Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Building a 'tank' magus


Advice

51 to 61 of 61 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Jesper Roland Sørensen wrote:
Kurald Galain wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


(*)If you actually go to the trouble to invest in the Power Attack + Improved/Greater Bull Rush Feat Chain, when you push them into the midst of your allies, they get sliced and diced by Attacks of Opportunity. Hard to fit all those feats in, though.

The greater bull rush chain is, well, great. I just don't see what Shield Slam adds to it, though.

I'll have to look into that shielded mage feat, it sounds promising.

I think the only thing shield slam does is give a free bull rush , when you shield bash and if the oppornent can't move back due to wall or other hard surface they are knocked prone instead.

Normally bull rush is a standard action so with this he can full attack and bull rush if he wants to.

Yes -- getting a Bull Rush as part of a Shield Bash attack (that uses no more and no less than one of your normal attacks) instead of a Standard Action is a pretty big deal, as is not provoking an Attack of Opportunity. This makes Improved Bull Rush partly redundant (you still get the +2 bonus on your Bull Rush), but you have to have Power attack and Improved Bull Rush if you want Greater Bull Rush, and you have to have Power Attack if you want Improved Bull Rush(*), while Shield Slam requires Improved Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Fighting, thus making this highly feat-intensive, so make sure your party can take advantage of your Greater Bull Rushes before you invest in all this.

(*)Thereby making Power Attack a prerequisite twice, which means that if you dip in anything that gets you off the hook for one of them, you are still on the hook.

The pulling equivalent of this(*) is Greater Reposition, which requires Combat Expertise and Improved Reposition, which requires Combat Expertise -- and then to make this good you either need to sink a whole bunch of feats into Whip use(**), or you need to get a Tentacle (Alchemist 2 dip?), or you need to get some other weird weapon or Improved Unarmed Strike that you can use to grab opponents, or you need to wait until you can use some kind of Polymorphing spell to turn yourself into something that has Grab and Reach, although the Magus spell list and 6/9 spellcasting more generally isn't friendly towards this.

(*)As far as I know, no action economy booster equivalent to Shield Slam is available for Reposition, unless you are a Maneuver Mastery Monk (which can boost all Combat Maneuvers this way, and incidentally can also get True Strike as a 4th level Qinggong Power; unfortunately not compatible with Unchained Monk, but gets to use Monk level instead of BAB).

(**)Get Whip proficiency somehow; Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, and Greater Whip Mastery; this doesn't even include Improved Grapple (which requires Improved Unarmed Strike) and Greater Grapple.


IF you are looking to do alot of maneuvers, I would maybe multiclass a little or take archetypes that help improve this.

If you don't mind playing an elf (half elf) the Spire defender is a good start for any maneuver magus, you loose armor profeciency as a base featuer but still learn to ignore ASF at the normal levels if you have gotten profecieny in armor, so a dip in fighter will give you all the armor you need.
The trade of is you can pick an exotic weapon with trip or disarm = Whip
You get combat expertise and dodge as bonus feats in level 1
1 dip in fighter = bonus feat and all 3 armor, saving you to pick feats for those.

If you plan to go the dex route A dip in Daring chamapion cavalier gives you a few extra skills points, light and medium armor aswell as weapon finesse.


I don't have a philosophical objection to playing an Elf Magus -- the class seems almost made for them in some ways (even if the regular Elf archetype of Magus = Spelldancer isn't all that great, and the Spire Defender archetype is very regionally restricted). On the other hand, playing an Elf does have a practical downside if you are going to be the prime frontliner as opposed to a glass cannon striker or second-line controller: -2 penalty to Constitution really hurts. Nothing wrong with being a second-line controller or striker, but what the thread was originally about was being a Tank Magus, which implies frontliner.

Now, this is assuming point buy (PFS = 20 points; standard AP build = 15 points). If you roll for ability scores and get really good rolls, go right ahead and play an Elf on the front line. (Knowing my luck, though, 4d6 Drop Lowest would probably get me something similar to my own real life ability scores, which come out to the equivalent of a point buy somewhere in the range -3 to +6.)

With respect to archetypes: Another possibility is Mindblade Magus -- although you don't get armor proficiency beyond Light Armor and no shield proficiency, you are an Occult/Psychic spellcaster, so you never have to worry about Arcane Spell Failure, and you just need to get proficiency so that you aren't taking Armor Check Penalty on your attack rolls, and with that taken care of you're good to go from level 1 for using Heavy Armor and a Buckler. At 7th level, you can use Spell Combat even when wielding a weapon in each hand (and both Light and Heavy Shields count as weapons) or using a double weapon using Two-Weapon Fighting, and at 13th level you can use Spell Combat even wielding a two-handed weapon. Also, you can manifest your own weapons from your Psychic Pool, but nothing in the archetype says that you have to use manifested weapons if you aren't putting enchantments on them with your Psychic Pool, so you could (for instance) use a manifested main hand weapon and a mundane shield, and later get normal enchantments on the shield (which will save you some actions since you can't manifest 2 weapons with 1 action until you get to level 13, and even if you did manifest a shield it doesn't seem like the manifestation ability would actually make it work to give you a Shield Bonus). The rules on manifesting a weapon don't get more specific than the general categories of Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed, so presumably you can manifest anything in these categories that you are proficient with.

With respect to feats: I keep forgetting that the Improved/Greater Combat Maneuver feats that require Combat Expertise or Improved Unarmed Strike can be satisfied by Dirty Fighting instead (which is both useful in its own right and even comes with text that makes the Improved Combat Maneuver feats non-redundant with it by increasing the bonus that they provide).


Finally got a chance to read up on Phantom Blade Spiritualist. Will have to think about it more, but:

  • Starts with Medium Armor and Martial Weapon proficiency but no shield proficiency, but no penalty for using Heavy Armor or a shield as long as you can get proficiency elsewhere (Occult spellcasting).
  • Manifest your weapon from your mind. Re-manifest it a day later if it gets destroyed, but watch out in case instead of being destroyed it gets taken away (eventually has to be taken more than 1 mile away to keep you from recalling it to you; it's not clear from the text whether you can harbor it if it is not in your possession, and Etheric Tether is replaced, so it isn't automatically destroyed/banished if it is taken away).
  • Abilities very similar to Magus, with the notable exception of being a Wisdom-bsaed (great for a Dwarf) spontaneous spellcaster with the Spiritualist spell list and not getting any Magus Arcana unless you go VMC Magus (for which the Spellstrike that you get at 11th level is semi-redundant, being useful only if you get deprived of your Phantom Weapon).
  • Spiritualist spell list also means no True Strike, although it does have some other nice spells (including both some nasty debuffs and pretty decent bad status removal) that a Magus would never be able to get.
  • VMC Magus without actual Magus levels means that Magus Arcana that depend upon Magus levels for effect do not work, so this means no Maneuver Mastery even if you shelled out for VMC Magus.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Finally got a chance to read up on Phantom Blade Spiritualist. Will have to think about it more, but:

  • Starts with Medium Armor and Martial Weapon proficiency but no shield proficiency, but no penalty for using Heavy Armor or a shield as long as you can get proficiency elsewhere (Occult spellcasting).
  • Manifest your weapon from your mind. Re-manifest it a day later if it gets destroyed, but watch out in case instead of being destroyed it gets taken away (eventually has to be taken more than 1 mile away to keep you from recalling it to you; it's not clear from the text whether you can harbor it if it is not in your possession, and Etheric Tether is replaced, so it isn't automatically destroyed/banished if it is taken away).
  • Abilities very similar to Magus, with the notable exception of being a Wisdom-bsaed (great for a Dwarf) spontaneous spellcaster with the Spiritualist spell list and not getting any Magus Arcana unless you go VMC Magus (for which the Spellstrike that you get at 11th level is semi-redundant, being useful only if you get deprived of your Phantom Weapon).
  • Spiritualist spell list also means no True Strike, although it does have some other nice spells (including both some nasty debuffs and pretty decent bad status removal) that a Magus would never be able to get.
  • VMC Magus without actual Magus levels means that Magus Arcana that depend upon Magus levels for effect do not work, so this means no Maneuver Mastery even if you shelled out for VMC Magus.

Judging by the description, he does not really need VMC Magus. He even has a small Magus arcana with a Ectoplasmic Pool.


^You would need VMC Magus (or a 3 level dip) to get Magus Arcana. Ectoplasmic Pool is the equivalent of Arcane Pool, not Magus Arcana.


Spell combat as a magus which means you keep your off-hand free; no shields despite being psychic.

The magus spell list is much better as a high damage striker. The spiritualist list is all over the place. You can certainly do interesting things with it

No equivalent to spell recall so be careful how you use your spells. Also you could easily burn thru your ectoplasmic pool really fast, so be careful there too.


Swordplay style?
Upsetting shield style?
Shielded gauntlet style?
Panther style?
Archon style?

If the enemy has a hard time hitting you they're going to run for your allies... best support them to...


The worst thing about the Phantom Blade is the thought component of psychic magic. If you want to cast one of those spells while in melee, you'll need to add 10 to the concentration check or risk taking a AoO.


Melkiador wrote:
The worst thing about the Phantom Blade is the thought component of psychic magic. If you want to cast one of those spells while in melee, you'll need to add 10 to the concentration check or risk taking a AoO.

From 4th level they can center themselves as a swift action. The writer already thought of your objection.


avr wrote:
Spell combat as a magus which means you keep your off-hand free; no shields despite being psychic.

I keep forgetting that Spell Combat specifically says that you have to have a hand free even when casting spells with no Somatic Components (gets translated to Emotion Components for occult casters). This also means no two-handed weapon.

The exception to both is if you manage to get more than 2 arms. Unfortunately, the Spiritualist spell list has neither Alter Self (turn into a Kasatha) nor Monstrous Physique (several multi-armed forms available), so the only ways to do this would be to be a Kasatha (probably won't be allowed in most campaigns), dip 2 levels into Alchemist (Vestigial Arm Discovery, but delaying Spiritualist for 2 levels really hurts), or find some way to get the above spells onto your spell list (but without Magus Arcana, you can't use Spell Blending), or find some way of getting these spells onto your spell list (not aware of any other than 2 levels of Pathfinder Savant, which starts you off with 1 level not progressing spellcasting and hurts your BAB and Spiritualist class features). You do get Undead Anatomy up to III, so if some Undead form that I missed (and that legal for Undead Anatomy no more than III) has more than 2 arms, this could work.

avr wrote:
The magus spell list is much better as a high damage striker. The spiritualist list is all over the place. You can certainly do interesting things with it

It certainly has some interesting debuffs in it. Being able to do Spell Combat with things like Dismissal (Magus doesn't get this without Spell Blending or Greater Spell Access) could also be a life saver.

avr wrote:
No equivalent to spell recall so be careful how you use your spells. Also you could easily burn thru your ectoplasmic pool really fast, so be careful there too.

You don't really need Spell Recall as a spontaneous caster -- just try to avoid casting all the same level of spells, but if you do run out of a particular level and it isn't your highest one, you can use higher level spell slots.

51 to 61 of 61 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Building a 'tank' magus All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.