Stargazer domain question


Rules Questions


In the new player companion Paths of Righteousness there is the Stargazer prestige class. In the class description it states the following: 'At third level, the Stargazer gains the Star subdomain in addition to any domains that he already has. His stargazer levels count as (and stack with) cleric levels when determining which domain abilities he gains and their effects.' Does that mean that the domains that he has from being a cleric continue to progress when he takes a level of Stargazer or does this just apply to the Stars subdimain that he gains from the prestige class?


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Your domain abilities, Stars or otherwise, continue to advance. ^_^

(Otherwise, it would say "when determining which of the subdomain's abilities he gains and their effects", or something to that effect.)

Sovereign Court

So a level 5 cleric/level 3 stargazer has the level 8 abilities of his cleric domains.

Does he also immediately gain the level 8 abilities of his stargazer domain?

That's pretty neat. A prestige class that doesn't leave you with half-leveled domains :)


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That is correct, Ascalphus. (A witch/stargazer will have to wait until stargazer level 8.) Between that and the Mother sidereal arcana, a cleric will do very well for themselves.

Prestige classes catch a lot of flak for forcing you to abandon your original class's abilities; I can't speak for the rest of the authors, but I did my best to correct for that in my Paths of the Righteous work. ^_^


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The Stargazer is my favorite prestige class for Pathfinder - absolutely love it - perfect for my Sehanine priestess :)


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Ascalaphus wrote:
That's pretty neat. A prestige class that doesn't leave you with half-leveled domains :)

Full spellcasting, full domains (plus a third domain), and full channel energy (positive only).

In addition to a familiar, a hex (I suggest Heaven's Leap from the shaman spirit to get out of grapples or through cell bars), and some extra stuff later on, like initiative bonus or darkvision.
Even the skill investment is paid off after some time! The only downsides are d6 HD and that you have to worship a pretty crappy deity (although Separatist archetype can help with the domains). Well, and possibly lack of progression for archetype abilities, of course.

Isabelle Lee wrote:
Prestige classes catch a lot of flak for forcing you to abandon your original class's abilities; I can't speak for the rest of the authors, but I did my best to correct for that in my Paths of the Righteous work. ^_^

Indeed, I never paid much attention to prestige classes, because I felt that having two different sets of half baked class features doesn't relly help me make a coherent character.

As someone whose favourite song ever is Rainbow's Stargazer, I'm thrilled to finally have a Pathfinder option with that name that's actually good, and I absolutely love the prestige class. It's easily the most interesting thing in the whole book - I especially like that it works on multiple classes. Thank you ever so much for writing it!


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I just found the Stargazer, and it is AMAZING!

Its nice to see a PrC that advances base class abilities. And it works well with multiple base classes for qualification.

The bonus spells from the Stars subdomain functions as a good replacement for lost Bloodline/Mystery/Patron/Spirit spells. It stacks with familiar, domains, channel energy, hexes, revelations (partial), full spellcasting, plus Sidereal Arcana.

Seems like it would work well with Cleric, Sorcerer, Oracle, and Witch. Wizard and Shaman would work as well, perhaps not quite as well.

You could use it to add the Coven hex to any spellcasting class (YAY!) so potential covens have many more options. I hope if they do a Paths of the Wicked PrC book for evil, there is a class with a similar option for Mestama or Lamashtu.

One quick question, HD and BAB are normally linked in PF. This class has a d6HD but 3/4 BAB. Was this exception to the general rule intentional?


I'll have to check my notes (it's been a while since I wrote it), but it may have been intentional. It's meant to link most easily to cleric and witch, so it may have gotten some of each.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. ^_^


Checking my notes, the stargazer had 1/2 BAB when I turned it in. It apparently got an upgrade in development. ^_^


Isabelle Lee wrote:
Checking my notes, the stargazer had 1/2 BAB when I turned it in. It apparently got an upgrade in development. ^_^

Hmm...that's interesting.


Wow, I didn't even notice that - I even erroneously tagged it as 1/2 BAB in my spreadsheet.

It's not the first prestige class to break the mold, though - Agent of the Grave and Soul Warden are half BAB on d8, Champion of Irori and Justicar are full BAB on d8, and Hinterlander, Rage Prophet, and Dragon Disciple are medium BAB on d10 or d12. And of course, Avenger Vigilante and the Cardinal archetype for Cleric don't follow the pattern, either.

An interesting combination I've thought about would be a 1-level-dip into Stargazer on a Divine Scourge, to grab Cackle (Divine Scurge can get Evil Eye and Misfortune, but no Cackle).

@Isabelle Lee: Whom at Paizo do I have to threaten blackmail bribe beg to get Paths of the Wicked and Paths of the, um, Balanced(?) soley written by you?
Although one thing that bothers me about your work on PotR is Combat Expertise as a prereq for Strike True - without it, it would be a potentially useful feat for some a bit more exotic combat styles, but with it, I don't think anyone will ever use it. Also, a feat that lowers your attack roll and a feat that increases your attack roll are thematically opposite, so where is the connection? It makes no sense!


Derklord wrote:
@Isabelle Lee: Whom at Paizo do I have to threaten blackmail bribe beg to get Paths of the Wicked and Paths of the, um, Balanced(?) soley written by you?

You'll want to direct a request like that to James Jacobs, developer of Paths of the Righteous and other fine prestige class-related products. And thank you for the vote of confidence! ^_^

Also, you'll want to check out Adventurer's Guide - I had a hand in multiple new prestige classes in that book. (Those ones were built to support different themes, though... hopefully folks enjoy those as much as they have these ones.)

Derklord wrote:
Although one thing that bothers me about your work on PotR is Combat Expertise as a prereq for Strike True - without it, it would be a potentially useful feat for some a bit more exotic combat styles, but with it, I don't think anyone will ever use it. Also, a feat that lowers your attack roll and a feat that increases your attack roll are thematically opposite, so where is the connection? It makes no sense!

I put a fair amount of thought into that choice. I knew I wanted to have a combat-related feat as the prerequisite, ideally from the Core Rulebook. Strike True is all about careful focus and consideration. I selected Combat Expertise because, to my mind, it best represented the precise and careful approach to fighting that Strike True would develop from.

As for the thematic opposition, they work better together than it may seem on first glance. Since Strike True requires a move action to activate, you're only going to be making one attack in the round (ideally with Vital Strike or one of the heritor knight's standard-action attacks). That attack will be at your highest base attack bonus, however, and will also gain the +4 bonus from Strike True... giving you a lot of attack bonus to spare for use with effects like Combat Expertise. With a bonus like that, you might even be able to stack Combat Expertise and Power Attack on the same attack (and still hit with relative ease).

Hopefully this insight into the design process is helpful. ^_^


Isabelle Lee wrote:
I selected Combat Expertise because, to my mind, it best represented the precise and careful approach to fighting that Strike True would develop from. (...) That attack will (...) also gain the +4 bonus from Strike True... giving you a lot of attack bonus to spare for use with effects like Combat Expertise. With a bonus like that, you might even be able to stack Combat Expertise and...

Fair point from a mechanical point of view, but flavorwise I still think lowered accuracy and "perfect attack" go together to well. And I see two further problems: First, for most builds, Furious Focus serves the same porpose only significantly better (the benefit starts lower, but no tax feat and it still works if you have to move), and second, I don't see the need for a prereq feat at all. In my opinion as a rather balancing minded individual, I see the feat as relatively weak even without the prereq feat, as it has the same basic problem Vital Strike, Cleave et al. have: They are struggling to keep up with a full attack anyway, but once you get Haste, they simply fall behind way too far. I think that when a style is already behind, stuff improving it (moderately) should not further be taxed. If people want to combine Strike True with Power Attack and Combat Expertise, it should be their choice.


Necromancing this because... Does an oracle or other character with access to Heavens mystery revelations (such as a Ravener Hunter inquisitor) stack her levels with Stargazer levels for the purpose of revelation effects?


I don't think they do. The cleric stacking business is due to specific language in the stargazer's rules writeup. In general, oracle revelations only improve via further levels in oracle.


I wonder. Cleric levels stack for domains, and witch levels stack for hexes (ALL hexes, not only the ones received from the PrC), so why oracle levels don't?


I wrote:
His stargazer levels and cleric levels count as (and stack with) oracle levels when he is determining the effects of these revelations.

As per the bolded text in the stargazer prestige class, stargazer levels (and cleric levels) only advance the revelations granted by the prestige class.

As for why... the stargazer, like all of the prestige classes from its sourcebook, was designed to be specifically most advantageous for one or two base classes (clerics and witches, in this case). Any additional functionality was purely a bonus. If I were making it today, I might have done this (and a lot of other things) very differently. ^_^


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Thanks for the answer. ^_^ Pity for me, but I'll find a way.


I have what may be a stupid question: When the Stargazer says you gain the Stars Subdomain, is it JUST the subdomain portion, or is it the entire Void Domain as altered by Stars?


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There is no such thing as a "subdomain portion", a cleric domain always grants two domain powers and contains nine domain spells.

The stars subdomain has the Guarded Mind and The Stars Are Right powers, and the domain spell list is this: 1st—feather fall, 2nd—hypnotic pattern, 3rd—fly, 4th—planar binding (lesser), 5th—overland flight, 6th—planar binding, 7th—sunbeam, 8th—planar binding (greater), 9th—meteor swarm.


What Derklord said. ^_^


Oh, well that's pretty great then. Thanks!

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