A summoner and an eidolon both have ranks in Perception. Then what?

[ohako]

One of the common things you do in Pathfinder is the old standby 'roll Perception to see if you're surprised'. Now, an eidolon has this little gem of a power

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:

Link (Ex): A summoner and his eidolon share a mental link that allows for communication across any distance (as long as they are on the same plane). This communication is a free action, allowing the summoner to give orders to his eidolon at any time.

If one of the pair makes the check, is the other one surprised? Is a summoner making a Perception check 'take two and keep highest', or not?

[Bill Dunn]

Communication may be a free action, but free actions are generally considered to be available to a character as it takes its turn. I'd treat them differently for perception rolls to avoid surprises. For other cases, like actively searching an area, I'd have one rolling to aid the other.
I don't think treating the summoner as if his perception checks are "take two and keep higher" would be appropriate.

[dragonhunterq]

I agree with Bill. You would need something a little more specific, like hive mind, to get near the effect you are thinking of.

[Franz Lunzer]

It's the same as the rogue (Init: 22, Perception: 27) screaming "Ambush!" (free action), and the fighter (Init: 7, Perception 14) going "huh?" (being surprised still).

[Lorewalker]

I'm always surprised that no one has seemed to read the "speak" portion of the CRB.

"Speak

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action."

But yes, it is generally accepted that you can not speak to bring someone into the surprise round. There is a feat for that, though.
Lookout

[Lorewalker]

Also, the PC has a pet which can communicate its findings. If it has a perception it should be allowed to use its perception. There is nothing that limits the eidolon from functioning independently from the Summoner in how it uses its skills. Just remember that it is independent and thus what it learns is not automatically or immediately transferred to the Summoner.

[ohako]

Lorewalker, nice find. A summoner could take the Lookout feat, imbue it into a ring of tactical precision, and then hand it to an eidolon with the Bodyguard feat for an extra +1 AC.

That's not too shabby. Move and stab from a melee eidolon during the surprise round (or a 'pounce' if the surprise is in melee) might well be worth 11,000gp.

[dragonhunterq]

Lorewalker, not "not read" so much as considered irrelevant. Talking doesn't get you moving. it has no mechanical effect at all on initiative or ability to act in a surprise round.

[hasteroth]

Lorewalker wrote:

Also, the PC has a pet which can communicate its findings. If it has a perception it should be allowed to use its perception. There is nothing that limits the eidolon from functioning independently from the Summoner in how it uses its skills. Just remember that it is independent and thus what it learns is not automatically or immediately transferred to the Summoner.

I always get irritated when a GM decides things like Animal Companions going on PC initiative without asking the player for their input (particularly at PFS sessions). They also often get denied their scent abilities, tricks like Detect, and their own Perception checks. An animal companion is an INDEPENDENT BEING (and so are eidolons) and they should be allowed to function as such. Obviously a Companion can't always free the PC from being surprised and in many cases will need to be commanded before it can act.. but if I commanded my AC to Defend (or my AC has above animal intelligence), and it rolls higher initiative or is acting in a surprise round (thank you scent) then it should be able to do exactly that. Or hey maybe I want to take my turn but let the AC delay for some reason or another.

I get really really annoyed by "it muddies it up if too much is in initiative" or similar justifications. Major class features should NEVER deliberately be nerfed (or fudged) for "streamlining" purposes, even worse is when they decide that giving the Animal Companion its own Perception check is "overpowered" (its not like the PC gets to take the higher roll, especially not to avoid surprise). Animal Companions and Eidolons constantly face this kind of crap... but I mean how would the Wizard feel if he was told he couldn't use Summon Monster to summon a bunch of whatever just because it clutters the board too much? How would the Rogue feel if he was told to stop searching for stuff in every room or checking for traps because it "slows the pace down"?

I realize it might not sound like a problem to most GMs, but the issue is most of them probably haven't given it any thought at all. It's not an issue if the GM lets the player roll the initiative separately if the player wants to, but it should NEVER be forced... and it too often is, and forced even more often is denying the AC or Eidolon any perception check (and scent).

[hasteroth]

dragonhunterq wrote:

Lorewalker, not "not read" so much as considered irrelevant. Talking doesn't get you moving. it has no mechanical effect at all on initiative or ability to act in a surprise round.

For surprise round, of course its irrelevant (except with Lookout). For a lot of other things it isn't, such as responding to a request for permission to grab your dagger off your belt (this actually came up in my session today). But most common is communicating Knowledge about an enemy, it might not be my turn but if I rolled knowledge on my turn and learned something about a creature, I should be about to shout that knowledge to our Fighter who wasn't in the room when I initially shared the info (especially since its explicitly allowed in the rules).

[dragonhunterq]

hasteroth wrote:

dragonhunterq wrote:

Lorewalker, not "not read" so much as considered irrelevant. Talking doesn't get you moving. it has no mechanical effect at all on initiative or ability to act in a surprise round.

For surprise round, of course its irrelevant (except with Lookout). For a lot of other things it isn't, such as responding to a request for permission to grab your dagger off your belt (this actually came up in my session today). But most common is communicating Knowledge about an enemy, it might not be my turn but if I rolled knowledge on my turn and learned something about a creature, I should be about to shout that knowledge to our Fighter who wasn't in the room when I initially shared the info (especially since its explicitly allowed in the rules).

Irrelevant to the question asked in the OP.

There are always exceptions, you can safely assume that "except for the exceptions" is appended to every post.

[Lorewalker]

dragonhunterq wrote:

hasteroth wrote:

dragonhunterq wrote:

Lorewalker, not "not read" so much as considered irrelevant. Talking doesn't get you moving. it has no mechanical effect at all on initiative or ability to act in a surprise round.

For surprise round, of course its irrelevant (except with Lookout). For a lot of other things it isn't, such as responding to a request for permission to grab your dagger off your belt (this actually came up in my session today). But most common is communicating Knowledge about an enemy, it might not be my turn but if I rolled knowledge on my turn and learned something about a creature, I should be about to shout that knowledge to our Fighter who wasn't in the room when I initially shared the info (especially since its explicitly allowed in the rules).

Irrelevant to the question asked in the OP.

There are always exceptions, you can safely assume that "except for the exceptions" is appended to every post.

But not irrelevant in correcting the misinformation that was provided as an answer to the post. See the first response.

I very much answered the post as well in the my full post. I said that it will not help with a surprise round, but that you can speak off of your turn.
Honestly, you're the one posting irrelevant things at this point.
So please either get on topic or at least stop pretending to be useful.