I''m looking for a solid rogue build. Lvl 15. All & Any suggestions are most welcome! Please & Ty!
There are lots of great guides out there on building/playing rogues. They'll tell you the kinds of choices to look at and things to keep in mind for the various directions rogues can be taken in.
Just like any class, narrow it down a bit.
I think there is mileage in fixing on Sneak Attack then going the Stealth/Hellcat Stealth route, finding a way to disappear and strike.
Or a Helpful Halfling with UMD, trapfinding and well-chosen skill unlocks.
Unchained Rogue worth building?
The base Rogue does have access to Ki Pool and Vanishing Trick, which on the right build could be very useful.
Multiclassing on a Rogue, especially at high level, is often extremely useful, so when you say "Rogue Build", do you mean pure Rogue? 1-4 levels of something else can revolutionize a Rogue.
There are ways to build an effective strength-based Rogue (ideally with a little multiclassing). Is that acceptable, or are you thinking classic dex-based?
Last thing - is trapfinding required?
The base Rogue does have access to Ki Pool and Vanishing Trick, which on the right build could be very useful.
Multiclassing on a Rogue, especially at high level, is often extremely useful, so when you say "Rogue Build", do you mean pure Rogue? 1-4 levels of something else can revolutionize a Rogue.
There are ways to build an effective strength-based Rogue (ideally with a little multiclassing). Is that acceptable, or are you thinking classic dex-based?
Last thing - is trapfinding required?
Yes, trapfinding is a MUST! Dex build. I was reading elsewhere that being an Elf & using the Elven Curved Blade is the way to go. Agree or Disagree? They said they took 2 lvls of Ranger to qualify for Power Attack. Would it be smart to also go down this path? Or do you guys have better suggestions. PLEASE, Any feedback is MOST WELCOME!! Tyvm!
Even curve blade with power attack is pretty good on an unchained rogue. I have a half elf rogue with 4 levels of fighter (weapon master) for weapon specialization and weapon training (+gloves of dueling) for a nice +3 attack/+ 5 damage. Getting strength to 13 for power attack isn't that bad.
He also uses spring attack to move around and go into flanking position. Celestial armor and major magic (shield) provide good ac (I'm at 36 buffed at level 12). Furious focus helps to keep the attack bonus at a high-ish level despite power attack.
You could use the scout archetype for easy sneak via spring attack but my last rogue died because she was a scout (uncanny Dodge would have saved her).
This scout was a halfling dual dagger unchained rogue (scout). Also with spring attack, underfoot, and high acrobatics. She moved around the battlefield quite a lot and I don't think she was ever hit by an AoO.
Elven Curved Blade works very well with Unchained Rogue; you don't necessarily need to be an Elf. Two levels of Ranger to get Power Attack works, but personally I'd just take 13STR and 'spend' those levels on something else; it's hardly a bad thing to have a decent STR score, and Unchained Rogue isn't starved for ability points.
One multiclass build that's both strange and kind of awesome is going Unchained Rogue with 4 levels of Druid and the feat Shaping Focus. Shaping Focus means that 4 Druid levels lets you take the form of an Air Elemental all day, and a Druid in Elemental form can still wield a weapon (they just have to drop it when they shift so it doesn't vanish). Being an Air Elemental gets you a major DEX bonus and the ability to fly.
Three levels of Weapon Master Fighter gets you two bonus feats and Weapon Training, so you can use Gloves of Dueling. All together, it's worth a major +3 to attack and damage from training.
There's also some very cool stuff you can do with Unchained Rogue and Unchained Monk; I'll post a build later.
Step 1: Be a Stalker Vigilante.
Elven Curved Blade works very well with Unchained Rogue; you don't necessarily need to be an Elf. Two levels of Ranger to get Power Attack works, but personally I'd just take 13STR and 'spend' those levels on something else; it's hardly a bad thing to have a decent STR score, and Unchained Rogue isn't starved for ability points.
One multiclass build that's both strange and kind of awesome is going Unchained Rogue with 4 levels of Druid and the feat Shaping Focus. Shaping Focus means that 4 Druid levels lets you take the form of an Air Elemental all day, and a Druid in Elemental form can still wield a weapon (they just have to drop it when they shift so it doesn't vanish). Being an Air Elemental gets you a major DEX bonus and the ability to fly.
Three levels of Weapon Master Fighter gets you two bonus feats and Weapon Training, so you can use Gloves of Dueling. All together, it's worth a major +3 to attack and damage from training.
There's also some very cool stuff you can do with Unchained Rogue and Unchained Monk; I'll post a build later.
PLEASE DO post that build! I would LOVE to see what you have BadBird. I was reading into the bard class. That also seemed like a solid class option for disabling traps!
1. Unchained rogue is the best
2.scout is great if spring attacking
3. One of the following below is well worth it as well :
Thug (every hit frieghten and sicken )
Take ( free shaken and skills )
Skulking slayer (free dirty tricks )
4. I love lore warden x / :-)chained rogue 4 (skulking slayer ) . the bestdebuffer in the game .
My character will be lvl 15. How many lvls of Lore Warden, 2?
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I was thinking one might take a level in Arcanist or Wizard or something and acquire a Wand of Scorching Ray, then be a Ninja.
When you use Vanishing Trick, you turn Invisible as a Swift Action, guaranteeing you will do Sneak Attack Damage. When you cast Scorching Ray, that's a Ranged Touch Attack, so Ranged Touch Attack vs. Flatfooted AC that does 4d6+Sneak Attack Damage. That just makes me smile.
That level in an Arcane Caster Class also allows you to cast Ranged Touch Attack Cantrips such as Jolt and Acid Splash. Also there is the Robe of Needles, which also lets you make RTA that also do Bleed Damage. Another Option would be to dip a level in Gunslinger, also Ranged Touch Attack.
Another option for this would be to dip 3 levels in Monk, and be a Drunken Master. Drunken Masters regain a Ki Point by taking a Drink, which can be done as a Swift Action via the Potion Glutton Feat.
I found out that Potion Glutton was just nerfed last November, but only for Pathfinder Society Play.
I ran a Ninja/Witch/Arcane Trickster that used the Swift action Invisible, Ranged Touch Sneak Attack combo. It is indeed awesome, and you should keep in mind that your Sneak Attack Damage will all be the same energy type as the base spell. I was a Winter Witch, so I used a lot of Rime-Spelled Snowballs.
However, your ki pool isn't that large, so you if you aren't careful you can run into resource management problems if you have a long adventuring day.
With the Unchained Rogue, a better way to do that same sort if thing is to stay in Rogue (and I like the Sniper archetype for this build), but pick up the Minor Magic and Major Magic tricks. Minor Magic for the damage cantrip of your choice, and Major Magic for something that can give you cover/concealment. I like Silent Image, but if you are an elf you can use Blend which effectively lets you Hide in Plain Sight. If you can start in cover, and have boosted your Stealth (and reduced penalties to restealth while Sniping) you can spend the entire combat making ranged sneak attacks.
Actually, I just noticed that the Eldritch Scoundrel Archetype doesn't lose Trapfinding. At level 15, an Eldritch Scoundrel would be able to cast up to level 5 Wizard spells. Everything else aside, if you have no problem with a Rogue that casts spells, Eldritch Scoundrel is probably going to be by far the best Rogue at high level. The Scoundrel gets weaker Sneak Attack, but the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat and the spell Sense Vitals can more than make up for it.
The spells Heroism and Blade Tutor's Spirit will massively improve attack bonus, Greater Invisibility lets you attack while invisible, and Dazzling Blade can be specialized-in with metamagic to be a powerful swift-action blind spell to throw against enemies who can see invisibility. And of course, there's the spell Dimension Door that enables Dimensional Dervish and Dimensional Savant, which is about as awesome for a Rogue as anything can be...
Dimensional Dervish + Dimensional Savant = Death by Eldritch Scoundrel.
A fun build I've enjoyed with my local group is a Scout/Underground Chemist UnRogue (VMC Alchemist).
Bit convoluted for sure but taking the "Bomber" Talent combined with the Underground Chemist's "Precise Splash Weapons" class feature and the VMC Alchemists "Bombs" class feature allows you to deal sneak attack damage plus your intelligence modifier with your bombs, of which at level 15 you'll have 7+(Intx2).
Wrap up all of this with the Scouts "Skirmisher" feature to move 10' and SA and you'll be doing (8D6+8D6+Int Mod) with all the SA talents and Debilitating Injuries you can imagine in a splash.
It's in no way effective. But it makes me giggle.
Be warned, Urogue can't take those talents in PFS so they likewise might not be allowed for Urogue in home games.
I was thinking I'd rather just take 1 level in Arcanist and take the Dimensional Hop Arcane Exploit. That allows you to DimDor with no disorientation, so you don't even need to take those Dimensional Dervish Feats. 'Hop only has a range of 10', but for Nightcrawlering your way around a battlefield, that's usually all you need.
Dimensional Dervish lets you make a full attack while teleporting, while the Arcanist ability only lets you make a teleport-move and then a single attack. Dimensional Savant counts all of your attacking squares as flanking squares, so that every attack after the first is automatically a Sneak Attack if you teleport right.
if you are an elf you can use Blend which effectively lets you Hide in Plain Sight.
Unfortunately, Blend ends as soon as you attack.
It occurs to me that if you are going Druid, you should stick with Animals. Pick an animal with lots of Natural Attacks...
Wielding two Effortless Lace rapiers with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Finesse Training is going to produce plenty of strong, high-crit attacks as an air elemental when you've got a +4DEX, and 60-foot fly is really, really good. In animal form, you have to turn into a small or tiny animal to get a +4DEX bonus.
All REALLY REALLY intruiging options! Tyvm for all your input! So if I were to go 4 lvls in Druid, how many lvls in Unchained Rogue do I take? What would be your class split for a build like this for lvl 15?
Eldritch Scoundrel & Ninja/Drunken Master/Monk build. What is the lvl solit on those? Ty
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for the druid build, probably 4 druid rest rogue. 4 druid and the feat is all the druid you need for your benefits, more than that and it's a trade off, better spells and stuff, less sneak attack and scaling of debilitating strike, and the when you start doing that, then the question becomes why even take the rogue levels?
Eldritch scoundrel doesn't multiclass
ninja is either 15 ninja, or ninja 12 monk 3 for the drunken ki points.
Wielding two Effortless Lace rapiers with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Finesse Training is going to produce plenty of strong, high-crit attacks as an air elemental when you've got a +4DEX, and 60-foot fly is really, really good. In animal form, you have to turn into a small or tiny animal to get a +4DEX bonus.Dude, how about wielding 2 Effortless Lace Elven Curved Blades? It says that they get treated as light weapons, if it works for rapiers, why not Elven Curved Blades?
Maybe dip a level in Cavalier and take Outflank or Seize the Moment, giving you an Attack of Opportunity whenever you or your allies Crit something.
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours
Elven curved blade, being a THW, is not a one-handed weapon.
Dimensional Dervish lets you make a full attack while teleporting, while the Arcanist ability only lets you make a teleport-move and then a single attack. Dimensional Savant counts all of your attacking squares as flanking squares, so that every attack after the first is automatically a Sneak Attack if you teleport right.Fair to say, but Dimensional Savant requires you first take Dimensional Dervish; Dimensional Dervish requires you first take Dimensional Assault; Dimensional Assault requires you first take Dimensional Agility, and Dimensional Agility doesn't grant you any ability to DimDor in the first place: you still have to take 7 levels in Wizard, 12 levels in Monk, or 6 levels in Ranger followed by 3 levels in Horizon Walker!
With my way, take 1 level in Arcanist, and it's time to play.
Well, Eldritch Scoundrel gets DDoor by level 10. As the OP was talking about a level 15 Rogue, Dervish/Savant seems like a great draw (though Savant requires retraining to get by 15, since it's not a combat feat for some reason).
A mostly-pure rogue could work. Kitsune Scout Unchained Rogue 13 / Master of Many Styles Monk 2.
Something like this:
1: Two Weapon Fighting
2: Talent - Slow Reactions
3: Dodge
4: (Monk level) Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Panther Style
5: (Monk level) Pummelling Style, Mobility
6: Talent - Combat Trick (Spring Attack)
7: Possessed Hand
8: Talent - Weapon Training (Unarmed Strike)
9: Swift Kitsune Shapechanger
10 Talent - Without a Trace
11: Circling Mongoose
12: Talent - Trap Spotter
13: Improved Two-weapon Fighting
14: Advanced Talent - Feat (Hand's Autonomy)
15: Vulpine Pounce
How does it work? Vulpine Pounce lets you charge and get a full attack. Scout gives you sneak attack on a charge. If someone takes an AoO while you charge then Panther Style lets you attack them in turn, and if you've moved more than 10' you get sneak attack on that, again from Scout.
Alternately or on later rounds Circling Mongoose lets you circle around an enemy to gain sneak attack on any attack after the first.
There's a bunch of other stuff in there to make unarmed TWF more effective and Trap Spotter will help you notice traps in time to do something about them - you said trapfinding was important.
What about possibly some builds involving bard? Would bard/rogue build be a better way to go w/ all their buffs/debuffs?
A bard doesn't really want to multiclass. Don't get me wrong, an Archaeologist bard can do the sneaking, the trapfinding and the fighting as well as a rogue, but they do it a different way.
A bard doesn't really want to multiclass. Don't get me wrong, an Archaeologist bard can do the sneaking, the trapfinding and the fighting as well as a rogue, but they do it a different way.
Which is better do you think, the archaeologist or 1 of the previous rogue mixes that were mentioned?
Which is better do you think, the archaeologist or 1 of the previous rogue mixes that were mentioned?
Eldritch Scoundrel as BadBird describes it is the most versatile, Archaeologist Bard next most and a fair bit tougher. My rogue above does reliable high damage, Scott Wilhelm's last idea looks less reliable but likely even higher damage depending on what exactly could be squeezed into such a build.
I'd really have to look at the result of a druid / rogue flying around as an air elemental with rapiers to figure out how good it was.
I don't think that relying entirely on combat maneuvers is a good idea at level 15.
Edit: there isn't going to be one answer as to which is best. It depends on how much you value various things.
The Archaeologist Bard is actually quite similar to the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue in many ways. Archaeologist gets their Luck buff, while Eldritch Scoundrel gets Sneak Attack and Finesse Training; both get up to level 6 spells. Personally I think the Scoundrel does better overall - or at least at high level - due to Sneak Attack and easy DEX damage. When you're adding a stack of sneak dice onto two Finesse Training weapons with Wizard spells to keep Sneak Attacks rolling, I don't think Archaeologist can compete with overall damage. It's certainly not at all bad though; you can easily have an Archaeologist with Agile weapons, among other things.
If you're using two weapons you can't easily cast wizard spells. It's possible to buff then draw and attack, but if you need to cast again you have to drop or sheathe a weapon which gets annoying.
But in any case, an archaeologist isn't there to compete on damage (though with a bag of holding full of large weapons the sonic thrust spell is nice, and greater bladed dash has its uses), they tend to use save or suck/debuff spells or buffs which might be cast on themselves or another.
Characters who both cast spells and also fight in melee don't tend to cast spells once they've started to fight in melee, for obvious reasons. Quick Draw is typically enough to ensure that cast > draw > fight is a smooth transition, and Quick Draw also means that you can sheathe > cast > draw in a single round if you need to. You can also just use a weapon combo that doesn't get in the way of casting, like weapon-and-light-shield or weapon-and-cestus - Finesse Training won't cover two weapons until 11, but that isn't an issue for a level 15 Rogue.
For control spells, Archaeologist and Eldritch Scoundrel are both loaded with good options; I'm not sure if either has an advantage that way. One advantage to the Scoundrel is that they split DEX/INT instead of DEX/CHA, which makes ability scores easier.
Anyway, in more detail the way I might do it,
Human Archaeologist Bard 15
(Fate's Favored, Magical Lineage (Glitterdust))
1: Arcane Strike, Weapon Finesse
2:
3: Lingering Performance
4: Talent - Weapon Training (Weapon Focus (rapier))
5: Fencing Grace
6:
7: Spell Focus (Illusion)
8: Talent - Trap Spotter
9: Persistent Spell
10:
11: Spell Penetration
12: Advanced Talent - Opportunist
13: Dispel Synergy
14:
15: Quicken Spell
Spells known
1: Dazzling Blade, Disguise Self, Heightened Awareness, Silent Image, Timely Inspiration, Tears to Wine
2: Glitterdust, Heroism, Silence, Suggestion, Versatile Weapon, Whispering Wind
3: Confusion, Haste, Jester's Jaunt, Seek Thoughts, Shadow Enchantment
4: Dance of a Hundred Cuts, Hold Monster, Horrific Doubles, Sonic Thrust
5: Archon's Trumpet, Greater Bladed Dash, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Heroism
Another thought that came to mind would to play a ninja character. I was reading up on possibly creating a character that TWF w/ wakizashis.
Any build ideas/suggestions are most welcome! & again tyvm for all the input!
Another thought that came to mind would to play a ninja character.
Ninja doesn't do traps.
it can take trapspotter. it's not as good at traps, but it can do them.
it can take trapspotter. it's not as good at traps, but it can do them.
True, though without Trapfinding they can't use disable on magical traps. I was more just referring back to the OP's "Trapfinding is a must!" statement.
Another thought that came to mind would to play a ninja character. I was reading up on possibly creating a character that TWF w/ wakizashis.
Any build ideas/suggestions are most welcome! & again tyvm for all the input!
I'm not sure if you're open to multi-classing, but you could try my Sap Master Multi-class UCRogue build.
It's functional from first level, and by 11th level you have all that you need. 15th level is just more icing on the cake.
Casting isn't about the before after combat timeline, it's about choices.
A rogue without spells or a good wand is helpless 's a lvl 1 swarm or ooze.
It's not about before/after combat, but rather before/after they choose to draw weapons and get into melee range. A TWF Eldritch Scoundrel can cast all they want in combat before drawing weapons, and it's not really a problem to sheathe or even cord-drop and start casting again if they need to. Typically though, characters that decide it's time to start meleeing don't usually then go back to throwing spells.
Speaking of casting spells, I think I'm changing my vote to Half-Elven Unchained Rogue (or maybe Ninja)/ Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle of Shadow. The Shadow Mystery has some pretty awesome stuff, like free Signature Skill: Stealth and Wings and Cloak of Darkness. Ancient Lorekeeper getting to cherry-pick Wizard spells to add to their list is just crazy good for a semi-Rogue.