Vampire - the Quest for Eternal Night Final Selections
I spent 30 minutes reviewing submissions. Initially, there were a few that I was able to pick and a few I was considering passing on, with difficulty!
I was getting close to deciding what the final group would be. Then I got an idea. An awful idea. A wonderful, awful idea.
This campaign is clearly a deviation from the plot of the AP, it will follow along the AP but have differences such as goals of the party being the most striking. The party was to have two goals upon entering the Darklands. Then it hit me, what if instead of having one group go the Council sent two groups? This is after all, an important quest.
So that is what they are going to do, they are going to send two groups to accomplish their goals. I will run two tables, six PCs at each table. What I am NOT going to do yet, is announce who is at who's table.
I will start the Campaign tomorrow with everyone at Table I. Then once the groups are divided, I will open Table II.
Everyone go ahead and dot into the Discussion Thread, I will prompt you all when the Gameplay Thread is open. I will start with Prologues as I normally do.
Note that the following players will be starting together for what would seem to be obvious reasons:
1. Kisara Vulpina & Zelic Hook - Jair Family.
2. Thulmere Harzhor & Allizsah Dravonie - Zura Family.
3. Helt Vhis & Lener Wardwaver - Malkistra Family.
4. Veldrin d'Shraen & Murza - Drakina Family.
Response Part I - Dominate Specifics
Hmmm...
I mean, I can't say I'm happy that Dominate now has a daily limit, but I suppose 14/day is still pretty good. It just makes it so I won't have as many dominated; between all of my will-destroying abilities, I think I can still land my control fairly regularly. I suppose the easiest work-around is to simply create tons and tons of spawn, and have them create more spawn, and have them all mass-dominate everything in sight until they are turned into spawn....That being said, the fact the biggest drawback about dominating a person rather than planting false thoughts is that they remember the control... well... it's a shame there's no way to write up a different set of memories, isn't it? *cackles softly*
Out of curiosity, whose guidelines are you going by for the Dominate rules? There were very few points in the thread you linked where there was a unanimous agreement.
I do like how the first abilities are telepathic. That makes things simpler.
1. Should he hand me the stats of the creature I've dominated so I can control it in combat?
2. Is the creature more or less mindless while dominated, or does he retain his personality?
3. Will I have to command him not to run away or try to escape if I leave him alone?
4. Over what distance can I exert commands? How complicated can those commands be?
5. Will he get a new save every time I tell him to do something, as anything he does to aid me is sorta going against his nature, as he was trying to kill me a few moments before?
6. Can I order him to fail saves against something like Mind Fog?
7. If I order him to go off somewhere on his own, can I then get a sensory idea of the location to better pinpoint a Teleport spell?
8. How many creatures can you have Dominated at one time?
9. If you have more than one creature dominated, can you give a blanket command to all of them as a single move action?
10. Is dominating a creature an evil act? Can you justify the use of the spell in the name of a greater good? What if you Dominate someone that is trying to kill you? What if they're mindless?
11. Does the dominated creature remember it's time dominated, or is that period a blank?
12. Can you Dominate a creature that you've already dominated while the first Dominate Person spell is still in effect, to reset the duration? What happens if he passes a save against a 2nd Dominate Person? Can you Dominate a creature that someone else already has dominated?
13. Over the duration of the spell, can I attempt to build up a rapport with the creature, showing him that we (the party) don't have hostile intentions to him, so he's less likely to go berserk on us when the spell duration expires? Do dominated creatures ever suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?
Response Part II - Possession
Next, for Possession, what, exactly, can I do in the new body? Can I use any of my personal abilities while occupying their body? Can I make them cast spells? Could I activate the spell-like or supernatural abilities of the host?
1. You can force the victim to participate in Melee or Ranged combat.
2. No, personal abilities of the possessor cannot be used through the conduit.3. Yes, you can make them cast spells but as per the guidelines for Dominate if the spell would force the victim to act against their nature, they would get another save to resist your control.
4. Yes with the same restrictions as above in item 3.
Hmmmm.... So, for #5, you're saying that they get a new save every time I give them an order? That seems.... excessive.
Hmmmm.... So, for #5, you're saying that they get a new save every time I give them an order? That seems.... excessive.
Re-reading that I see what you mean, I think I read the question differently at first. IF you are ordering the Thrall to do something against their nature, they get a new will save. NOT further attempting to kill you is not against their nature, it is not in the nature of most beings to excessively kill and kill and kill.
By way of Example - You Dominate a Paladin. You order that Paladin to kill children. That Paladin gets a will save for each new child it is being forced to kill.
You Dominate a Paladin. You order that Paladin to kill Bugbear warriors. That Paladin gets NO will save as they would have been likely to slay such a foe without much thought.
Response Part III - Chain of Command or Not...
Also, regarding the final ability, while I think Chain of Command is an awesome (and delightfully creepy) ability, perhaps a more fitting ability for the 'masters of the mind' would be to control more creature types? After all, Possession works with any sentient creature, so it might be nice to also control an occasional monstrous humanoid or abberation (such as driders) every once in a while. I mean, with my powers of mesmeration, I can control undead or hijack the body of a dragon, but the memories and thoughts of your common tiefling are far beyond my abilities.
Hmmm. I see what you mean here. Sort of like a Ranger Favored enemy. The feat would give you a second set of Creature types to control beyond Humanoids.
As you are the only member of the Family, I'll allow you to choose here. Chain of Command or a second set of Creature types to control - similar to the Ranger's Favored Enemy selections.
Makes much more sense. That's closer to how the spell is typically considered.
So, what if I command a jailer or someone that's captured us to let us go? Would that be 'against their nature?'
EDIT: Hmmm... I would say the 'favored enemy' ability. That being said, I'm not sure if I'll actually take possession/power 5. I have spells that can duplicate their effects, and do more besides.
Response Part IV - Spawn of my Spawn - Infinite Combo!
Hmmmm.... kind of off-topic but also relevant, can I control my spawn's spawn and my spawn's dominated as though they were my personal spawn/dominated? For reference, the Vampire Spawn template in the Monster Codex specifically says any it Dominates can be controlled by their master vampire as though they personally were the direct Dominator. And I know I read somewhere that vampires can control the spawn of their spawn, I just want to check.
No. That I'll have to disagree with.
Here is how I see it working.
Dracula (in this case, Vampire 1) is a 10HD Vampire.
He drains two 10HD Humans, who become enslaved Vampires (we'll call them Fred and Jones).
Dracula has enslaved Fred and Jones (Vampires 2 and 3), and orders them out to spawn two more 10HD vampires each. Fred and Jones do that, and name them Harry, Barry, Jerry, and Larry (Vampires 4-7).
Dracula has control over Fred and Jones, who have control over Harry & Barry or Jerry & Larry.
Dracula does not have control over Harry, Barry, Jarry, and Larry directly, and so they will not follow his orders. However, he can order Fred and Jones to order their underlings for him. He can also intimidate the hell out of them to follow his bidding but they are not outright commands that MUST be obeyed.
Makes much more sense. That's closer to how the spell is typically considered.
So, what if I command a jailer or someone that's captured us to let us go? Would that be 'against their nature?'
EDIT: Hmmm... I would say the 'favored enemy' ability. That being said, I'm not sure if I'll actually take possession/power 5. I have spells that can duplicate their effects, and do more besides.
No, jailers let people go too, they don't just jail people.
Another example:
By way of Example - You Dominate a ruthless Drow Matron who is about to sacrifice her male child. You order that Matron NOT to kill the child. That Drow gets a will save to go ahead and kill the child.
You Dominate a ruthless Drow Matron. You order that Matron to kill her Male Child. That Matron gets NO will save as they would have been likely to slay such a foe without much thought.
Its more a test of morality than function.
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For now then, let's leave the Feat as an option either way (no choice for that Blood Power as of yet) until theory becomes practice.
Response Part V - Quick Spawn
Also, slightly more off-topic but still relevant: is there any way to get a Spawn to rise faster than 1d4 days? Perhaps a casting of Animate Dead, or it's WoP counterpart Undeath? Or a dedicated alternate spell?
No, not your own spawn anyway.
Create Undead spells allow you to create Vampires as an option though I am not sure you have them in your power suite.
Response Part VI - Wow, that's a LOT of Dominate
A note about limiting use of Dominate, is that it's unlikely to do very much anyway. Between up to 7 vampires, most of whom will have at least 5-10 uses of dominate each day, plus their cohorts, we could still quite easily dominate every named NPC and their mother before we even count spawn (which we can still create at will).
Fair point but if you try and Dominate and fail the consequences could be dire.
Response Part VII - Playwright
And regarding Playwright, does the time elapsed have to be consecutive? For example, could I erase and rewrite a few hours here, a few hours there (assuming they failed by at least 15) to make them never remember me, even if I met them a month ago? Or would they have to fail 4 times for that? And can I influence short-term future memories (i.e. "You will not remember us sneaking by you, nor our return in an hour", or "you will not remember me killing your friends")?
It has to be consecutive. Let's assume that memories are stored ins such a fashion that it would have to be that way.
Yes, you can influence short term future memory depending on the level of the victim's failure.
Response Part VIII - Consistency...
Hmmmm....
Okay, so with a bit more thought, there's another thing I noticed:
Dominate: Based off of a 5th-level spell, usable (by Murnau) 14/day.
Mesmerize: Based off a 1st-level spell, usable 5/day
Playwright: Based off a 5th-level (Psychic) spell, usable 5/day
Possession: Roughly based off a 4th-level spell, usable 1/day
So, the number of uses each day isn't entirely consistent. (Not that I'm asking you to reduce the uses of Dominate again) Perhaps increasing the uses/day of Mesmerize and Possession a bit?
The uses per day depend on different variables. There is a baseline number of uses and then bonus uses based on Charisma or Intelligence scores.
I will leave them as is.
Possession is more subtle and 1x a day I think is sufficient.
As far as power levels go, these abilities build off of one another in a logical way I think. That the creators of these spells assigned certain levels to them I think can be somewhat arbitrary so I will not let it bother me :-)
Response Part IX - Final Thoughts
Does the +4 channel resistance from Loyalty stack with a vampire's innate channel resistance? (By the way, the way it's currently worded still makes the bonus apply to all will saves).
Out of curiosity, can I see the memories I'm rewriting? As in, what I'm changing? It would be nice if the greater fail for Mesmerize granted an effect akin to detect thoughts, and if I could see my victim's memories when using Playwright.
No. I'll fix that wording, it is a similar bonus and it cannot stack. Like Mage Armor and actual armor, as the bonuses are the same they do not stack.
No, you would need to use Detect Thoughts or a more powerful spell to see what it is you are changing.
Nice! Great idea!
Hmm... what about asking them to allow a spell to be cast without a fight/resistance? Would it give them a penalty to the save or perhaps treat them as if they took 10?
Hmm... what about asking them to allow a spell to be cast without a fight/resistance? Would it give them a penalty to the save or perhaps treat them as if they took 10?
I am going to say no to this. :-)
This Recruitment Thread is now closed!
Head below now for Council of Song - All Bard Council of Thieves Recruiting.
In July for the Lost Ruins AP - Gestalt Pathfinder/PC Choice recruitment.
And of course, as my other AP's and non-Pathfinder Campaigns need players, I will recruit below for those games as well.
