Mercy Killing as Lawful Good?


Advice


I'm running a game with friends, and in our next game, the party is going to find a boat who's passengers and crew were cursed by Urgathoa to crave human flesh. When they arrive, the only survivor is a young cabin boy, who is insane and tries to eat them. I suspect the players will try to find a way to save the boy, but they are at least 3 days from shore. I'm trying to plan for all possible scenarios, and one is that they might mercy-kill him. The only problem is that there is a single Lawful Good on a boat full of various Neutrals. He is a GM-character and I generally try to keep him out of things, but the players may go to him for advice because he's the healer and they might think he could help.
There aren't any holding cells in the boat, and the boy is going to actively try to attack whenever he's able.
My main question is: Would a LG bring it up as an option?
Also, any other advice of what to expect would be helpful. This started out as a no-win situation, where there was no hope for the boy, but I decided that wouldn't give much room for creative solutions.
And before anyone asks if the players are okay with this, this scenario is me testing how far into depravity people are comfortable with, and I'll ask outright after this has been resolved in-game.


You say that the LG character is the healer? Does that make them a cleric? A cleric who worships a god in LG/NG range probably wouldn't go for the mercy killing. I think a cleric of NG deity would be even mroe against the idea than LG. A cleric of a LN deity might be open to the idea.

Without knowing specifics, I'd say a LG GMPC likely wouldn't be the one tho bring up mercy killing as an option, but might be open to it if somebody else spoke up about it. It largely depends on their personal moral code and whether they believe they can keep themselves and their allies safe from the flesh eating child.


The LG character is an oracle with the Life mystery. However, he is a priest of Sarenrae. From what I understand of her, evil should be repented of and redeemed, if possible, but if not, destroyed. I'm not sure if the flesh eating child would be considered on one side or the other.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Rope is an amazing thing on a boat.


Wei Ji isn't far off. Tying the kid up sounds pretty easy for a party of PCs. Tie him up, or heck build him a crate. While mercy killing is what you call 'disposing of the undead', there are very few ailments that cannot be dealt with using advanced magic. Even the incurably insane boy can be fixed by a single, free-to-cast heal spell.

There are no asylums in towns with high level clerics!

The curse is removed by an even easier spell.

For someone, say, cursed with lycanthropy who has eaten their family, and gone mad over it, there might be no way back... but ideally they should ask for it in a fit of tears. If your friend has begun to slaver and swell and is growing wings out of the side of his head already, killing him is probably a good idea, too. There are situations where that kind of mercy really is mercy and a LG character really should consider them.


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If you had a cleric of Calistria, the party would already have restraints and a ball gag. Problem solved until 5th level and access to Remove Curse.

Shadow Lodge

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I think under the right circumstances, the answer would be yes. But it would not be casually done and probably only if the child was a danger to others and options were limited.

A good example in film is in Serenity, where the mostly good crew consider killing River Tamm after she wiped out an entire bar when subliminally triggered.

If cannibal boy is that dangerous, it should at least be talked about.

Btw, Law and Chaos have nothing to do with it, through the why and how would be probably be different.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This reminds me of a situation in a game, though, which is why I made the mention of rope.

Spoiler:

Party fights a bunch of thugs that are part of a lycanthrope cult, days away from any support or help at first level.

Party even has a paladin in the group, who is ironically the stealthiest in the party so she gets sent ahead to scout.

Rest of the party biffs the knowledge checks to realize that these folks are not infected and could not be infected. Then knocks the Sense Motive out of the park to realize that these folks are fanatic and truly believe they are going to turn into weres at the full moon, which is less than a day away.

The rest of the party used the 'expedient solution' (as mentioned in thread title), which left most of us feeling sort of dirty, but the GM gave us the benefit of the doubt because we 'didn't know any better' and 'were level one and didn't have the resources to deal with lycanthropes of any type'.

Silver Crusade

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


This reminds me of a situation in a game, though, which is why I made the mention of rope.

** spoiler omitted **

Uh, why didn't you just wait till the full moon?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


This reminds me of a situation in a game, though, which is why I made the mention of rope.

** spoiler omitted **

Uh, why didn't you just wait till the full moon?

We didn't have the resources (ie, no silver weapons, no belladonna, no nothing) and we biffed the knowledge rolls hard enough that we didn't want to take the chance of fully operational battle-weres...

Silver Crusade

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


This reminds me of a situation in a game, though, which is why I made the mention of rope.

** spoiler omitted **

Uh, why didn't you just wait till the full moon?
We didn't have the resources (ie, no silver weapons, no belladonna, no nothing) and we biffed the knowledge rolls hard enough that we didn't want to take the chance of fully operational battle-weres...

Ah, my bad, I misunderstood what "biff" meant.


you're on a boat thats 38% rope. You have other options.


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As others have pointed out, they may try to tie him up. Review the tie-up mechanics in the grapple section to help you out here. The NPC may be able to escape artist out of the ropes during the night by taking a 20 but I recommend looking up what the escape artist DC would be so that you can decide if that would be feasible, or a GM fiat.

But the main question. How the LG character feels about mercy killing can depend as much on their religion and personal code than their alignment. You will get further asking how that specific character feels about it, or what does the dogma of their religion say about it instead of asking how a LG would feel about it.

This is off topic, but I find that alignment is a better tool for describing how that character sees their own actions rather than deciding what actions they would take.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM Livgin wrote:


But the main question. How the LG character feels about mercy killing can depend as much on their religion and personal code than their alignment. You will get further asking how that specific character feels about it, or what does the dogma of their religion say about it instead of asking how a LG would feel about it.

This is off topic, but I find that alignment is a better tool for describing how that character sees their own actions rather than deciding what actions they would take.

Example:

I have a shifty grandmother tengu paladin of Andoletta.

Sure, she's good, and she believes in upholding the law, but she's also a weathered pragmatist that's had to bury many of her kin because of either evil or stupidity.

A firm proponent of the idea that 'being good isn't easy', the short cuts and easy way to do things are not always the right way, but a white lie to preserve a community or ease the parting of a loved one for a family is WELL within her wheelhouse, so to speak.

She'd probably tie up this kid and give him non-lethal whaps to the back of the head every time he started trying to gnaw on someone if he was trying to break free of the curse, and admonish him to keep working at it.


Also

its trying to eat me. must be a ghoul. *thwack* will be the most likely response.

Dark Archive Software Developer

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Ignacia wrote:
And before anyone asks if the players are okay with this, this scenario is me testing how far into depravity people are comfortable with, and I'll ask outright after this has been resolved in-game.

I would like to humbly suggest reading the very excellent section in Horror Adventures titled "Horror Games And Consent" (page 190). In summary, it's generally best to inform your players beforehand if you intend to use horrifying content or situations and what, in broad strokes, those themes might be. Getting a sense of where your players are comfortable helps you craft stories that push but do not cross those boundaries. It also helps players understand the overall tone of your game and plan both themselves and their characters accordingly.

If you think it will spoil a surprise, such a declaration will only serve as a teaser trailer for your overall game. Knowing what's coming will keep your players on edge with anticipation.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Moved to Advice forum.

Shadow Lodge

Ignacia wrote:
The LG character is an oracle with the Life mystery. However, he is a priest of Sarenrae. From what I understand of her, evil should be repented of and redeemed, if possible, but if not, destroyed. I'm not sure if the flesh eating child would be considered on one side or the other.

Well, that sounds like your answer.

The NPC should advise against mercy killing until it is clear that the child cannot be redeemed/cured, at which point her faith would consider it acceptable.

Shadow Lodge

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Here's the other side of this? In pfs I got critted by a Shadow and reduced from 14 STR to 2 str on one shot. I was pinned in my now too heavy armor.

One more hit and I'm rising as another shadow in 1d4 rounds. We are 1st level characters so we're fragile. and I've blown knowledge religion role out of the water.

No other enemies are threatening the shadow.

My response as a good character?

Coupe de Grace on myself.

Gm comes up with a lame reason why response won't happen (not like a will save to go through with it or something like that). Shadow seeks out other foes and does not finish me.

I never played the character again.He had been deprived of a heroic death or a failed heroic death. It didn't matter which but my difficult decision meant nothing.

Make sure whatever choice the PC makes it is their decision, and if it can be justified in any sense, treat it as fine.


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This makes no sense.

Nothing presented in this thread gives a reason to mercy kill the boy.

Mercy killing is about mercy--to end suffering. What we have here is someone who is insane and trying to eat the party.

You remove the threat by confining them by some means--a box or rope. If you can't remove the threat killing become self defense, not mercy killing.

As for the more general topic, I would consider mercy killing to be acceptable to someone of an LG bent. Of course magic is the desired path but not always an option.

For a level 15 party to mercy-kill someone for insanity would be evil as they have magical options. For a level 3 party to do it, though, could be a reasonable course of action. I would not expect the level 3 party to spend a big chunk of change on hiring someone to cast heal to save the insane person.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Loren Pechtel wrote:


For a level 15 party to mercy-kill someone for insanity would be evil as they have magical options. For a level 3 party to do it, though, could be a reasonable course of action. I would not expect the level 3 party to spend a big chunk of change on hiring someone to cast heal to save the insane person.

Depends on the party.

Most groups I've been with, that would be paid because of any number of character reasons, least of which the 'arm-wrestling' within the party to see who gets to 'adopt' the new person as part of their entourage

Shadow Lodge

The question is whether the insanity is actually curable via the usual means, or whether the GM has decided that in this particular case the influence of the goddess Urgathoa means that it's incurable (except, perhaps, using Wish or Miracle).

If the insanity and curse are both incurable and the party knows that the boy would be a living ghoul spending the rest of his days in a cage to prevent him from killing and eating his fellow humanoids - that's when the party might legitimately consider death to be a mercy.


I think it would be brought up as a method of last resort, preferably after all others options have been exhausted and the boy proves to be an immediate threat to the party.


You don't need a jail or to tie the kid up, you simply put the kid out in the dinghy and tow it behind your boat. Every large boat has a smaller boat on board to take to shore as well as an abundance of rope. Keep him watered and fed, then remove his curse when you reach an appropriate destination.


Thanks for the advice, everyone. Turns out I shouldn't have bothered with asking, because the first one to find the child was the group's barbarian, who is a fan of expediency and not wasting resources.

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