Elemental Bloodline Sorcerer's Elemental Blast and How It Interacts With Energy Resistance


Rules Questions


Regarding one of the Elemental Bloodline Sorcerer's Bloodline Powers, the Core Rulebook wrote:
Elemental Blast (Sp): At 9th level, you can unleash a blast of elemental power once per day. This 20-foot-radius burst does 1d6 points of damage of your energy type per sorcerer level. Those caught in the area of your blast receive a Reflex save for half damage. Creatures that fail their saves gain vulnerability to your energy type until the end of your next turn. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. At 9th level, you can use this ability once per day. At 17th level, you can use this ability twice per day. At 20th level, you can use this ability three times per day. This power has a range of 60 feet.

Does this vulnerability temporarily supersede a creature's resistance to the sorcerer's energy type?


Vulnerability wrote:
A creature with vulnerabilities takes half again as much damage (+50%) from a specific energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure. Creatures with a vulnerability that is not an energy type instead take a –4 penalty on saves against spells and effects that cause or use the listed vulnerability (such as spells with the light descriptor). Some creatures might suffer additional effects, as noted in their descriptions.

They take extra damage. It does not ignore any resistances or immunities. The 50% bonus damage might overcome resistance (if the damage before didn't beat it) but that's just a side effect of doing more damage.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
They take extra damage. It does not ignore any resistances or immunities. The 50% bonus damage might overcome resistance (if the damage before didn't beat it) but that's just a side effect of doing more damage.

So the resistance remains then, yes?

For example, the sorcerer casts an elemental blast (fire) against a creature with fire resistance 10. The elemental blast deals 100 points of damage, the creature fails its save, gains vulnerability to fire and, after adding the extra damage for that vulnerability and applying the resistance, the creature takes 140 points of fire damage.

The next round, the sorcerer casts a fireball against the same creature. The fireball deals 100 points of fire damage, the creature fails it save and, after applying the extra damage from vulnerability and reducing the total damage by the resistance, the creature takes 140 points of fire damage.

The creature's fire resistance is not suppressed or ignored, correct?

I'm just using 100 as a nice, round number that's easy to work with; not implying a sorcerer could deal 100 points of damage with a fireball.


GM Eazy-Earl wrote:
The creature's fire resistance is not suppressed or ignored, correct?

Correct.

It is possible for a creature to have both a vulnerability and a resistance to the same element.

For instance, a Red Dragon could cast Resist Energy (cold) on itself to help mitigate it's vulnerability to that energy type.


GM Eazy-Earl wrote:
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
They take extra damage. It does not ignore any resistances or immunities. The 50% bonus damage might overcome resistance (if the damage before didn't beat it) but that's just a side effect of doing more damage.

So the resistance remains then, yes?

For example, the sorcerer casts an elemental blast (fire) against a creature with fire resistance 10. The elemental blast deals 100 points of damage, the creature fails its save, gains vulnerability to fire and, after adding the extra damage for that vulnerability and applying the resistance, the creature takes 140 points of fire damage.

The next round, the sorcerer casts a fireball against the same creature. The fireball deals 100 points of fire damage, the creature fails it save and, after applying the extra damage from vulnerability and reducing the total damage by the resistance, the creature takes 140 points of fire damage.

The creature's fire resistance is not suppressed or ignored, correct?

I'm just using 100 as a nice, round number that's easy to work with; not implying a sorcerer could deal 100 points of damage with a fireball.

I believe they gain the vulnerability after they take damage, so any following attack(s),before the end of your next turn, gets the +50%, not the original attack


Scrapper wrote:
I believe they gain the vulnerability after they take damage, so any following attack(s),before the end of your next turn, gets the +50%, not the original attack

The description of the power states the vulnerability is gained when the save is failed. That would be before any damage is taken from the initial elemental blast, yes? I'd be of the opinion that a failed save for the elemental blast would result in vulnerability to the elemental blast.


GM Eazy-Earl wrote:
Scrapper wrote:
I believe they gain the vulnerability after they take damage, so any following attack(s),before the end of your next turn, gets the +50%, not the original attack
The description of the power states the vulnerability is gained when the save is failed. That would be before any damage is taken from the initial elemental blast, yes? I'd be of the opinion that a failed save for the elemental blast would result in vulnerability to the elemental blast.

So basicly Save for Half or take 150%? That really sounds absurd!


Scrapper wrote:
So basicly Save for Half or take 150%? That really sounds absurd!

No more absurd than an empowered spell. Elemental blast is really just a modified, bloodline-specific version of an empowered fireball, except one does not take the additional empowered damage on a successful save (making it less powerful than an empowered fireball) and there is no cap on the amount of damage dice it deals (making it potentially more powerful than an empowered fireball). Yes, it does give the target(s) vulnerability to its energy type for that and the next round, but it can never be cast more than three times per day (most sorcerers will only be able to cast it once a day and, even then, not until they reach 9th level).

In my opinion, very balanced and not absurd at all.


Sequence of events seems to be
- You're hit by the blast
- You roll your save
- You take damage

If this is correct, I'd say you're stuck with the vulnerability if you fail your save, and so take 50% or 150%.

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