PbP Community MTS II - Blood under Absalom GM Discussion Thread [spoilers]


GM Discussion

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4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Magabeus wrote:
I am also attached to GM Hmm, until today ;-)

GM Hmm figures out how to detach the velcro straps, and sets Magabeus free!

Thank you so much, GM G! You were so awesome and so appreciated!

Hmm

Liberty's Edge 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ditto on that! Thank you so much GM G! Appreciate the Back up GM supports.

I've returned back to civilization, so will be picking up my game in the next update.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Backup GM's - sitrep

The following are now the current support GM's for the event.

If you need to AFK or step away for a period, please let them know asap.

Andrew Torgerud

GM Erich

***

Magabeus
Attached to GMBatPony until ~25 Feb, then away.

Granta
Attached to IHiYC table ufn

Evil Minion
Attached to Ilmakis table ufn

4/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have been released by both GM Hmmm and GM Batpony! Freedom!

Alas for the special: I will be on holiday starting Feb 25th, with the next two days frantically trying to get work completed and things packed.

Therefore I am not available for backup duty until March the 6th (if the special runs that long, I am not exactly up to speed on the complete schedule).

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Time check

This section will complete Sunday morning my time. On Monday morning I will open Act 6, the Mausoleum. That Act is really the last run, and should go for about 9-11 days all up as a guess.

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Friday morning here, so ~48 hours left in the remaining activity.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Do you want to know if we finished and are in holding pattern?

Liberty's Edge 3/5

With the combination of poor rolls all around, my table will likely go to the coin toss, only one character rendered unconscious at this time. Although that character is the Ronin, so who knows.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Woah, I was having the same problem with my table and was getting worried. With all the bad rolls (GM included), only one had gone unconscious as of yesterday. Then suddenly for today's round, I had two confirmed crits and one threatened crit, leaving just the Aspis Monkey King (sorcerer) with more than half its hp worth of nonlethal damage!

In fact, the crit on the Clown did so much nonlethal damage, the excess which became lethal was enough to make him start dying!

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

My party just finished the Aspies. I've left them on the stage with the curtain still up, and an expectant crowd. I feel like making them squirm a bit.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Hah, they can do some improvisation; stand up comedy or some speeches or something :P

Have they even thrown shade on Aspis?


So, one player at my table just killed an opponent. But I am not entirely sure that it should be held against them, so I am asking for some opinions before I resolve it (because some of this is because of a vague rule, and some from the PbP format).

The half-orc took 20 total NL damage, which would render it unconscious - except for the fact that it has orc ferocity. This is where I cannot find a clear ruling on whether he technically is unconscious, or if he is up for 1 more round as staggered. Also, technically, because of the way nonlethal damage works, technically he took 16 NL (his max hp), and therefore 4 lethal (which I think means that orc ferocity kicks in anyway). I didn't list it as such... so my play smacks him again (even though he was going to drop on his next action), doing 9 pts of damage - which again is technically lethal even though the intent is nonlethal.

That brings the total to 16 NL and 13 lethal, and the half-orc has 13 con, so dead, right?

So the question is, do I let it slide for no penalty, or do I explain to the player to make sure they want to do this, or do I say "gee that was overkill" and handle it as a death? I mean, it just gives them a penalty, so it isn't like they just lose or anything, but it feels a bit much to me - especially since I can't be sure it was clear that this was even a possibility to the player.

According to the scenario as written, wouldn't the first team to do 1 extra point of damage technically be causing lethal damage and then be disqualified? I don't really think this was the intent.

My current thinking is to just let it slide and finish out the combat, ruling it was accidental and not intentional death. (Had it not been a half-orc, this wouldn't even have come up...)

Thoughts?

4/5 5/5 ***

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GM Fuzzfoot wrote:
That brings the total to 16 NL and 13 lethal, and the half-orc has 13 con, so dead, right?

Nope. Dead would be at 16 hp + 13 Con = 29 lethal damage. It really takes a lot to kill someone using nonlethal damage. Your half-orc isn't even bleeding. He still has 3 hp.


Ah! Thank you! Yes, that makes a lot more sense to me.

4/5

Shifty wrote:
Have they even thrown shade on Aspis?

Heh, the group I was GM (filling in for Ilmakis) did a great job bad-mouthing the opponents =)

Lem (and his faithful broom steed, Horatio) were working the crowd well as the Chou clown.

I was just sorry his final Suggestion on the opposition Monkey King got nullified by her Protection from Good.

Though probably would have had to resolve that off-stage... not safe for younger viewers! =)

-----------

Oh ya... and my fill-in GM duties are completed... back in the pool.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Juet a general question, the table I took over for this scenario has not yet been transferred to my name, been a few weeks now, should I send a second e-mail to Paizo to check on this?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Yes, you should! It usually takes only a week to do the transfer. Good luck!

Hmm

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

I sent off to have a few threads closed some time ago too, they have been pretty quiet. In about 9-10 days the threads will be wrapping up I'd suggest...

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Good morning, update in a couple of hours.

Off to sport now and will get them all 'Curtained!' after that, so please resolve anything necessary :)

One table only just engaged the Aspis either hours ago, I am going to give them a bit of fudge time, 'strewth mate!'

1/5

If the PCs are clearly dominating the encounter, but don't have everyone unconscious or staggered, should we still declare it a victory for the PCs?

Liberty's Edge 3/5

N N 959 wrote:
If the PCs are clearly dominating the encounter, but don't have everyone unconscious or staggered, should we still declare it a victory for the PCs?

My folks are in the same situation, but by the book, it feels like regardless of who is winning if combat isn't over we go to chance, which is the coin toss.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Correct, it goes to the coin toss. If you feel that the case was special and there was some reason a coin toss would be a shocking travesty of justice let me know.

The Mythweaver one looked very exciting I have to say...!

***

We move forward again tomorrow - kicking off Act 6.

As I was a bit late on todays update, I will push back tomorrows update from the early am to mid afternoon my time to allow a proper 24 hours.

1/5

Shifty wrote:

Correct, it goes to the coin toss. If you feel that the case was special and there was some reason a coin toss would be a shocking travesty of justice let me know.

The Mythweaver one looked very exciting I have to say...!

They knocked out everyone except the Monkey King who is at 3 hp and flat on her back. However, I believe based on Kiang's dialogue, the scenario intends for the coin toss to be a travesty of justice. Besides, it's only a -2 on Init, so not like it's a TPK or anything.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Blood Under Absalom wrote:


Ringing the Gong: To properly sound the gong, a creature must first stand in an adjacent square. Then, as a full-round action, the creature must rub the gong with the mallet to warm it up and then softly strike it with a successful Perform (percussion) skill check

I've interpreted the above text that the skill check must be made in the next consecutive turn else the mallet cools down... What does everyone else think? Or how is everyone else interpreting this part if players choose to ring the gong.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

NN959 - Yeah I get the impression that the tournament referees are terrible people :p

GMBP - A skill check is a standard action, so I read as a full round, then a standard.

5/5 5/5 *

Between the end of the play and the arrival of the PC inside the room how many time have passed?
Less than 30mn, less than 45, less than one hour, two hours?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

They have had to get changed and then walk across a chunk of city - I'd say 45 mins would be reasonable.

1/5

Since the blade traps are 'triggered silent images' then Spellcraft should work on them, correct?

Spellcraft does not require one to see the caster, only the spell as it is being cast.

PRD - Spellcraft wrote:
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast..

Sovereign Court 4/5

"Trigger" relates to the activation of magic items, not the casting of spells. In this usage, Spellcraft is only relevant to the casting of spells.

Also, it is unclear what information is provided by identifying an illusion as it is cast. Does it negate the need for a Will save? Count as interaction and thus allow a save? Grant a bonus if the target otherwise interacts and gets a save?

Lastly, keep in mind that Knowledge (arcana) identifies a "spell effect", not a "spell". That skill also won't tell the PCs there is an illusion. They need to cast detect magic and then roll the skill checks.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Shifty wrote:

NN959 - Yeah I get the impression that the tournament referees are terrible people :p

GMBP - A skill check is a standard action, so I read as a full round, then a standard.

Hmm, I read that as just a full-round action only. RAW, it is undetermined what kind of action a perform check takes, so the scenario is explicitly stating that it takes a full round. My concern is that with only 4 days for this scene, which could translate to only 4 rounds of combat, taking 2 of those just to sound the gong is likely not going to leave sufficient time for the party.

Quote:

Action

Varies. Trying to earn money by playing in public requires anywhere from an evening’s work to a full day’s performance. The bard’s special Perform-based abilities are described in that class’s description.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

So.. The judge just rolled two consecutive crits in two turns against one character, first damage at 37, and second at 22. The guy had 40hp, the second attack kills him??? Without the crit he would be at -7 vs Con 14.

I'm inclined to think that the judge is not on a mission to kill...

Would like to hear people's feedback, this is the first time I've actually rolled enough for a PC death, I'm at tier 3-4, and this guy is a boon character as well...

1/5

GM Granta wrote:
"Trigger" relates to the activation of magic items, not the casting of spells. In this usage, Spellcraft is only relevant to the casting of spells.

Spell traps have triggers. Traps have triggers. There's a section on "Triggers" in the PRD. The scenario doesn't identify how or what is creating the silent image spells, but uses the word "trigger."

Per the Paizo FAQ on Spellcraft,

Quote:
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball.

Since Spellcraft works on the manifestations and "all" spells have manifestations, and this is a silent image spell per the book. I'm merely connecting the dots.

Quote:
Also, it is unclear what information is provided by identifying an illusion as it is cast. Does it negate the need for a Will save? Count as interaction and thus allow a save? Grant a bonus if the target otherwise interacts and gets a save?
PRD wrote:
A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw.

Succeeding on a Spellcraft that someone cast illusion is proof positive that the effects aren't real. The character knows that the spell was an illusion.

Quote:
Lastly, keep in mind that Knowledge (arcana) identifies a "spell effect", not a "spell". That skill also won't tell the PCs there is an illusion.

Interesting interpretation. Not one I agree with. I'm not sure what the "spell effect" would be with an illusion such that you succeed on the check but do not know it's an illusion.

In any event, my question is to the Overseer, not because I don't know how the rules work, but because I want to make sure we are all running it the same. So the "right" answer is not what I'm seeking, but the answer for how it will be managed in this scenario.

Thanks for posting, in any event.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

@Batpony: He didn't back off after the first round's damage? I would not expect Judge Heng pursue someone who retreats after suffering massive damage like that, but if they insisted on standing toe to toe... well crits happen. Does he have the prestige to pay for the Raise Dead spell? If so I may suggest that since so many Pathfinders are moving through the area, you could possibly justify the prestige cost to represent one of the other tables or perhaps the Ronin (if befriended) offering to retrieve the scroll. They'd have to push on with the negative levels, and probably take a time hit as to when they enter the next encounter, but it would keep them in the game. Otherwise, unfortunately actions have consequences, and going toe to toe with someone after sustaining nearly lethal damage has fatal consequences.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

No he did not back off! He expected his high AC (27) to protect him, crit rolled 34, and confirm was 31. He is taking it like a champ and accepted the risk/consequence that he didn't back off or take it to heal himself. Fortunately he does have heroic defiance which by luck puts him in stable condition, and not perma-death.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

Well then in that case... into the closet, er... alcove with him!

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

This is BuA, deaths happen.

Lantern Lodge 4/5 5/5

How does a 3-4 character qualify for Heroic Defiance? I thought you needed a base +8 for fort. And it only delays conditions, it doesn't affect hp or death. (okay, so dead may be a condition, but I don't think that is the point of the feat).

4/5

GM Batpony wrote:

So.. The judge just rolled two consecutive crits in two turns against one character, first damage at 37, and second at 22. The guy had 40hp, the second attack kills him??? Without the crit he would be at -7 vs Con 14.

I'm inclined to think that the judge is not on a mission to kill...

Would like to hear people's feedback, this is the first time I've actually rolled enough for a PC death, I'm at tier 3-4, and this guy is a boon character as well...

You can't be afraid to kill a character. Bad dice happen. PC deaths happen.

@Aerondor - Hero's Defiance the spell, not Heroic Defiance.

4/5

GM Aerondor wrote:

How does a 3-4 character qualify for Heroic Defiance? I thought you needed a base +8 for fort. And it only delays conditions, it doesn't affect hp or death. (okay, so dead may be a condition, but I don't think that is the point of the feat).

They're using the wrong name.

Pretty sure they meant the spell Hero's Defiance.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

:)

Sovereign Court 2/5

Question. Was reading the greased chute trap and there's a disable device DC listed. Assuming that the rogue does attempt to disable this trap, what could conceivably remove it? Setting fire to the grease?

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A bard riding down on a shield while playing 'wipeout' on a mandolin would disable it by sheer display of awesomeness.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

EvilMinion wrote:


They're using the wrong name.
Pretty sure they meant the spell Hero's Defiance.

This is correct.

Sovereign Court 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sorry to keep peppering this forum with questions. I'm looking at M3 and trying to understand the purpose of this trap for tier 1-2. It blinds them with glitterdust but only for 3 rounds. And nothing stops them from resting for the 3 rounds for the blindness to clear before proceeding to M5? So what is the purpose of this trap?

p.s. In case you're wondering how my group cleared the grease trap, someone actually brought soap! So they're lowering the rogue down the tunnel who is methodically "disabling" the trap with soap and water!!!

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

My group is still dealing with Heng. The bard that attempted to run up and work the gong got punted into an alcove. The rogue is currently trying to hit the gong but I suspect Heng will find himself... compelled... to demonstrate for them soon enough.

WRT the blinding trap, I think its really just a concern if the party took the slip and slide of doom since that would deposit them right in front of the elemental encounter platform when they hit the wall. Otherwise I don't think anything precludes them from waiting it out.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense now.

Well, since my party is slightly ahead of time (due to a greatsword crit on Judge Heng), I'll drag this part out a bit to keep them in suspense. ;)

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Actually, it was your post, Kuey, that made me decide to stop dragging things out and start moving them along the tunnel. My group also got very lucky in dealing with Judge Heng.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

I wouldn't worry about dragging it out. I think the reward for dealing with Heng quickly is having more time (and more impact) on the final encounter.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Judgment will fall tomorrow.

I'll keep it to afternoon my time.

I will also get a googleform up so we can just notify of table successes against the elementals in one location and make it super easy.

Similarly, I'll start putting together the GM Boons (Dhampir)

Liberty's Edge 3/5

GM kuey wrote:

Sorry to keep peppering this forum with questions. I'm looking at M3 and trying to understand the purpose of this trap for tier 1-2. It blinds them with glitterdust but only for 3 rounds. And nothing stops them from resting for the 3 rounds for the blindness to clear before proceeding to M5? So what is the purpose of this trap?

Blood Under Absalom wrote:
PCs who failed their save against the greased chute trap in area M2 slam into the wall dividing this section of the room from area M5

I read this as to be the concave wall with the round pillar things between M3 and M5, (I know from the map it doesn't seem to make sense, BUT they text seems to be clear the wall divides the others from M5 per the text to me, maybe the slope curves at the very end?) so I was under the same impression as Kuey. That is, they could really just wait it out if they were patience enough, but I guess my thought was they might rush in not knowing what the consequence is of waiting. That's the option I gave them anyway..

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