Metamagic Feats without a corresponding rod

[Gallant Armor]

Here is a list of all of the Metamagic Feats I could find that don't have a rod:

Aquatic Spell:

An aquatic spell functions normally when underwater and requires no caster level check to cast, even if it possesses the [fire] descriptor. In addition, the spell can be cast from the surface into water and still be effective.
Level: 1

Brisk Spell:

You can alter spells that grant a creature a movement type it doesn't normally have to increase the speed for that movement type by 10 feet.
Level: 0
Prereq: Dex 13+

Coaxing Spell:

A mind-affecting spell modified by this feat affects mindless oozes and vermin as if they weren't mindless.
Level: 2
Prereq: Spell Focus (enchantment), Knowledge(dungeoneering) 6 ranks.

Consecrate Spell:

Spell is maximized against evil creatures and creatures with the evil subtype.
Level: 2

Contagious Spell:

A caster level check to dispel or remove a contagious spell that fails by 5 or more causes it to spread from the original target to the creature that attempted to remove it. The spell spreads to the new target regardless of its normal range or any special targeting requirement like a melee or ranged touch attack. The spell is treated as if you had just cast it on the new target. The new target receives a saving throw or the benefit of spell resistance (if applicable) if the spell normally allows it.
Level: 2

Encouraging Spell:

Any morale bonus granted by an encouraging spell is increased by 1.
Level: 1
Prereq: Cha 13, Diplomacy 6 ranks

Fearsome Spell:

Spell damage causes the shaken condition
Level: 2

Fleeting Spell:

Dismiss spell more easily
Level: 0

Furious Spell:

Spell deals more damage and can be cast while in a rage
Level: 1

Heighten Spell:

Treat spell as a higher level
Level: Special

Intuitive Spell:

Cast spell without thought components
Level: 1

Jinxed Spell:

A creature that fails its saving throw against a jinxed spell also suffers the effects of your jinx.
Level: 1
Prereq: Any two metamagic feats, Halfling Jinx trait.

Logical Spell:

Cast spell without emotion components
Level: 1

Scarring Spell:

Emotion or fear spell gives penalties against further such spells
Level: 1

Scouting Summons:

When casting a conjuration (summoning) spell that summons a single creature, you can possess the creature as per magic jar (but with no receptacle necessary).
Level: 2
Prereq: Spell Focus (conjuration), ability to cast magic jar

Seeking Spell:

A seeking spell's range can bend around obstacles to reach the intended target.
Level: 2

Shadow Grasp:

Entangle creatures with spells you cast that have the [darkness] descriptor.
Level: 1
Prereq: Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell

Solar Spell:

Spells you cast with the [light] descriptor are fortified with the cleansing energies of the sun.
Level: 1

Solid Shadows:

When casting greater shadow conjuration, greater shadow evocation, shadow conjuration, or shadow evocation (and, at the GM's discretion, any similar spell with the [shadow] descriptor that mimics a spell of another school), that spell is 20% more real then normal.
Level: 1
Prereq: Spell Focus (illusion)

Studied Spell:

Spell uses Knowledge to bypass racial resistances
Level: 2

Stylized Spell:

Spell is difficult to identify and might be mistaken for a similar spell
Level: 1
Prereq: Bluff 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks

Tenacious Spell:

Spell is difficult to dispel and remains for 1d4 rounds
Level: 1

Tenebrous Spell:

Spells you cast in dim light or darkness are harder to resist or dispel.
Level: 0

Threatening Illusion:

Cause a target to believe your illusion is a threat.
Level: 1
Prereq: Spell Focus (illusion), gnome

Toxic Spell:

You can use 1 dose of contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury poison as an additional material component for a spell you cast. This spell gains the poison descriptor. Select a single creature affected by the spell. If that creature fails its saving throw against the spell, it must also attempt a saving throw against the poison used as a material component. If the target fails the save against the poison, the poison takes effect immediately, ignoring any onset time. The poison uses its save DC (rather than the save DC of the spell), but is modified by any effects that increase the spell's DC (such as Spell Focus). This feat works only with spells whose effects can be negated by a successful Fortitude save.
Level: 1
Prereq: Craft (poison) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level spells, poison use class feature

Traumatic Spell:

Emotion or fear spell causes nightmares
Level: 2

Trick Spell:

Only enchantment spells that affect a single target and can be negated with a successful Will save can be trick spells. If the target fails its Will save against a trick spell, in addition to the spell's normal effects, the target also clumsily hinders itself. Immediately attempt a special combat maneuver check (1d20 + your caster level + your Charisma bonus) to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver against the target. Any feats you have that apply to dirty trick maneuvers (such as Greater Dirty Trick) also apply to this check.
Level: 1
Prereq: Ability to cast 1st-level spells, chaotic neutral alignment, worshiper of a deity of trickery, lust, and revenge

Umbral Spell:

Spell gains the [darkness] descriptor and target of the spell radiates darkness in 10-foot radius while the spell is in effect.
Level: 2
Prereq: Tenebrous Spell

Vast Spell:

You can alter a spell that targets a number of creatures no more than 30 feet apart, such as haste. The maximum distance apart of those you target with the spell increases to 60 feet.
Level: 1
Prereq: CL 3

Verdant Spell:

A mind-affecting spell affects plant creatures (even mindless plant creatures) as if they weren't immune to mind-affecting effects, but has no effect on other types of creatures.
Level: 2
Prereq: Spell Focus (enchantment), Knowledge(nature) 6 ranks

Widen Spell:

You double the affected spells area of effect
Level: 3

Yai-Mimic Spell:

You can shoot ray spells from your head, you require no somatic components when doing so, and you gain regeneration.
Level: 3
Prereq: Int 15, Still Spell

Do we assume these rods don't exist for a reason, or would you allow them to exist in your game (either all or case-by-case)? Some of these feats have pre-requisites that could cause the rod to either be more expensive or preclude it altogether.

[Chess Pwn]

Rules are they don't exist.

[ryric]

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

[Gilfalas]

At least for Heighten Spell I don't think you can make a rod for it. It's very nature is that it is a variable level increase which results in an actual spell level change. The rules for metamagic rods so far have been pretty standard in their classifications as lesser, standard and greater and their pricing based on the level increase that the rod's metamagic normally costs to the spell slot.

Only way I could see doing it with Heighten would be a rod of 3 charges assuming a +8 level adjustment when working out pricing. Which I think takes it into 'epic/myhtic' pricing to create.

[Baval]

most of these dont exist because no one has bothered to make them. For strictly Paizo play, they dont exist. Most of them would be fine to custom magic item though.

[Gallant Armor]

ryric wrote:

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

It exists

[TarrasqueEsque]

Widen exist as well.

[Gallant Armor]

TarrasqueEsque wrote:

Widen exist as well.

There is some question as to whether or not it exists from what I can tell. It is listed on the table here but it has no description like the other rods on the list. It could be an mistake that the description was left out or a mistake that it was included on the table.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Gallant Armor wrote:

Here is a list of all of the Metamagic Feats I could find that don't have a rod:

I assume the issue with some of these are their prerequisites: Making a feat difficult to take but just as easy to get through a rod is a bit unbalanced (Consecrate Spell, for instance, is really cheap compared to Maximize Spell if you can just ignore the 'Aasimar, able to prepare or cast consecrate' prereqs)

[Nefreet]

Ever since Ultimate Equipment there's been no need to list Metamagic Rods individually.

A Minor, +1 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 3000gp.
A Minor, +2 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 9000gp.
A Normal, +1 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 11000gp.
Etc.

[Grailknight]

Most of them don't exist for the simple reason that the feats were printed after Ultimate Equipment.

[Gallant Armor]

Nefreet wrote:

Ever since Ultimate Equipment there's been no need to list Metamagic Rods individually.

A Minor, +1 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 3000gp.
A Minor, +2 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 9000gp.
A Normal, +1 Spell Level Metamagic Rod is 11000gp.
Etc.

I think this is a reasonable home rule, but I haven't seen anything official that would allow it. The page you linked lists individual rods at the bottom which seems to indicate that only some metamagic feats are intended to get a rod.

[Nefreet]

Those tables are for randomly determining rods as treasure.

[0o0o0 O 0o0o0]

We have a price for a normal Merciful Rod, 5500gp. It is +0 spell level, so other +0 Rods should be that price too.

That's very cheap and we can do something useful at that price - a Rod of Brisk Metamagic.

Brisk adds 10' to a movement type you don't normally have, so it means your Overland Flight spell which you have on all day anyway moves at 50', not 40'. That's a significant boost, and very reliable.

a minor Brisk Rod is only 1500gp. Maybe it's worth it for Monkey Fish (it doubles the effect) or Fly (up to 70')? It works on Alter Self swim speed too.

I wouldn't want to burn a feat on it, but I'll have a Rod. It triples the speed of Earth Glide to 15!

Doesn't work on Longstrider, sadly.

[TarrasqueEsque]

There is no entry for +0 metamagic rods that I can find. So, as for as I can tell the only ones not legal are fleeting and Eclipsed. Unless some one else has a citation I missed.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

A lot of these do exist, they just aren't online for some reason. All of the Occult Adventures feats had corresponding rods published in the book but not on the PRD or pfsrd.

[Gisher]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

A lot of these do exist, they just aren't online for some reason. All of the Occult Adventures feats had corresponding rods published in the book but not on the PRD or pfsrd.

They are on the PRD. (Just scroll down.)

[Plausible Pseudonym]

Cool. Google can't find them, though.

[ryric]

Gallant Armor wrote:

ryric wrote:

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

It exists

d20pfsrd is not an official site, and in this case I'm pretty sure the listing is an error. Such a rod is explicitly not in the PRD despite the corresponding feat being in the CRB.

[Rysky]

ryric wrote:

Gallant Armor wrote:

ryric wrote:

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

It exists

d20pfsrd is not an official site, and in this case I'm pretty sure the listing is an error. Such a rod is explicitly not in the PRD despite the corresponding feat being in the CRB.

Yeah, just checked through my copy of UE. Not in there.

D20 probably made it for completion's sake.

[0o0o0 O 0o0o0]

TarrasqueEsque wrote:

There is no entry for +0 metamagic rods that I can find. So, as for as I can tell the only ones not legal are fleeting and Eclipsed. Unless some one else has a citation I missed.

My post above yours cites a +0 metamagic rod.

Other +0 rods should follow that price.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedPlayersGuide/magicItems/rods.htm l

In the books the table is page 295 of the APG.

[TarrasqueEsque]

Yes but my point is there is there is no official listing for these as a class of rod. In Ultimate Magic there are table listings for the things stated by Nefreet. There is no listing for generic +0 rods, thus they can't be officially made. You can infer the prices as 1 500, 5 500, and 12 250 but that is not official and that is all I wanted to make clear. So, yes you can have merciful but every other +0 feat applied to a rod is a house rule. Sorry for not being clearer.

[0o0o0 O 0o0o0]

At the time of APG's publishing (2010) Merciful was the only +0 Metamagic feat, there was no need to have a generic +0 rod, it would have been irrelevant, a waste of page space. Tenebrous was next (Inner Sea Magic, 2011).

It may be a house rule but it's a case when putting in the rule originally made no sense. Now it does make sense, precendent takes over.

Core Rulebook gives generic prices for +1, 2, 3. It doesn't for Merciful because Merciful was first published in APG.

[TarrasqueEsque]

I get that and you are right but a lot of people here are involved in organised play and have to consider these things. Just try to help keep things transparent for those folks.

[0o0o0 O 0o0o0]

Ah, I don't play PFS. I gather everything has to be explicitly spelled out.

In that case, yup, you are right. Despite logic, and not because of lack of intent by the designers, one can't do it. Bad luck, PFS players.

I've just flicked through Magic Tactics Toolbox. The book has both Brisk Spell and about half a dozen new Rods but they never combine the two. Doh.

Well, I'll be using +0 rods anyway.

[ryric]

Rysky wrote:

ryric wrote:

Gallant Armor wrote:

ryric wrote:

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

It exists

d20pfsrd is not an official site, and in this case I'm pretty sure the listing is an error. Such a rod is explicitly not in the PRD despite the corresponding feat being in the CRB.

Yeah, just checked through my copy of UE. Not in there.

D20 probably made it for completion's sake.

That seems a likely explanation, although as I've pointed out it would be rather useless.

[James Risner]

ryric wrote:

Rysky wrote:

D20PFSRD probably made it for completion's sake.

That seems a likely explanation, although as I've pointed out it would be rather useless.

Which is something I really wish they wouldn't do, I'm starting to have more than I can count on two hands of editorial revision by the site. It really gets frustrating to keep having to explain to players they need to look it up elsewhere before they use it.

[Gisher]

Rysky wrote:

ryric wrote:

Gallant Armor wrote:

ryric wrote:

You missed Still Spell. It would be kind of silly to have a rod that requires you to wave it in one hand while casting to overcome having to have a hand free.

It exists

d20pfsrd is not an official site, and in this case I'm pretty sure the listing is an error. Such a rod is explicitly not in the PRD despite the corresponding feat being in the CRB.

Yeah, just checked through my copy of UE. Not in there.

D20 probably made it for completion's sake.

Making their own 3rd party stuff is fine. Citing UE as the source is just dishonest.

[Baval]

have to disagree with "making their own 3rd party stuff is fine"

I use that site a lot and dont want it turning into the DnD wiki, where 3/4 of it is unlabeled imbalanced homebrew

[Gisher]

Baval wrote:

have to disagree with "making their own 3rd party stuff is fine"

I use that site a lot and dont want it turning into the DnD wiki, where 3/4 of it is unlabeled imbalanced homebrew

Perhaps my phrasing was too informal. I did not mean to suggest that every single person in the world would be pleased with them creating their own material and posting it on their site. I apologize if that was unclear.

My point was that there is nothing unethical about someone creating their own material. Creating their own material and claiming it to be Paizo material is unethical.

[James Risner]

Worst part is I've talked to the owner, he seems to want to make the site a great resource but he doesn't fix any of the reported mistakes.

I've reported things like the Fox Shape having a Special: line added that doesn't exist and many archetypes listed on his charts as stacking that don't stack because they modify the same class feature but lack the "This replaces/alters" language (that isn't required.)

[JoelF847]

I'm planning on revising the prices for rods based on metamagic feats which themselves have additional requirements, since the rod not only grants you to the affect of the feat, but also lets you bypass the other requirements.

Using encouraging spell, which also requires Cha 13 and 6 ranks of diplomacy, as an example, I'm bumping the price up 1500 for all 3 strengths, which is a bit less than half the price of an item which actually grants +6 to a skill. There are a few other metamagic feats with additional requirements I'll likely do something similar if they come up, such as selective spell which requires 10 ranks in spellcraft.

[Azothath]

JoelF847 wrote:

I'm planning on revising the prices for rods based on metamagic feats which themselves have additional requirements...

probably some good ADVICE/Home Brew but creatures can have Feats that they can't use because they don't meet the requirements. A good example is someone with a circlet to meet an INT requirement. When they lose the enhancement bonus they lose access to the Feat not the fact that they took the Feat. A Rod of Intensified metamagic makes a very expensive light mace(see description, GM approval may be needed) in a non-caster's hands.

Generally this thread only applies to PFS where PC's could only buy RAW items or RAW ones with numerical increases.

[SheepishEidolon]

Alternatively, you could make such rods unavailable for a few levels.