Does giving a monster class levels increase the DC of it's special abilities?


Rules Questions


Without regard to any ability score increases, based just off of the hit die gained from adding a class level, does the monster's special ability DC go up?

For instance, an Aboleth's Slime ability is Constitution based, and the Aboleth has a 22 Con, and 8 hit dice, giving it the listed DC20 Fort save. If I give the Aboleth 2 levels of Sorcerer, bringing it's hit dice to 10, do those additional hit dice increase it's Slime DC to 21?

The point of contention in my mind here is the difference between Racial hit dice and hit dice from class levels. In 3.5 I think it was pretty solid that only racial hit dice increased a monster's ability DCs, but I can't find anything in Pathfinder that speaks directly to this. Does becoming a Sorcerer make the Aboleth's Slime more potent?


I can't think of an explicit statement on this, but taking a gander at the ghouls in the monster codex that have class levels, the DC of their paralysis is not raised by class levels. Not a rule statement, but a strong hint I would say.


Firelock wrote:

Without regard to any ability score increases, based just off of the hit die gained from adding a class level, does the monster's special ability DC go up?

For instance, an Aboleth's Slime ability is Constitution based, and the Aboleth has a 22 Con, and 8 hit dice, giving it the listed DC20 Fort save. If I give the Aboleth 2 levels of Sorcerer, bringing it's hit dice to 10, do those additional hit dice increase it's Slime DC to 21?

The point of contention in my mind here is the difference between Racial hit dice and hit dice from class levels. In 3.5 I think it was pretty solid that only racial hit dice increased a monster's ability DCs, but I can't find anything in Pathfinder that speaks directly to this. Does becoming a Sorcerer make the Aboleth's Slime more potent?

*edit* yes lol but only for racial hit dice - class hit dice are different - if you want a source I'd have to find it but that's the general rule.

Quote:
Most special abilities that cause damage, such as breath weapons, give a save (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will depending on the ability). The DC for almost all special abilities is equal to 10 + 1/2 the creature's Hit Dice + a relevant ability modifier (usually Constitution or Charisma depending on the ability). Special abilities that add to melee and ranged attacks generally do not allow a save, as they rely on the attacks hitting to be useful.

From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterCreation.html


Also relevant for you:

Quote:

Step 2: Add Class Levels

Once you have determined the creature's role, it's time to add class levels. The first step of this process is to modify the creature's ability scores. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities. Creatures with NPC class levels do not receive adjustments to their ability scores.

Liberty's Edge

Creature stats seem completely inconsistent on this. For example, in the Inner Sea Monster Codex Derro DCs do not increase as they gain class levels... but Girtabilu DCs do.

I've seen many other examples of both.

My rule of thumb is to treat it like 'key' classes and abilities. For example, if a creature gets sneak attack from racial HD then they stack racial HD and Rogue levels to determine total sneak attack dice... but Wizard levels wouldn't factor in. Similarly, I'd have caster levels boost the DCs of SLAs... but not of a creature's natural poison.


If you peruse the universal rules many abilities specify racial HD such as breath weapon, and some don't like distraction.

A very quick (and far from comprehensive) skim indicates many 'physical' abilities specify racial HD, many mental/presence abilities do not.


And why is SR based on CR, so that key classes give you a bigger protective effect than the same number of non-key classes.


if the ability is based on total hit die than yes if the ability is based on racial hit die than no


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
And why is SR based on CR, so that key classes give you a bigger protective effect than the same number of non-key classes.

Because monsters (especially the larger ones) have far more hit dice than challenge rating. Take a look at the monster hit die by challenge rating table in the Bestiary. Especially at the upper end.

A CR 20 fey has (on a average according to the table) 37 hit dice. With the standard 11+ "some number" spell resistance, that would give you a SR of 31 (if based on CR) or 48 (if based on hit die). A level 20 caster would only have to roll an 11 to get a spell through the first, but would need to roll a 28 on a 20 sided die to get through the second.

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