was briefly (provided it even applies to the setting), exist as well?

If not; Does an entity 'exist' that is the form of a deity or demigod that existed for a time but the entity returned to a prior state?

In pathfinder terms; If something of Zon-Kuthon remained behind as a separate being and thing of worship if someone managed to turn him back into Dou-bral. If Tenebrous doesnt exist in setting does anything like that exist?


A new question related to the first came to mind;

If a deity or demigod dies, can they be raised into a state of undeath? And if so, what would that even mean? Would undeath for a deity or demigod have any meaning?

I don't refer to an undead being ascending to divinity, nor do I refer to a deity who lords over the dead.


there's an immortal ichor monster from Bestiary 4, an intelligent mass of blood from a dead evil deity

Grand Lodge

Pharasma's servitor, the Echo of Lost Divinity, seems to be some sort of remnant of Aroden (mechanically, a ghost).

Xuldarinar wrote:
If a deity or demigod dies, can they be raised into a state of undeath? And if so, what would that even mean? Would undeath for a deity or demigod have any meaning?

Geb's queen, Arazni, was formerly a demigod who was killed and then made into a lich.


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TimD wrote:
To my knowledge, Orcus as the demon prince of undeath has not yet appeared in Golarion cannon. His wacktastic transformation in another game would be cannon for that other universe.

In hindsight, this was poorly worded.

Yes, Orcus exists in Golarion and is a demon lord who is associated with necromancy and those who choose the path of undeath. He does not necessarily have the same cannon / backstory as the Orcus in prior versions of D&D, especially as the cosmology of Golarion is bit different than that of its D&D forbearers. The Mechanus take-over bit especially and that which became Tenebrous, is what I was trying to address, but failed. Fortunately, my ick is mostly gone so no more cold meds for me for a bit :)

TL;DR - yes, Orcus exists ; no the confluence of events which created Shadowy Tenebrous has not been stated to have occurred within Golarion cannon. Similar things may be possible, but would be GM fiat, not based on existing cannon.

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There's an Orcus in Golarion's cosmos, but keep in mind that while yeah it's meant to be the same obese, goat-headed demon lord of the undead from that other game courtesy of the OGL, the in-game canon from 1e/2e/3e/etc from that game's Orcus isn't open content. Legal standing aside, the development of Orcus into Tenebrous (and then Orcus again) happened in the Great Wheel cosmology and presumes a very specific set of things (such as The Last Word salvaged from the pre-Eladrin ruins in Arborea's desolate third later of Pelion).

Might you presume that the Great Wheel cosmology exists as its own localized bubble of reality on some far shore of the Maelstrom? That's one way to consider it, since the Great Beyond cosmology has been suggested to be just one local shallow of the Maelstrom. But officially you won't see any overt call out to that other game's content and certainly not in-game canonical history from its settings.

But of course there's nothing stopping you from going whatever you want in your own game. At your table you make and break the rules and canon as you feel would best craft a game to your and your players' tastes and desires.

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