Just curious to see what some folks' builds have come up with.
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High enough that the GM ignores the turtle because it can't do anything else useful.
High enough that the GM ignores the turtle because it can't do anything else useful.
Thanks, I meant to put it in "Advice". Just wasn't paying attention.
Very interesting. Thanks!
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Upper 50's to low 60's without significantly sacrificing offensive ability.
Mid 70's, or higher, if you starting sacrificing offense.
I know I can hit 60+ on a fighter swinging a nodachi, and nothing in it's right mind is going to turn its back on a fighter dealing >400 dpr just because he has a high AC
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And increasing AC beyond 60 won't make much difference in a normal game - even a Tarrasque only gets +37 to hit.
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As an alternative to armoring up, consider multiclassing Kensai Magus, Monk, and Devoted Muse while boosting Dex and all three mental stats. In a sufficiently high point buy game with generous awards of treasure, you can get a pretty high AC that way.
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As an alternative to armoring up, consider multiclassing Kensai Magus, Monk, and Devoted Muse while boosting Dex and all three mental stats. In a sufficiently high point buy game with generous awards of treasure, you can get a pretty high AC that way.
A kensai or monk can get to about the same AC as a fighter without sacrificing offense.
I've not played with the Devoted Muse.
I've totally been unable to get similar AC to a fighter and I've never seen an example that can get similar. Care to show a build that gets close to 35 AC on 20,000 gp as a monk and 20 point buy?
What level?
The higher the level, the closer the unarmored classes come to matching the armored classes. If you're talking 6th - 7th level (going by WBL), the unarmored classes are most likely looking at 27 - 31 AC without sacrificing offense, but will have a much higher touch AC.
I know I can hit 60+ on a fighter swinging a nodachi, and nothing in it's right mind is going to turn its back on a fighter dealing >400 dpr just because he has a high AC
What level? How much offence do you feel you've sacrificed to accomplish this?
I'm good with 33 k too.
You simply can't compete on the unarmored side with the armored side getting 11 AC for 2,650 gp and another 5 AC for under 2,000 gp.
Not till higher level, when Bracers or Armor and wider availability of stat increasing items start to even things.
The Armor Master's Handbook gave the fighter a lot of new tools, including Shield Brace and Armor Mastery. It used to mean the fighter was trading out the damage from a two-handed weapon to get good AC (as opposed to decent AC).
What level? How much offence do you feel you've sacrificed to accomplish this?
I know I can hit 60+ on a fighter swinging a nodachi, and nothing in it's right mind is going to turn its back on a fighter dealing >400 dpr just because he has a high AC
That was at level 20 with zero sacrifice of offence. Shield Brace lets you get full benefit from a shield while using weapons in the polearm fighter weapon group. It cost 1 feat.
I was not min/maxing for AC, but I have a character I currently play with and her planned progression posted here.
Her AC is 2 points higher than my magus at same level.
*ps for those that think fighters can't do anything out of combat - this fighter does, she just builds up skills a little more slowly than a lore warden.
Monks tend to go for Mage Armour which is effectively free (if you have a friendly caster) and as good as a 16,000gp set of Bracers. You have to be a pretty high level before Bracers become good value for money.
That was at level 20 with zero sacrifice of offence. Shield Brace lets you get full benefit from a shield while using weapons in the polearm fighter weapon group. It cost 1 feat.What level? How much offence do you feel you've sacrificed to accomplish this?
I know I can hit 60+ on a fighter swinging a nodachi, and nothing in it's right mind is going to turn its back on a fighter dealing >400 dpr just because he has a high AC
Okay I think I that sounds very doable. I thought you might be talking about much lower level. Forgot about shield brace when I first looked at your post. Thanks.
Monks tend to go for Mage Armour which is effectively free (if you have a friendly caster) and as good as a 16,000gp set of Bracers. You have to be a pretty high level before Bracers become good value for money.
Forum builds tend to look down on buffs not cast by the character, but yes. With Mage Armor, the monk can get 30+ AC at 8th level using standard WBL.
The big question is, do you take an offensive style or a defensive one.
Start with say a Grippli -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Point buy of 20 below stats include the racial modifiers
Str- 10
Dex- 18
Con- 14
Int- 10
Wis- 17
Chr- 7
At level 4 put your next point in the Wis to get to 18.
Lvls- Class
1- Unchained Monk
2- Unchained Rogue - Dark Lurker Archtype
3- Unchained Rogue - Dark Lurker Archtype
4- Unchained Rogue - Dark Lurker Archtype
5- Unchained Monk
6- Unchained Monk
7- Unchained Monk
Magic items are
Headband of Wis +2 - 4,000 GP
Belt of Dexterity +2- 4,000 GP
Ring of Protection +1- 2,000 GP
Dusty Prism Ioun Stone- 5,000 GP
Wand of Mage Armor CL1- 750 GP
Buckler +2 - 4,155 GP
Total gold spent 19,905 GP
For your bonus monk feats take Dodge, Combat Reflexes, for your monk Ki power take Qinggong to get to spending a Ki point for Barkskin. For feats 1st lvl is Pummeling style, 3rd lvl is Shield Focus (buckler), 5th lvl is Piranha Strike, 7th lvl is Unhindering Shield. For your rogue ability to select a weapon to get Dex to damage go with unarmed strike.
This puts you to an AC of 36.
10 AC Base
1 Size
1 Dodge
4 Shield
5 Dexterity
5 Wisdom
1 Deflection
1 Insight
4 Natural Armor (Barkskin from Ki Power)
4 Armor (Mage Armor wand)
This is a basic build that makes a Dex based hit and damage monk with some sneak attack. You can take your next level in unchained rogue to gain the various unchained rogue debilitating injuries which can further increase your AC by 4 against the target of your sneak attack.
As an alternative to armoring up, consider multiclassing Kensai Magus, Monk, and Devoted Muse while boosting Dex and all three mental stats. In a sufficiently high point buy game with generous awards of treasure, you can get a pretty high AC that way.
As an improvement on this scheme -- take levels in Iroran Paladin instead of Devoted Muse, and delay taking the Monk level until you are ready to dispense with armor altogether (as you can make the other two classes work with light armor).
If you have a fighter with Mithral stoneplate, that's a straight up 9+5 enchantment+7 dex bonus+2 for a heavy shield+5 enchantment+5 defending weapon dumping into AC+6 combat expertise+5 amulet of natural armor+5 ring of deflection++1 dodge+1 being small size+1 insight ioun stone+10 base=62 AC.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Reduce Person grants another +1, and being a gnome gives you +4 more against giants. Your brother with the Kin Guardian trait can then also give you bonus AC via aiding another, for another +4. Also, you took mobility so you moved through their square for another +4. We're at 75 AC!
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Since you only really need 15 levels of fighter, we can put things in other spots for five levels. Four of them can go into Stalwart Defender, giving another +2 dodge bonus to AC! Shield Focus then raises your shield AC by another +1! Then, Greater Shield Focus gives you another +1! Now we're at 79!
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE?!
Since your fighter levels can be substituted for tower shield specialist at no adddional DEX penalty, you can gain another +2 from your shield! With a Mithral Tower Shield, your max DEX even goes up by another +1! Act now, and your final level can be Bard! No real reason, it's just awesome! After defensive stance (+2!) is included, that's an AC value of 84 for the low, low price of 879,999.99 gold pieces, plus 3.6 million exp in shipping charges!
Call within the next ten minutes to get a CL15 wand of Dance of a Hundred Cuts and the corageous weapon enhancement included on your order! If you make a melee attack, it doesn't move you at all, and it gives you another +7 to your AC! That's a 91 AC value, yours at no additional cost!
Don't hesitate! Call now, and stop taking hits from anything that rolls less than a 20 ever again!
Don't hesitate! Call now, and stop taking hits from anything that rolls less than a 20 ever again!
If only you had gone magus, you could have added Mirror Image + Displacement.
Mithral stoneplate??? Wouldn't that be mithral full plate?
Don't hesitate! Call now, and stop taking hits from anything that rolls less than a 20 ever again!If only you had gone magus, you could have added Mirror Image + Displacement.
You're not wrong, but the point here was an absurd AC, and miss chance is something else.
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Mithral stoneplate??? Wouldn't that be mithral full plate?
It would, as full plate and stoneplate have the same stats. Stoneplate is just 300 gold more expensive, and, well. I was playing a salesman... >.>
Mithral stoneplate??? Wouldn't that be mithral full plate?It would, as full plate and stoneplate have the same stats. Stoneplate is just 300 gold more expensive, and, well. I was playing a salesman... >.>
lol