Bladebound Kensai Magus and griffon


Advice


Hello everyone !
After reading a lot about it, with thehelp of several good guides, I made myself a bladebound kensai magus, sacrificing a little magic to fight more effectively. The game starts at lvl 5, and the base stats are really high.
Here are his stats :
Race : elf
Class : Magus 5 (bladebound, kensai)

Stats :
Str 12
Dex 22 (17+elf+lvl 4+belt)
Con 14 (16-elf)
Int 22 (18+elf+headband)
Wis 16
Cha 10

Traits :
Magical lineage (shocking grasp)
Desperate focus

Feats :
1 weapon finesse
1 weapon focus, bonus kensai
3 Slashing grace
5 intensify spell (shocking grasp)
5 craft wondrous items

Stuff :
2 pearls of power 1
Belt of dex
Headband of int
Cloak of resistance 2
Amulet of natural armor
Wands of mage's armor, shield, vanish
Black blade
Every wondrous items here are crafted are half price

First of all, I would like your opinion on this build. Do you think it's good ? Should I change something ? Mostly I'm think about intensify spell, i don't know if it's really useful to take it at 5th level, I thought perhaps I should wait till 7th, but then I don't really know what to take instead. Your advice on this would be great !

Second, the last word of the title : griffon.
As part of the campaign, my gm hinted there would be a very good chance that I get a griffon. Don't know when or how, I think it won't be before lvl 7-8, but still. So, my question would be : what do I do with it ? Should I invest in ride, and use it as a mount ? Can a mount be good for a magus ? Or should I use it more as an ally, who could help me by doing maneuvers like overrun, flanking ennemies, etc ? Either way, would leadership be a good investment so he can level up too, and how exactly does that work ?(never used leadership, and didn't really understand how it works with the description.) Would the handle animal be useful too ?

Thank you for your advices !

Silver Crusade

i think youd be better off with a ring of protection instead of amulet of natural armor deflection ac is better
also if you took the magical knack trait you could dip into fighter and take the dragoon archetype which would get you Mounted combat and skill focus ride if you knew you where going to be riding it

Also i think you may be better off not taking the item creation feat


I took the natural armor because as a kensai, I add my int to my dodge bonus, so my touch ac is already great, so I figured boosting a little my flat footed ac would be good. But after all they are pretty much the same now (19 flat footed, 21 touch), so if you think boosting the touch is better, why not ;)
I'm not really fond of taking a dip in fighter, mounted combat ks not bad but it's once per round and I think a griffon is a pretty tough beast to begin sith, and skill focus is quite useless, since it's a class skill and uses dex, if I max it I'm already at 14 at lvl 5, which seems pretty good.
Why do you think the item creation feat is bad ? As a kensai I have no armor, and as a blackblade I don't have to pay for my weapons, so 90% of my money will be going into wondrous items. Being able to divide the price by 2 forever, for a feat, seems pretty good to me :)


Oh and I have a very stupid flavor question : does a black blade has to be black ? I mean, I know it's in the name, but nowhere in the description does it say it's black. That's not something really important but that kinda bothers me :p


Ok I wil try to wander all of your questions the way I see it.

I think your build is good except I agree that intensify spell should not be your level 5 feat. At level 5 it does you no good and at level 6 would add only 1d6 to the damage. I would wait to pick it up in your 7 level slot. In place of that feat I would suggest the lunge or toughness feat. The benefit of lunge is for a cost of -2 to AC you can in most situations spell combat without casting defensively which is huge. Toughness is also strong as a d8 class in melee HP never hurts.

If you plan on using your gryphon having it as a mount could be a good idea. You could have it be your movement to gain full attacks/spell combats on people. Leadership could be interesting however if you plan on taking the leadership feat there are honestly far better mounts out there than the griffon but the way I would play it is as the leadership score goes up the griffon would either gain templates or class levels.

Habibo is correct in that you should instead get a ring of protection. A ring of protection offers a deflection bonus which applies to all three armor types, whereas a natural armor bonus only applies to AC and Flatfooted. The deflection bonus is clearly superior for the same price.

I see nothing wrong with the item creation feat and in a long campaign it will pay for itself many times over.

A black blade does not have to be black, in one campaign I have a keens black blade magus that has re skinned his blade as a lightsaber. Go nuts with it, the blade is a flavor dream for the blade bound magus and you should build it however you want.

I hope this helps wander your questions. :)


That's the third time you answer my questions, and in two different threads, I will soon start to think you are stalking me :p
Lunge seems pretty awesome, as concentration checks seem to be pretty hard at low level, and a -2 to ac is no big deal, I have lots of them, so guess i'll do this and take intensify at 7. The reason I wanted to take it at 5 was to have my 7 slot free to take leadership, but then I realized I wouldn't have the lvl to take it as a cohort then, so it wouldn't be very useful.

About the griffon mount, I thought you couldn't full attack if the mount moves in the round, but maybe I misunderstood something there.

I thought deflection was only for touch, if it's not you're right it's far better ;)

Good to know for the black blade !

There's only two questions you haven't answered : would I need handle animal (I'm not sure how it works with an intelligent creature), and how does the scaling work for a monster cohort ? When does the griffon start to gain levels ?

Thanks a lot for your feedback and your advices, you're great ;)


Yorkblack wrote:
I thought deflection was only for touch, if it's not you're right it's far better ;)

Just to clarify:

Dodge AC protects against touch attacks, but it doesn't work when you're flat-footed.

Normal-Armour/Natural-Armour/Shield AC don't protect against touch attacks but they work while you're flat-footed.

Deflection AC protects against touch attacks AND it works while you're flat-footed.

Deflection is the best kind of AC.

HERE and HERE are some links on different Armour bonuses.

EDIT: The second link doesn't seem to work quite properly, not sure why, so here's the quote:

Quote:
A deflection bonus affects armor class and is granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other deflection bonuses. A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.


Thanks for the clarification ! Guess I should read a little more about the base rules sometimes :p


Yorkblack wrote:

Hello everyone !

After reading a lot about it, with thehelp of several good guides, I made myself a bladebound kensai magus, sacrificing a little magic to fight more effectively. The game starts at lvl 5, and the base stats are really high.
Here are his stats :
Race : elf
Class : Magus 5 (bladebound, kensai)

Stats :
Str 12
Dex 22 (17+elf+lvl 4+belt)
Con 14 (16-elf)
Int 22 (18+elf+headband)
Wis 16
Cha 10

Traits :
Magical lineage (shocking grasp)
Desperate focus

Feats :
1 weapon finesse
1 weapon focus, bonus kensai
3 Slashing grace
5 intensify spell (shocking grasp)
5 craft wondrous items

Stuff :
2 pearls of power 1
Belt of dex
Headband of int
Cloak of resistance 2
Amulet of natural armor
Wands of mage's armor, shield, vanish
Black blade
Every wondrous items here are crafted are half price

First of all, I would like your opinion on this build. Do you think it's good ? Should I change something ? Mostly I'm think about intensify spell, i don't know if it's really useful to take it at 5th level, I thought perhaps I should wait till 7th, but then I don't really know what to take instead. Your advice on this would be great !

Second, the last word of the title : griffon.
As part of the campaign, my gm hinted there would be a very good chance that I get a griffon. Don't know when or how, I think it won't be before lvl 7-8, but still. So, my question would be : what do I do with it ? Should I invest in ride, and use it as a mount ? Can a mount be good for a magus ? Or should I use it more as an ally, who could help me by doing maneuvers like overrun, flanking ennemies, etc ? Either way, would leadership be a good investment so he can level up too, and how exactly does that work ?(never used leadership, and didn't really understand how it works with the description.) Would the handle animal be useful too ?

Thank you for your advices !

Slashing grace can't work with spell combat, unlike dervish dance


Forgot to mention, but it has been cleared with gm, so it works :)


York you are correct, you can't make full attacks however you can spell combat as a full round action so still extremely useful there.

Griffon has an effective cohort level of 8, so you would need a leadership score of 12 and be level ten. At level 11 and a leadership score of 13 it would go up a theoretical level allowing you to increase it as a character level or template if allowed by your gm.

Handle animal while not needed could be useful to teach some of the more obscure but useful tricks.


My mistake, I thought I couldn't do full round actions at all mounted. So you're right, this is very useful, I can spell combat and move, and the griffon can attack too, all in the same round. I wonder if the blade dash spell would work too...
I think I get it for the cohort rules. I can have it as a cohort when I reach 12 of leadership, and then it levels up like a PC. And so, because I always have tons of questions :
do I specifically need to be 10 or is it just that I'll have probably have 12 of leadership at 10th level ?
If so, I saw two woundrpus items, pretty cheap, that boost my leadership score by 3 points. Can I have my griffon as a cohort sooner by wearing them ?
Do they stack ?
Since they give +3 each, if they stack, does that mean that at lvl 9, with a 17 leadership point, my griffon can have 5fighter levels ?
Can I change something about the stats, feats, etc pf the griffon when I get it as a cohort, ot do I keep him like written in the bestiary ?
Since he will be at a lower lvl than the rest of the party, does he xp faster ?
Does a template cr+1 is equivalent to one level of fighter ? And by the way, which templates would you advise ?

I'm sorry if answering my questions only bring up twice more every time, but thanks a lot !


Cohorts from Leadership can never be higher level than your level - 2, so since the griffon is 'effectively' level 8 just from being a griffon, you have to be level 10 to have one as a cohort no matter what your leadership score. (I think this answers several of your questions) Generally, cohorts will stay at your level - 2 unless something strange happens (the way cohorts gain experience makes sure this happens, as I recall--they don't do it like PC's).

Whether or not you can decide on your griffon's feats, skills, and so forth is completely up to your GM. In fact, a lot about cohorts is up to the GM, and it sounds like your GM may have some specific ideas regarding this griffon, so don't be surprised if things work out differently than you expect.


Okay, guess I'll have to see with him when this happens then, thanks :)


Exactly what Almonihah said, a lot of this will be working the specifics out with your GM. Leadership is one of the loosest feats in the book that doesn't explain much. The reason I suggested templates is I feel they work better with monsters than adding pc level however that is very subject to GM approval. He is right, they gain exp like a normal pc but remain at one below the level up requirement until you gain another level as they always have to remain 2 below you.
If you have any other questions I am always free to help.


I think that covered pretty much everything I had in mind. Just not sure what would be best about the skills :
- Fly skill : even if I get a griffon, I will still have to fly by myself sometimes. How much do I need in fly ? Is having a total score of 15, enough to be sure not to fail a hover check, enough, or do I need more ?
- I took fey thoughts as a racial trait, being an elf, and I can make class skills two skills in a pretty big list. Obviously the first I chose was perception, but not sure about the second. I was thinking about stealth, acrobatics, and escape artist. What do you think would be best ?
- languages : I start with common and elven, and have an int of 22. Do the bonus granted by the headband counts towards languages ? Meaning : do I get 5 or 6 languages ? And which ones do you think would be best ? Gm advised me to take dwarvish, but couldn't think of anything else.
- Knowledges : as a magus, I get arcana, dungeons, and planes. We usually don't do a lot of dungeons, most of the campaign is in open space, and we haven't fought a lot of undead since the beggining, so I think dungeons might be less useful, not sure about the other ones though.

After that, I think that will be all :)


Yorkblack wrote:
- Fly skill : even if I get a griffon, I will still have to fly by myself sometimes. How much do I need in fly ? Is having a total score of 15, enough to be sure not to fail a hover check, enough, or do I need more ?

The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good.

Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.

FLY SKILL wrote:

Modifiers

Familiars A spellcaster with a bat familiar gains a +3 bonus on Fly checks.
...
Clumsy –8
Poor –4
Average +0
Good +4
Perfect +8

So the main way you'll be flying without your Griffon would be the Fly spell. It gives you a Good manoeuvrability (+4 to fly checks) and a bonus equal to half your caster level. Since it's a 3rd level spell, you'll be at least 7th level before you can cast it, meaning that bonus is at least a +3 (goes up every even level). It's also a class skill, so a single skill point gives you another +4. Then your Dex is 22 so you should have another +6. So far we have 4 + 3 + 4 + 6 = +17 to fly checks with only a single skill point invested.

Having said that, you sometimes want to do some pretty serious stuff with flight, and there are plenty of negative modifiers the GM can impose. I personally think Fly is the perfect skill to have on your HEADBAND OF VAST INTELLIGENCE. It's a skill you likely won't need before you get the headband, and it's one that you won't regret having maxed at later levels. Investing that 1 point means that even if you do somehow lose your headband you shouldn't go plummeting to the ground.

Quote:
- languages : I start with common and elven, and have an int of 22. Do the bonus granted by the headband counts towards languages ? Meaning : do I get 5 or 6 languages ? And which ones do you think would be best ? Gm advised me to take dwarvish, but couldn't think of anything else.

You should get a new language every time you get another +1 to your Int modifier. Essentially there shouldn't be a difference between someone who started with 22 Int and someone who started with 18 and level'd it up. With a 22 Int you should have your starting languages +6 (+ any for ranks in Linguistics). As to which languages it's often a good idea to try to have lots of different languages covered by party, so any that no one else has are a good idea. It can also be a good idea to have a couple of obscure languages that the whole party can speak so that you can talk tactics in the middle of a battle without the enemy understanding you. Really though, it's totally up to you.

Quote:
- Knowledges : as a magus, I get arcana, dungeons, and planes. We usually don't do a lot of dungeons, most of the campaign is in open space, and we haven't fought a lot of undead since the beggining, so I think dungeons might be less useful, not sure about the other ones though.

Undead are identified by Knowledge: Religion, not Dungeoneering. HERE is a link to the Knowledge skill page so you can have a look. As long as someone has ranks in each Knowledge skill you should get by - it doesn't have to be you. If no one else has it, pick that one. Aside from that it's mostly aesthetic.


Thanks a lot ! That still leaves one question though :p

Yorkblack wrote:


- I took fey thoughts as a racial trait, being an elf, and I can make class skills two skills in a pretty big list. Obviously the first I chose was perception, but not sure about the second. I was thinking about stealth, acrobatics, and escape artist. What do you think would be best ?


I agree with others above that I would ask you GM for more info about the Griffen and what you should do to prep for it.
You might also ask the GM what other options they see for your PC or what changes they might recommend you make.

MDC


Yorkblack I would go for stealth all the way, it is an extremely useful skill and with a high perception and stealth you could make a good scout.


Think someone suggested Lunge at 5, but it has a pre-req of BAB 6, so I would suggest Combat Casting: even with the bonuses Magus get, you don't want to fail those Concentration checks, and by the nature of the class you will be in harms way when you are casting to get the most from Spell Combat.
Depending on how high you expect the campaign to go I would also potentially swap your Magical Lineage to Force Punch rather than Shocking Grasp. Even with Intensify, Shocking Grasp doesn't go past level 10. On the other hand with ML on Force Punch you can be adding Toppling Spell without increasing the level from level 7 when you get access, or Intensify from 11 when it's damage is capped at level 10. While Force Punch has the disadvantage of being D4, as Force Damage its can't be reduced by Elemental Resistance. It also has the nice control element of the push back, and with Toppling spell, the Trip potential can also be invaluable.


That may be good at a higher level, but force punch is a lvl 3 spell, so I don't have access to it and won't for 2 lvls. And since a trait is supposed to be taken at the character creation, I don't think it could be put on a spell you don't have access to at creation, though I'm not sure about that. Still, thank you for your advice, but I don't think that would be great for me... and furthermore (love that word), we don't play often so I won't get to level 7 before a while, and not speaking about lvl ten. We might get there someday but it won't happen soon.


Yorkblack wrote:


There's only two questions you haven't answered : would I need handle animal (I'm not sure how it works with an intelligent creature), and how does the scaling work for a monster cohort ? When does the griffon start to gain levels ?

If you want scaling for the griffon, you need the Leadership/Monstrous Companion feat. Addition of class levels to a mount are laid out there.


Yup this was answered before, but thank you all the same :)


I prefer Gloves of Elvenkind to Combat Casting.

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