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Unchained 2 Wishlist (hypothetical!)


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I had to put the parenthetical in the title because I really didn't want to get people excited. I do hope there is another Unchained someday, though, and I thought I'd start a list of things I hope to see in it.

  • A compiled fighter fix. I think a lot of good stuff for fighters has come out of late, but it would at the very least be nice to have it all compiled into one source so I could tell my players, "Use the Unchained Fighter."

  • Unchained monk archetypes. To be precise, proper conversions of the monk archetypes many see as a necessity for the class.

  • House rules to reduce the countless different types of buffs and the massive difficulty in tracking them. I would like to see at least one or two optional rulesets to help with this, as it's one of the chief problems of mid-to-high-level play.

  • Rules for monster PCs, for those who want them. And I mean, like, "monster class"-type stuff.

  • Variant rules for maimings and the like, or ways to reduce the frequency of death in your game. This and the last aren't really priorities for me, but they'd be neat.

  • Optional rules that tackle the spells often seen as "gamebreaking". I'm talking create water in deserts, light in games where darkness is an issue, and the higher-level ones. Maybe variant spell lists, even.

  • Sovereign Court

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    SIMULACRUM.

    Also, everything you said. Especially maimings.

    ...Especially maimings.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    Oh, maybe a bunch of stuff about how to accommodate markedly different PCs. It would be nice to have optional rules for PCs with disabilities, for instance. Or other uncommon traits, like humans with dwarfism/gigantism, people with albinism, etc.

    Hell, some fantasy disabilities could be cool, if we want to steer clear of the real world stuff. Elves whose buglike eyes can only see movement. Druids who have trouble controlling their minds when in wild shape. Sorcerers whose magic sometimes manifests spontaneously. Goblins who are born especially flammable. Gnomes who are abnormally vulnerable to bleaching, or who are confronted by visions of the First World at inopportune times. Half-orcs who sometimes enter deadly seizures after using their ferocity ability.


    Well, they could always release more alternate rules, provided that Unchained sold enough copies to justify a sequel.

    Kobold Cleaver wrote:
  • A compiled fighter fix. I think a lot of good stuff for fighters has come out of late, but it would at the very least be nice to have it all compiled into one source so I could tell my players, "Use the Unchained Fighter."
  • Right there with you. The Fighter really needs SOMETHING to make it stand out. Right now, the class is far too gear-dependant, offers little to no good bonus, has redundant features (seriously, you'll never use more than 2 weapons, so why have 5 groups?), has a lack of skills and... a lack of anything "special", "special" on par with rage, bardic performances, channel energy, wild shape, flurry, mercies, favored enemies, talents, bloodlines, schools, bombs, challenges, judgments, mysteries, eidolon, hexes, magic arcanaes, grits, tricks, exploits, bloodrage, martial flexibility, companion tricks, studied strikes, spirit animal, raging song, slayer talents, deeds, sacred weapon, blasts, spirits, stares, implements, disciplines, phantoms and identities.

    The Fighter's main feature is... he can learn several weapon groups... but they're not stackable. Sure there are archetypes, but... when the base class is so generic that an archetype is needed to become relevant, there's a problem. Maybe it needs "fighter talents", or special abilities that the fighter could take instead of a bonus combat feat, or maybe you pick a single weapon group, but you gain additional abilities specific to this group instead of picking another group.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I would love to see Unchained add optional temporary Emotional Conditions. Such as being Happy, In-Love, and Melancholic. And maybe some condition cards to go with it.


    Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

    I would be up for a completely different take on the Fighter. It makes me wonder; if they stripped out the legacy of a truckload of feats and had to design it from the ground up, what would they come up with?

    In the same vein as the above, I wonder what they would do to a Cleric? Keep it really close to the same, or perhaps vary the class more dramatically based on deity choice?

    Not to push a 3PP thing, but for monster classes do you mean something like Rite Publishing's "In the Company of..." series? I think some of that would be cool, otherwise we have some stuff in the back of the ARG to make approximates. Just forget about the point value of stuff in regards to balance and all that, we are talking about monsters here.

    I'm not really too interested in a conversion of monk archetypes since I've done some work for a few of them by just replacing levels that they gained some ki-powers with the abilities the archetype should give you.

    I had thought about making a system of minor/major injuries to push off when death occurs, but still give the players a reason not to run full tilt into stupid tactical decisions. I could be interested in seeing what they might do in regards to that. I do remember some system they had for damage lowering the effectiveness of your character in a general way though.

    I'm sure I could think of more given time, but my wonderful fellow forum-goers doubtless have many great ideas as well.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    1) Unchained cleric. If you start building a cleric, that's somewhat interesting: Which god? Which domains? Which subdomains? Positive or negative energy (in some cases)? But afterwards you just level, get your domain powers, all possible spells - so the only class dependent decision will be: What spells do I prepare today?

    I'd like a stronger emphasis on domain powers, deity specific spontaneous spells and maybe bonus feats depending on deity - rangers get this in Inner Sea Combat, actually.

    2) Official advice on games with higher power level, e.g. gestalt or bonus feats on each level (instead of just odd numbered ones).

    3) Official advice on games with capped level, e.g. E6.

    4) Simple grapple. Seriously, grapple rules are incredibly complicated if you are not used to them. I wrote an extract and it was still 46 lines.

    5) Interesting staves. A themed staff is nice on paper, but I feel players usually prefer a wand, because those do exactly what they want.


    The grapple rules are fine, in my opinion—the problem is the debuffs grappling applies, which do get confusing and tie into the "too many types of penalty/bonus" problem.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    Hm...

    -The Fighter Unchained. Primarily the purpose of this would simply to be making all the splatbook upgrades to the fighter official, as it were, but I wouldn't say no to a few tweaks to the chassis, like giving it a strong reflex save, 4+INT skills, and Heal and Perception as class skills. Because it always broke my immersion that fighters have bad reflexes despite being living weapons, or that a professional soldier, town watchman, or what have you wouldn't be good at looking around or treating an injury on the job. This also makes the skill options on Advanced Weapon and Armor training less mandatory to catch up to other classes skill-wise.

    -Cleric Unchained. As some others have mentioned, basically all your class features get locked in at level one, and while the Cleric is EXTREMELY powerful thanks to its spell list it's pretty darn bare-bones. Making domains do some more would be cool.

    -"Mighty Deeds" or something like that; an optional subsystem where you can use combat stamina to perform extremely impressive feats. A Mighty Deed consumes a lot of stamina, so you can't spam it, but you can do something normally impossible by expending all that stamina at once, like take a flying leap across a canyon or suplex a cloud giant.

    -Scaling feats; experiment with condensing down a number of feat chains to instead create feats that gain new behaviors and functions the higher your BAB gets

    -Perhaps related to the "Mighty Deeds" ruleset, just general rule suggestions for running a high-power or high-level game, and some corresponding rules for gritty low-power ones, so people that don't want a medieval superhero game have their rules and those that DO have theirs.

    -Expanded Tactics, or unconventional ways one can utilize combat maneuvers and such in and out of battle to make a maneuver specialist feel like less of a one-trick pony. Maybe also add some monster-wrangling type rules so that nobody feels obligated to go "wait, before I start training in tripping, are we going to be facing mostly medium humanoids this campaign?"


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    - "Official" take on E6,E8 and gestalt
    - Options for a low-magic game
    - Alternative divine magic system, different from arcane magic (maybe a magic system based of faith, the more you believe the more you can do magic, so it could be used in a world where gods don't exist)
    - critical and critical failures variants
    - rules for acquiring templates, and new templates for PCs.
    - suggestions on combinations of variants rules in order to do different game styles. (example : Automatic bonus progression from unchained 1, E6 from unchained 2, wild magic, this and that, for a low magic sword and sorcery system, and so on...)
    - archetypes using variant rules or unchained classes
    - list of spells "bannable" for different degrees of magic (from create water, to extra planar teleportation spells, and detect evil)
    - variant rules to stunt a guard in a hit from behind, to murder someone in one hit, this sort of thing not easy with hp.
    - A method to generate NPC quickly
    - Alternate NPC classes with VERY LOW BAB, so an expert can be a 15th level master crafter without being a good fighter.
    - Alternate rules on races to distinguish physionomy and culture (a dwarf adopted by elves could gain proficiency in bows and elven weapons but not immunity to sleep for example but won't have stone cunning)


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I would appreciate seeing a modified version of Blackwaltzomega's "Mighty Deeds" idea, maybe something along the line of "Stunts". Basically, "awesome stuff martials can do outside of combat", with an eye towards making them not be totally dependent on spells. Spend points to do things like improve their climbing ability (make handholds and travel up at decent speeds?), land safely while falling, sharpen their senses, jump further, protect themselves from spells, use their physique to help in social situations... there's a lot of stuff you could do to help martial characters be more flexible in resolving challenges without overshadowing others.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    mekka wrote:
    - variant rules to stunt a guard in a hit from behind, to murder someone in one hit, this sort of thing not easy with hp.

    I was reluctant to say it because I knew the "play a different system" people would turn up if I did, but yeah, it would be nice to have alternate systems that enable the old "lucky shot" that grittier systems can have you vulnerable to. Maybe some sort of special exploding dice system? Or a simple house rule that just reduces the numbers involved so HP are less of a big deal?

    Grand Lodge

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    I would like to see a more fully re-worked fighter rather than just "here's the rules from several splatooks all put together"

    A few things I think they should get are: Increased base skill points, better saves (I can see arguments for all 3 saves being "good"), and reduce the number of weapon groups that exist into broader groups, as well as more things you can do with your weapon training


    Yeah, breaking down the Weapon Groups into something simple like "Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing, and Ranged" (or Hafted, Bladed, ???, Ranged?) would be cool. The Fighter then becomes a true weapon master by 17th, receiving all his class perks on all weapons from every group by the end. Assuming you keep Weapon Training at all, of course.

    The ideal Fighter would be a flexible warrior that can participate at least a little in all aspects of combat. Buffing and directing allies with abilities like Inspire Courage and the Cavalier's tactician ability, both ranged and melee combat, anti-magic via things like Spell Sunder and the Smash From The Air Feat. It would also require skills to participate in more indirect combat, psychological warfare and large scale troop movements, where best to send your sappers to weaken the enemy defenses and the ability to size up an opponent's abilities.

    The Armor/Weapon Master's Handbooks along with Melee/Range Tactics Toolbox book and 3PP products like the Talented Fighter go in the right direction, but ALL suffer from being chained (ha) to the base Fighter chassis, relying on stuff like trading in Weapon Training bonuses and Feats to grant new abilities, resulting in a Fighter that has more to it...and is STILL less than if peers because it's trading like for like instead of adding on to its tiny range of abilities in the first place.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    Oh, maybe fixes for the more disastrous archetypes, while we're at it. The Master Summoner, the Synthesis Summoner, maybe some of the archetypes that failed at what they wanted to do...

    It would be nice to finally get the Harrow Medium, too.


    I'd like to see feat trees that are streamlined with the options that are generally considered poor either eliminated, made basic options, or combined with other feats.

    Like there's no reason you couldn't combine dodge and mobility into one feat; dodge on its own is mildly useful but generally not worth a feat, and mobility is even worse.

    Also please unchain the whip and/or scorpion whip.


    And how about simplified weapons? Just make a few broad varieties, like I think 5E does.


    An "Advanced Player's Guide Classes Revisited" or some such wouldn't be a bad idea. I love most of them, particularly Inquisitor and Alchemist, but some (ESPECIALLY Alchemist) could use some cleaning up and clarifying of how all its abilities work as a weird hybrid of lass feature and item that is spellcasting whenever it's disadvantageous but not when it WOULD be to the Alchemist's advantage.

    The Magus could use some tweaking to more evoke the image people have of a mage-warrior, without the intense focus on being all Dex all the time with 1H weapons and light armor. Removing the one-handed weapon only restriction from Spell Combat would go a long way towards that, with medium armor from day 1 (and maybe a Heavy upgrade slightly later) and some other quality of life tweaks that make it less pigeonholed into one build to rule them all.

    The Witch could use some buff-nerfing too in the same vein, removing or changing the "Misfortune Sleep I win...or it doesn't work and I'm worthless" paradigm of the class and making it more broadly applicable.

    Making a lot of the Oracle mysteries more balanced with each other would be good.

    The Gunslinger and Cavalier could easily be written as archetypes or Alternate Classes of whatever the new Unchained Fighter looks like, benefiting from all the tweaks made to that base chassis and becoming actually interesting enough that people would take more than 5 levels of Gunslinger and hopefully remember the Cavalier even EXISTS.

    That could make up a whole book though since the only class I think is basically perfect there is the Inquisitor.


    1. Unchained Action Economy Part 2.

    Same thing as the last book, but go into further detail on some things, like certain feats that reduce an action from a Move to a Swift. Both of those are single Acts, so they have no function as-is, and making them free actions would be too much most of the time.

    It works as-is, and it's great most of the time, but a second coat of polish wouldn't hurt.

    2. Magic Unchained.
    Bye bye vancian.
    This would probably need a huge number of pages dedicated to it, but it's worth a shot.

    3. Compilations
    Various skill check details have been detailed across multiple splatbooks. Putting them all in one place would be great, even if there's no additional information added.
    Lots of other things would be useful if they were compiled too.

    4. Multiclassing revisited
    Variant Multiclassing was okay. Let's do some more with it.

    5. Feat tax reduction
    Not much to say here.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    An overhaul on animal companions, mounts and eidolons so they aren't a full bonus PC.


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    JiCi wrote:
    The Fighter's main feature is... he can learn several weapon groups... but they're not stackable. Sure there are archetypes, but... when the base class is so generic that an archetype is needed to become relevant, there's a problem. Maybe it needs "fighter talents", or special abilities that the fighter could take instead of a bonus combat feat, or maybe you pick a single weapon group, but you gain additional abilities specific to this group instead of picking another group.

    Working on improving my current Unchained Fighter. Standby...

    **EDIT**

    Here we are. A basic rundown of the revised class:

    -Has access to Tenacity and Combat Arts, which can provide bonus feats as normal, and other extraneous in-combat (and some out-of-combat) abilities.

    -Consolidated most Fighter-only feats into stronger versions of said feats, and turned them into class features, and treat said class features as Fighters possessing the feats. Fighters cannot select Fighter-only feats as a result.

    -Improved existing features, such as Weapon Training, Bravery (now Steely Resolve), and Armor Training (now Defensive Training), and so on to match the power provided by other high-end Martial classes; these features are synonymous with their new names (and effects), and therefore are 100% archetype compatible (by using identical text from existing Unchained classes).

    -Added other features, such as Veteran's Training, letting Fighters skills that either do or do not possess ranks, allowing better out-of-combat contributions.

    Let me know what you guys think!


    Kobold Cleaver wrote:
    An overhaul on animal companions, mounts and eidolons so they aren't a full bonus PC.

    Or at least truly make them so. As-is levels 1-8 or so they rock everything forever, and after that are dead meat. They swing from too strong to useless over the course of the game. A flatter growth curve could fix that, weaker at lower levels and stronger at higher ones.


    Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
    JiCi wrote:
    The Fighter's main feature is... he can learn several weapon groups... but they're not stackable. Sure there are archetypes, but... when the base class is so generic that an archetype is needed to become relevant, there's a problem. Maybe it needs "fighter talents", or special abilities that the fighter could take instead of a bonus combat feat, or maybe you pick a single weapon group, but you gain additional abilities specific to this group instead of picking another group.

    Working on improving my current Unchained Fighter. Standby...

    **EDIT**

    Here we are. A basic rundown of the revised class:

    -Has access to Tenacity and Combat Arts, which can provide bonus feats as normal, and other extraneous in-combat (and some out-of-combat) abilities.

    -Consolidated most Fighter-only feats into stronger versions of said feats, and turned them into class features, and treat said class features as Fighters possessing the feats. Fighters cannot select Fighter-only feats as a result.

    -Improved existing features, such as Weapon Training, Bravery (now Steely Resolve), and Armor Training (now Defensive Training), and so on to match the power provided by other high-end Martial classes; these features are synonymous with their new names (and effects), and therefore are 100% archetype compatible (by using identical text from existing Unchained classes).

    -Added other features, such as Veteran's Training, letting Fighters skills that either do or do not possess ranks, allowing better out-of-combat contributions.

    Let me know what you guys think!

    That's... pretty impressive :)

    I was thinking on a similar route, with the fighter picking a single weapon group at 1st level and gaining special abilities related to said weapon group at whatever level increment.

    That's basically WHAT the fighter needs: a specialization, and no, picking a weapon doesn't "make" a specilized fighter this much.


    Given Unchained provides alternate rules I would like to see Magic Unchained:

    1- Alternatives to the spell slots per level, aka vancian magic

    2- Sorcerer Unchained

    3- Cleric Unchained

    4- Metamagic Unchained,


    I appreciate the Veteran's Training feature there. o wo Fighters are really good in combat to begin with, and they most need help outside the battlefield, after all. XD

    Shadow Lodge

    Cleric Unchained

    Maybe making Divine Magic a Spell Point system so that Arcane, Divine, and Psychic magic are all different.

    An overhaul of the basic design of the way spells work increasing the minimume effect while decreasing the maximum effect. Hopefully, this might make it less beneficial to max out casting stats as much, especially for SAD casters, and make spells feel similar to crits, (its uncommon, but when it fully works, its awesome).

    Varient Skills system not based on Int.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    What would you replace the skills with? Aside from being a casting stat for some classes, Int's main role in the game is providing skill points - take that out and there's honestly not much left.


    GM Rednal wrote:
    I appreciate the Veteran's Training feature there. o wo Fighters are really good in combat to begin with, and they most need help outside the battlefield, after all. XD

    Don't forget that effects like Empowering Presence would be able to help you and your allies perform skills both inside and outside combat, and certain Combat Arts (such as Feign Death) have plausible out of combat uses.

    **EDIT** I kind-of sort-of lied about Feign Death being plausible at first, but it occurred to me that effects like that could have out-of-combat uses, so it made sense to alter it to have an out-of-combat function as well.


    fighter(many buffs needed), paladin(remove alignment restiction without gimping the paladin like gray paladin does), antipaladin and ninja unchained maybe a class with d20hd and highdefences but low damage potential


    I'd love to see a full revisit of all Core classes + Antipaladin and Ninja. Unchained Fighter is a priority, but an Unchained Cleric (with better, balanced domains) is also pretty high-up on the list. Maybe a slightly reworked UBarbarian that is simple to use and roughly as powerful as the regular Barbarian. The stance powers are action economy killers at higher levels. Also: Paladins for all corner alignments (with a few extra skill points?). Maybe even with oaths baked in as a selectable class feature. This would make me a happier person. Perhaps an unchained Wizard who is actually a school specialist, and gets extra bonuses for school spells, but with harsher penalties to opposition schools? A little love for the Universalist school would also be amazing. A mildly more Oracle-y Sorcerer would be fun. Also, getting new spell levels at the same speed as Wizards would make life better. Ranger is pretty solid as-is, but I'd appreciate if there was a single Favored Enemy and a single Favored Terrain bonus, instead of improving each enemy or terrain separately. Druid is rather powerful, but it's not incredibly brokenly powerful. Maybe more unified nature-themed boosts (what is a Thousand Faces supposed to be, anyways?). Bard is solid, but I'd appreciate if the spellcasting was more connected to the performance - perhaps you could cast any spell you want (and know) as part of a performance, without needing spell slots, although highest-level spells would require an additional action just spent performing.

    Also, a better gun rules system and a revised Gunslinger (and various gun-related archetypes, perhaps?) would be fun. Making guns less unbalanced and making crossbows viable for higher-level play would be fun.

    I'd second overhauling the skill system in some way. Not all skills seem to be created equal, or even competitive, and same for the stats the skills are based on.


    The comprehensive Stealth rules they were working on a couple years ago.

    Updated conditions such as "hidden" and "flanked".

    Shadow Lodge

    GM Rednal wrote:
    What would you replace the skills with? Aside from being a casting stat for some classes, Int's main role in the game is providing skill points - take that out and there's honestly not much left.

    Im not sure. Ive toyed with an idea off simply offering one skill rank per ability mod for skills that use that ability score, (so a +3 Cha could allow 1 rank in Bluff, Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, etc. . .) except that PF did away with Con skills, so it would hurt Barbs a lot.

    Another possibility might be to simply offer each class a set amount of Skill Points, with perhaps a built in free rank(s) for a few expected Skills, (like Spellcraft for Wizards).

    My understanding is that this is the goal for Starfinder, where they do not want the equivalent of the Wizard with nearly the same amount of Skill Points as the Bard or Rogue.


    Two things, one is definitely an unchained fighter, as has been already said, while the other is a new weapons system, similar to Kirth's where your proficiency level determines statistics of a weapon. I.e. somebody with simple weapon proficiency can use a spear as a two handed weapon 1d8/x3. Someone with martial proficiency can use it one handed and thrown 1d8/x3, and someone with exotic w.proficiency can use it as one-handed, thrown and brace weapon 1d8/x3 or two handed 1d12/x3.


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    It'd be nice to have some parrying rules. Maybe finally save the sword-and-boarder.

    Simplified cover rules.


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    How did I forget this—

    LIGHT RULES THAT AREN'T A PAIN IN THE FUDGIN' ARSE

    :P


    1 person marked this as a favorite.


    • Combat Unchained (an overhaul of the combat maneuvers and new additional viable combat options for a martial, instead of just "I attack". Blocking, parrying, things to make a decision over and way your options. Any martial character should have an arsenal of diverse combat options).
    • Weapons Unchained (To complement or be a part of the Combat Unchained rules. Make almost every weapon viable. A wild difference between axes and daggers in play-style, not only in their numbers. Making Crossbows deadly but not only about re-loading it quickly. And thrown weapons...).
    • Alternate health (rules that removes the absolute necessity of CLW (healing) wands. Maybe moving it over to something more mundane, like resting and fixing your armor between encounters instead of just paying for a magic stick).
    • Alternate Spellcasting (instead of the vancian system, maybe something like the Kineticist).
    • Alternate Metamagic (to go with the Alternate Spellcasting rules, preferably).
    • Scaling Feats (I'm currently house ruling the save feats and Shield Focus to scale, makes them much more attractive when they don't just give petty bonuses).

    EDITED


    Rub-Eta wrote:

    • Alternate health (rules that removes the absolute necessity of CLW (healing) wands. Maybe moving it over to something more mundane, like resting and fixing your armor between encounters instead of just paying for a magic stick)

    EDITED

    so something like 5e's short rest long rest thing were you short rest and regain some hit points durring an adventuring day and then long rest at the end recovering all hitpoints? i really wouldnt mind having that added into the game system


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    I'm not too keen on more Unchained Classes. But I do feel like the Cleric deserves an overhaul - there's almost no difference between an Asmodean diabolist and a priest of Desna. The gods and domains should be different enough to allow a party with several clerics, of the same god, with wildly different builds.

    The Sorcerer suffers from much old content, tons of options but that aren't quite as attractive and updated as you'd like.

    While I love the Bard as-is, I would like more options and more customization as well. A de-buffing witch-doctor-shaman-esq character with tambourines. A war-drumming orc who thrashes his enemies with his drumsticks and inspires rage into his comrades. The singing, fencing, buffing group leader. The battlefield controlling caster violinist. Though I'm not sure this is required to be solved by Unchaining the Bard class.


    Lady-J wrote:
    Rub-Eta wrote:

    • Alternate health (rules that removes the absolute necessity of CLW (healing) wands. Maybe moving it over to something more mundane, like resting and fixing your armor between encounters instead of just paying for a magic stick)

    EDITED
    so something like 5e's short rest long rest thing were you short rest and regain some hit points durring an adventuring day and then long rest at the end recovering all hitpoints? i really wouldnt mind having that added into the game system

    Perhaps. I have a limited experience from 5E. I really liked the fighter's self-healing, though.


    1) Unchained Base Classes for everything.
    2) Variant Multiclass Archetypes or Alternate features. So that VMC isn't just the same buffs. Maybe a VMC take two?
    3) Fighter Unchained - Bring the stuff from the Players Companions into an actual Hardbound book.
    4)

    Bonus) Word of Power Rehaul - I loved the concept of this system, but it really needed some more oomph to it.


    Vote me in for Unchained Cleric. Clerics as they are now are powerful, no doubt there, but they aren't very interesting. Or rather, they aren't as interesting as they ought to be given the sheer amount of god stuff in the lore. You can make clerics of Calistria! Of Groetus! Of Asmodeus! Of Desna! Of Iomedae!... and they all play largely the same way. Domain abilities are cool but rarely more than a minor boost, and you don't get enough domain spells to make them really build-defining.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

    It would be nice to see alternate multi-classing rules for the other classes.

    Unchained versions of the Bard, Cleric, Fighter, Samurai, Sorcerer, and Wizard.

    Rules for campaigns with no armor. Maybe getting monk like AC bonus(highest mental stats not just wisdom) for any class that has armor prof. built in or a natural armor bonus based on what type of armor(light, medium, or heavy) you are prof. with, or maybe a mage armor like effect whose bonus is based on your class or class group(martial, caster, etc.).

    Alternate rules for combat maneuvers.

    Alternate rules for metamagic, maybe they use a mechanic like burn instead of higher spell slots.


    Darche Schneider wrote:


    Variant Multiclass Archetypes or Alternate features. So that VMC isn't just the same buffs. Maybe a VMC take two?

    yes plz also make vmc a pool of abilities you get to choose from instead and make it so you can have between 3 and 5 abilities instead of a mandatory 5 so you have more room to work with your feats


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

    It would be nice to pick and choose, I would like that a lot better then archetypes and multi-classing(standard or unchained).

    Sovereign Court

    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    For those looking for a more deity-specific cleric experience, I highly recommend the divine paragon archetype (from Divine Anthology). It might not be everyone's cup of tea mechanically, but I'm a big fan of it. ^_^

    Shadow Lodge

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    The Cleric really needs a redo on multiple levels. Aside from allowing for more relevant differences between Clerics of different faiths and builds, the class really needs a redesign to make it Archetype friendly and to allow for more Gear and Feats designed for them.


    I would love to see Unchained versions of the Eldritch Knight and Mystic Theurge (and possibly Arcane Trickster, although the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat has fixed most of its issues). The prestige classes missed the love that the base classes got in the conversion from 3.5 to Pathfinder. Lower their prerequisites, add in a selection of powers (in a similar fashion to Rage Powers or Rogue Talents) selectable every other level, and they'd add a whole slew of cool new combinations.


    DM Beckett wrote:
    The Cleric really needs a redo on multiple levels. Aside from allowing for more relevant differences between Clerics of different faiths and builds, the class really needs a redesign to make it Archetype friendly and to allow for more Gear and Feats designed for them.

    If anything, the Cleric desperately needs class features that involve making choices you didn't make at character generation. Other than "Spells and feats" you make pretty much all your choices at character generation. I mean, you choose two domains at level 1 and get 2 powers and 2 more level 8. We could still give clerics 4 things over 8 levels, and allow them to make choices as they arrive rather than all of them at level 1.

    Honestly, as a philosophy of class unchaining, replacing class features that grant powers without choices (looking at you Deed system) with class features that grant periodic choice of powers is good policy.


    i also wouldnt mind them introducing more stuff for channeling


    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    DM Beckett wrote:
    The Cleric really needs a redo on multiple levels. Aside from allowing for more relevant differences between Clerics of different faiths and builds, the class really needs a redesign to make it Archetype friendly and to allow for more Gear and Feats designed for them.

    If anything, the Cleric desperately needs class features that involve making choices you didn't make at character generation. Other than "Spells and feats" you make pretty much all your choices at character generation. I mean, you choose two domains at level 1 and get 2 powers and 2 more level 8. We could still give clerics 4 things over 8 levels, and allow them to make choices as they arrive rather than all of them at level 1.

    Honestly, as a philosophy of class unchaining, replacing class features that grant powers without choices (looking at you Deed system) with class features that grant periodic choice of powers is good policy.

    I think the Deed system is alright for the most part, since it avoids the worst pitfalls of other class features. You have a limited amount of uses, but they are recoverable. Most of the abilities are active abilities, and the ones that give basically-passive bonuses are passives. You get all abilities listed, instead of a limited selection that you have to change day-by-day, or worse, a limited selection that is permanent. There are no chained prerequisites involved or need to spend gold to get class features. It's not limited by any prerequisite stats, either. The only thing necessary to use a deed is to have the class weapon, have a high enough level, and have some resource left.

    Although perhaps there could be in-class specialization of deeds? So you could do basically any deed at -4 or something, but you could specialize in one that lets you do it at no penalty, or for free (before you get to the level of Signature Deed), or with some extra effect, or just plain faster? (Gunslinger dodge as a free action, 1/round, Starling Shot as a move, or Targeting as a standard?)

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