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So after doing some research, I could not find a definite answer to this question, so I figured I'd post to get some feedback.
Background: I was playing around with the Monk of the Empty Hand archetype, and started to wonder if Improvised Weapon Mastery and Improved Critical stack.
Specifically, say a 10th level Monk of the Empty Hand has Improvised Weapon Mastery and Improved Critical (Quarterstaff). For arguments sake, say said monk has also taken Simple Weapon Proficiency as a feat. Would these feats stack when wielding an improvised quarterstaff?
For reference (bolded for emphasis):
You can turn nearly any object into a deadly weapon, from a razor-sharp chair leg to a sack of flour.
Prerequisites: Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised weapon. Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step (for example, 1d4 becomes 1d6) to a maximum of 1d8 (2d6 if the improvised weapon is two-handed). The improvised weapon has a critical threat range of 19–20, with a critical multiplier of ×2.
Attacks made with your chosen weapon are quite deadly.
Prerequisite: Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.
Special: You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.
I guess what it boils down to is whether Improvised Weapon Mastery expands the threat range (like the Keen weapon property or the Keen Edge spell), or if it just changes the base critical threat range, similar to how the Ascetic Strike feat says to use the unarmed damage of a monk four levels lower than your character level.
So, what say ye Paizo forumers? Why or why not?
My interpretation is that they wouldn't work together. Although the language is different for improvised weapon mastery, it does, in fact, expand upon the normal critical range of improvised weapons (usually 20/x2).
Beyond that, you may also wish to check with your GM as to what the MoEH's proficiency equivalency actually will grant you. Looking at the spell Flame Blade and how its “wield as if a scimitar,” has allowed for a number of interpretations as to how such a phrase should be read means that you might not be allowed to apply Improved Critical (quarterstaff) to your improvised weapon at all (though that wouldn't be my personal reading of it).
Finally, another thing to consider about the archetype, as I said prior, nothing about it actually grants you proficiency in improvised weapons, so until you get the opportunity to take Improvised Weapon Mastery at 6+, you'd be looking at a -4 penalty to attack rolls (unless I keep missing a something vital in my readings that negates this). This could be remedied by the feat Catch Off-Guard, or depending on how your GM treats that 'wield as if a...” phrase, Simple Weapon Proficiency.
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My interpretation is that they wouldn't work together. Although the language is different for improvised weapon mastery, it does, in fact, expand upon the normal critical range of improvised weapons (usually 20/x2).
Yes, I can certainly see this interpretation. But then, I can also see the opposite case where they would stack. Hence why I wanted other people's opinions. So thank you for yours.
Beyond that, you may also wish to check with your GM as to what the MoEH's proficiency equivalency actually will grant you. Looking at the spell Flame Blade and how its “wield as if a scimitar,” has allowed for a number of interpretations as to how such a phrase should be read means that you might not be allowed to apply Improved Critical (quarterstaff) to your improvised weapon at all (though that wouldn't be my personal reading of it).
Well, there is no GM at this time. I was bored, and when I'm bored and have the time for it, I tinker with new character ideas. However, I would agree with you when I read it, and that a quarterstaff is still a quarterstaff, even if you wield it as an improvised weapon, and thus such feats as Improved Critical and Weapon Focus still apply. However, I can see why someone else would view it differently.
Finally, another thing to consider about the archetype, as I said prior, nothing about it actually grants you proficiency in improvised weapons, so until you get the opportunity to take Improvised Weapon Mastery at 6+, you'd be looking at a -4 penalty to attack rolls (unless I keep missing a something vital in my readings that negates this). This could be remedied by the feat Catch Off-Guard, or depending on how your GM treats that 'wield as if a...” phrase, Simple Weapon Proficiency.
Yes, this is a minor issue. I think in James Jacobs' Ask Anything thread, he specified that it is highly implied that a Monk of the Empty Hand does not take any penalty with improvised weapons, and I certainly would agree. However, I'd probably still take Catch Off-Guard for the synergy of disarming weapons from enemies and then possibly making them flat-footed (the Dirty Fighting feat and flank for the win!).
Still, thank you once again for your opinion.
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Even setting aside the fact that Improved Critical never stacks with other crit range increases... this combination would never come up because there is no such thing as 'Improved Critical (Improvised Weapons)'. You can only take Improved Critical with an actual weapon that you have proficiency with.
If you are using a quarterstaff (or other actual weapon) as an improvised weapon then feats, class abilities, magic weapon properties, et cetera for that weapon type do not apply... it is an 'improvised weapon', not a quarterstaff. Thus, it benefits only from improvised weapon options.
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You could argue that Improvised Weapon Mastery doesn't expand the threat range of a weapon because it doesn't look at it's previous range, just sets it to a constant value.
But I think the standard assumption is that an improvised weapon has a 20/x2 threat range so this would always in practice be an expansion. So arguing that it technically isn't while effectively it always is, would be putting too fine a point on it.
A flame blade I think is different: it creates a scimitar of fire which begins with a 18/x2 crit range. It doesn't take a hypothetical 20/x2 fiery sword and then expand it to a scimitar, it just starts out there. So you could apply Improved Critical (scimitar) to it.
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
Definitely not an assumption, it's defined, which means that improvised weapon mastery definitely expands it.