Feral Combat Training and Unchained Monk Flurry


Rules Questions


How exactly does Feral Combat Training work with the Unchained Monk's Flurry of Blows?

Feral Combat Training wrote:

Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.

If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Unchained Monk Flurry of Blows wrote:

At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what's already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).

At 11th level, a monk can make an additional attack at his highest base attack bonus whenever he makes a flurry of blows. This stacks with the first attack from this ability and additional attacks from haste and similar effects.

Let's create a hypothetical barebones level 6 monk. No items, we'll assume he's got two claw attacks, and weapon focus (claws) since it's a prereq for FCT. I can see this working one of two ways.

First, on a non-flurry full attack this monk would make two claw attacks at +7/+7. Therefor, since Unchained Monk's flurry says it just grants an additional attack at his highest attack bonus, when he flurries he makes three claw attacks at +7/+7/+7. I'm not sure how (or if) attacks with other weapons could be traded in with these, as flurry of blows suggests is possible, and I'm also not sure how style strikes would work with this reading. This reading means that the monk would never get more than three attacks from just a flurry plus his natural attacks, from level 1 to 10, and four attacks from level 11 to 20 (though obviously other effects and abilities that grant additional attacks would still function as normal) all at his full attack bonus.

Second, on a non-flurry full attack this monk would make two claw attacks at +7/+7. However, when flurrying he makes attacks at his normal iteratives. Thus, with his bonus attack he'd make three attacks at +7/+7/+2 (assuming they were all claw attacks). This reading suggests that a flurry is the same as a normal full attack action from levels 1 through 5. At level 6 the monk makes three attacks because his BAB allows him an additional iterative attack, and he gains additional iteratives at the appropriate levels (which equates to six attacks at level 20, albeit with iterative penalties). This reading also suggests that any claw attack could be traded out for a different attack that could be used during a flurry of blows with no trouble.

The way I read it the first interpretation seems RAW how it should work, but I just don't see how you could use style strikes with it since every style strike requires an unarmed strike to function.

Thoughts?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

6th UMonk gets to choose between:
Making non-Flurry claw attack only
Making non-flurry Unarmed attacks only
Making non-flurry Unarmed and secondary claw attacks
Making Flurry Unarmed attacks only
Making Flurry Unarmed attacks using one claw as the weapon (FCT) for some or all the Unarmed attacks


yeah, it works. I have an ex-UMonk/white-haired witch/evangelist of Calistria with FCT and Boar Style so she can drill holes in bad guys with her hair.


James Risner wrote:

6th UMonk gets to choose between:

Making non-Flurry claw attack only
Making non-flurry Unarmed attacks only
Making non-flurry Unarmed and secondary claw attacks
Making Flurry Unarmed attacks only
Making Flurry Unarmed attacks using one claw as the weapon (FCT) for some or all the Unarmed attacks

Excellent breakdown. Thanks!

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Your welcome!

So many choices!


I was looking at unchained monk and the developers appear to have taken out the line that says you can't flurry and do secondary natural attacks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

they changed the wording, " but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what's already granted by the flurry for doing so"
Mean that you can't gain extra attacks beyond what flurry is giving you if you have multiple weapons, including natural weapons.

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