I need to make an Arcane Class.
We're lacking Knowledges and it's probably a good idea if it's full spellcaster, unless you can find a decent 6th level arcane class that is not a bard, I couldn't.
Party composition is:
-Oracle of Life > only buffs and heals
-2TWF Slayer
-Ninja
I need to be doing the following:
-Crowd Control
-Blasting
-Buffing. Oracle is kinda new to Casting class and it's kinda bad at knowing what to do.
I'm thinking about going base Arcanist, unless there's something better in the archetypes, but I couldn't find anything: > I'm not sure how many exploits you actually need to make a competent arcanist
-I only need to prepare spells, doesn't matter if I cast them or not
-I won't use Summons. No, I won't. I hate keeping track of Summons.
Should I go Arcanist? My party sometimes is REALLY bad at doing damage, so I need to be able to chip in and contribute with damage as well.
Arcanist or even just an ordinary Wizard as long as you don't take Evocation or Transmutation as opposition schools. You will probably need to make yourself a wand of magic missile or something at some point as either an arcanist or a wizard.
Arcanist or even just an ordinary Wizard as long as you don't take Evocation or Transmutation as opposition schools. You will probably need to make yourself a wand of magic missile or something at some point as either an arcanist or a wizard.
A Wand of Magic Missiles?
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A wizard is what you need.
I'd recommend the best wizards (conjurors) but you've ruled that out so go with a buffer, and teleportation school.
Grease
Invisibility
Haste
Heroism
Every level has great spells.
Go elf and you can have some archery fun at levels 1 and 2.
Leave spell slots open and take every chance to fill your spell book.
Be over 100 and take breadth of knowledge for those skills.
Arcanist or even just an ordinary Wizard as long as you don't take Evocation or Transmutation as opposition schools. You will probably need to make yourself a wand of magic missile or something at some point as either an arcanist or a wizard.A Wand of Magic Missiles?
It's relatively cheap and a good fallback weapon.
A wizard is what you need.
I'd recommend the best wizards (conjurors) but you've ruled that out so go with a buffer, and teleportation school.Grease
Invisibility
Haste
Heroism
Every level has great spells.Go elf and you can have some archery fun at levels 1 and 2.
Leave spell slots open and take every chance to fill your spell book.
Be over 100 and take breadth of knowledge for those skills.
I have to second almost everything Geraint said.
Even without summoning a conjuration specialist is pretty good. They've got some nice offensive spells.
I'm partial to transmuters myself.
Arcanist or even just an ordinary Wizard as long as you don't take Evocation or Transmutation as opposition schools. You will probably need to make yourself a wand of magic missile or something at some point as either an arcanist or a wizard.A Wand of Magic Missiles?It's relatively cheap and a good fallback weapon.
A wizard is what you need.
I'd recommend the best wizards (conjurors) but you've ruled that out so go with a buffer, and teleportation school.Grease
Invisibility
Haste
Heroism
Every level has great spells.Go elf and you can have some archery fun at levels 1 and 2.
Leave spell slots open and take every chance to fill your spell book.
Be over 100 and take breadth of knowledge for those skills.Even without summoning a conjuration specialist is pretty good. They've got some nice offensive spells.
I'm partial to transmuters myself.
I know Wizard is best choice. I was playing one, died, we're around level 7.
I don't feel like rolling another Wizard, but we need to cover the Arcane side.
Things I don't wanna do:
-Summons. Too much work, and I don't feel like overshadowing melees
-Improved Familiars. It's cheesy. Eventually it's gonna be better than the Ninja. Don't want to overshadow
-UMD. We have an Oracle with great UMD roll, so I don't really need this.
I was thinking about going Brown-Fur Transmuter. Is it too complicated? My Melee guys are not really good with numbers and they forget a lot about their bonuses.
Also, does Eldritch Heritage gives me a familiar?
DO NOT TAKE ARCANE BLOODLINE FOR A FAMILIAR
use the familiar exploit instead.
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I was thinking about going Brown-Fur Transmuter. Is it too complicated? My Melee guys are not really good with numbers and they forget a lot about their bonuses.
Just print some cards to lay on the table:
Ex.Haste: 1 extra attack, +1 reflex save, +1 AC (dodge)
Also, does Eldritch Heritage gives me a familiar?
Arcane bloodline does.
You could consider a witch to cover the arcane spells, but I would recommend a Blockbuster admixture evoker or even better - a battering blast build (orc bloodline sorcerer for most dm.)
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You have good DPS and the oracle covers a lot as well, so wizard is honestly what you need, especially if item creation will be allowed.
Oracle is newbie. Fight were I died someone got Dominated, I wasn't there. No one thought of casting Protection from Evil.
Oracle struggles to heal and Buff. He's a guy with Medium armor and shield while never going into the frontlines.
Our Slayer is really unlucky at rolling most of the time, and the Ninja is kinda squishy.
Sometimes we make very bad tactical decisions, and even though I could point out some things, I don't feel like stepping into other people's shoes and telling them how to play their character.
If the Oracle wants only to heal, never cast Shield Other or Bless, his choice, not messing with that.
I know Wizard is best choice. I was playing one, died, we're around level 7.
I don't feel like rolling another Wizard, but we need to cover the Arcane side.
Things I don't wanna do:
-Summons. Too much work, and I don't feel like overshadowing melees
-Improved Familiars. It's cheesy. Eventually it's gonna be better than the Ninja. Don't want to overshadow
-UMD. We have an Oracle with great UMD roll, so I don't really need this.I was thinking about going Brown-Fur Transmuter. Is it too complicated? My Melee guys are not really good with numbers and they forget a lot about their bonuses.
Also, does Eldritch Heritage gives me a familiar?
Quick, an idea for a holiday gift for your group: the Buff deck. I haven't seen it, but I wanna get it for mine. The Conditions deck is great! And it includes four sets of cards, so each of four players can have a full set.
~~~
Disclaimer: I know Sorcerers, not wizards. So I may be missing something here. But I've read the arcanist class and I love it. And I don't understand why you want to go Brown-Fur if you don't want to do melee and do want blasting power. Why not just go Arcanist?
You've got high Int, lots of Knowledges, and spontaneous but flexible spellcasting. You can roll with how your party develops --
A mix of blasting & buffing for now.
As the oracle develops, a mix of blasting & debuffing.
As SR becomes a problem, a mix of blasting & battlefield control.
> And btw, "blasting" is specific to your situation, to the degree that you have intel on it. If you're primarily going up against a variety of cold monsters, load fire spells. If you know you're facing a BBEG with a vulnerability to electricity, well then, lightning it is.
> Plus, you've got exploits for some wonderful arcane pool blasts, including a force blast.
> And after you take one for a bonus metamagic feat, you can go for a second one that is interchangeable once a day. Again, the better intel you have, the more useful that will be -- but oh, the possibilities make me drool. And if you've only done wizards, you may not appreciate what metamagic does for a spontaneous caster.
As someone who loves being a spontaneous blaster, the arcanist has so much going for it right out of the box that I don't understand what brown-fur adds.
Similarly, if you really want a familiar, there's an exploit for it, nothing fancy needed. But... why not go solo? What will a familiar get you if you avoid melee touch spells? (Which is quite doable for a blaster.)
In short, maybe your first try with this class should be the basic class, just to experience the joys of spontaneity.
One thing on the blast spells, I feel that school understanding is a better choice most of the time
Disclaimer: I know Sorcerers, not wizards. So I may be missing something here. But I've read the arcanist class and I love it. And I don't understand why you want to go Brown-Fur if you don't want to do melee and do want blasting power. Why not just go Arcanist?
You can use Transmutation Spells with Personal Range on your allies.
One thing on the blast spells, I feel that school understanding is a better choice most of the time
Out of curiosity, better than what? And when? (That's just one exploit.) And which school? I would think Evocation for a blaster...
You can use Transmutation Spells with Personal Range on your allies.
Disclaimer: I know Sorcerers, not wizards. So I may be missing something here. But I've read the arcanist class and I love it. And I don't understand why you want to go Brown-Fur if you don't want to do melee and do want blasting power. Why not just go Arcanist?
{Edited: thanks for the explanation.}
Let the oracle figure it out, is still my advice. Debuff instead, or control the battlefield, to let them shine without a good buff. Or go ahead and buff at first, but be prepared to draw back to a prepared position... I mean to a strength of your own.
{EtA: Oracles of Life are fabulous at healing. And healing. And... well, healing. They're wonderful to have in a party. But they can feel really frustrated trying to do things on a turn by turn basis if they don't have someone bleeding to death in front of them. Don't take the shine out of your oracle's buffs is not just advice, actually, it's a heartfelt plea.}
One thing on the blast spells, I feel that school understanding is a better choice most of the timeOut of curiosity, better than what? And when? (That's just one exploit.) And which school? I would think Evocation for a blaster...
Sorry meant blast exploits (acid jet, force strike, etc...) Reason is does not necessarily drain your pool
Sorry meant blast exploits (acid jet, force strike, etc...) Reason is does not necessarily drain your poolOne thing on the blast spells, I feel that school understanding is a better choice most of the timeOut of curiosity, better than what? And when? (That's just one exploit.) And which school? I would think Evocation for a blaster...
At this point, I'm asking for myself, since I may well try a blaster arcanist at some point. (Maybe; I'm fearful of analysis paralysis every morning. But it looks soooo good...)
Assume I pick Evocation for School Understanding. Can you please walk me through which of the 2 features I should pick, and what I'd get without spending any arcane pts, and what I'd get from spending 1?
The mechanic that I've never worked with is that you only get 3 + 1/2-CL pts first thing, when the pool holds 3 + CL. A 7th level arcanist, as the OP would be building, gets 6 pts, and gets to add 2-3 spell-slots' worth over the course of the day. (It's a MAD build, so I don't see how you can get a CHA bonus higher than +3.) And is unlikely to want to spend their highest slots on this, so another 4-6 pts is all they can expect.
I suppose you can fritter those 10-12 away pretty quick in a 3-combat day!
At this point, I'm asking for myself, since I may well try a blaster arcanist at some point. (Maybe; I'm fearful of analysis paralysis every morning. But it looks soooo good...)Assume I pick Evocation for School Understanding. Can you please walk me through which of the 2 features I should pick, and what I'd get without spending any arcane pts, and what I'd get from spending 1?
The mechanic that I've never worked with is that you only get 3 + 1/2-CL pts first thing, when the pool holds 3 + CL. A 7th level arcanist, as the OP would be building, gets 6 pts, and gets to add 2-3 spell-slots' worth over the course of the day. (It's a MAD build, so I don't see how you can get a CHA bonus higher than +3.) And is unlikely to want to spend their highest slots on this, so another 4-6 pts is all they can expect.
I suppose you can fritter those 10-12 away pretty quick in a 3-combat day!
I'm confused about the School Understanding too. I'm not even sure what I get without spending any arcane points.
I don't feel like taking School Savant and losing 1-3-7 level exploits honestly, but maybe it's worth, I'm not sure.The advantage is that if you prepare a spell from prohibited school you lose nothing, only the extra slot given by the Archetype, but you can still cast the spell several times.
The class is built into the idea of using Spell Slots to recover Arcane points. That's why CHA "matters".
In all honestly you have those points to do some crazy things like Dimensional Slide, or just get a +2 CL or DC for very important spells that you need to hit.
I think the Arcane Exploits (unless permanents) are there to give some flavor to the class.
Ok, you would get the 3+int attack of Evoker (Force missile IIRC). however it would change all INT references To CHR. SO 3+CHR uses of a 1d4 always hits force bolt
If you spend a point, you would get to add 1/2 your arcanist levels to all your damaging evoke spells for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier
Now, the reason I say this is advantageous is that because you do not need to use a pool point to power the simple d4 attack, most (not this one) would also add damage based on your level.
There are ways to get more points BTW, note that your CHR is not adding damage, just how long the power lastss
note: ADvacating for the exploit not the archtype
note: ADvacating for the exploit not the archtype
I feel like the mini power you would get it doesn't really matter at levels past 3+.
That's why I don't like it much.
Compared to the other attack exploits still better: Take evoker compared to force strike
Force strike d4+Level
Evoker d4+1/2 level; also gets to add 1/2 level to other spells for X number of rounds
I agree.
I didn't feel like starting with a 20 INT, but man I see no reasons not to do it!
I think I'm just gonna go Base Arcanist so I can take as many Exploits as I'd like without worrying too much about not having enough of them.
I'm confused whether Admixture is important or not.
I wanted to get Fireball with Magical Lineage to pair with Rime Spell for some added CC, but I'm not sure it's worth an Archetype and a Trait
Do I need Spell Focus Evocation if I plan to throw some Evocation spells? Are they a necessity or I can do by without them?
I don't usually target Saves or I just go CC Spells that most of the time always work.
If you are worried about over-shadowing the group take a 2 level dip of Investigator. Will give you the Knowledge skills you want and the drop in outright casting power will narrow the gap with the rest of the group. This also gets Cure Light wounds on your list if the Oracle needs a hand.
FYI, by level 7 the lack of progression in the Oracle's Fort save makes front-lining quite a risk to your only healer.
I'm in this weird spot right now:
- Group wants me to cast fireball or magic missile, because they fail a lot when rolling and we lack damage
- We have no Knowledge guy. I don't feel like playing a Wizard, so I have to either play an Arcanist or Sorcerer with the INT Mutation
- I'm extremely unfamiliar with Evocation Spells. I have no idea if casting a standard Fireball at level 7 will be any good. In my head this is a complete waste.
I mean, I'm wasting a level 3 slot for a potential 20-30 average damage.
I'm trying to find a way to Maximize my damage with evocation spell while still having access to high INT.
I know evocation isn't optimal, but my group most of the time fails to see that casting Glitterdust or Create Pit is 10 times more useful than casting Magic Missile.
Since I don't want to go the Summons way, I'm left with specializing in Evocation to do the most optimal damage, while being able to cast Create Pit, Haste, Heroism, Grease, Aqueous Orb.
I tried to look for Cold Spell to pair up with Rime Spell, but couldn't find anything.
Since this is RotRL, I can look into Dazing Spell for level 4 Spells as well, would be a level 6 slot with -1 Metamagic Reduction.
The BEST option I've found so far is:
Crossblooded Sorcerer with Orc/Draconic for +2 to damage for each
Then Wizard.
I get Sorcerer spell Progression, with some extra level 1 Spells that would be mostly useless.
Spell Focus/GSF + Spell Specialization + Mage's Tatoo will give me some boosts to damage.
Thing is, I'm playing a Wizard :P
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Fireball is generally a weaker option than haste. But if you are looking to optimise evocation then the blockbuster wizard is the solution. A note of caution: this build can deliver so much damage you risk trivialising encounters and overshadowing your non-optimised fellows. Perhaps you can draw on the build without fully implementing it?
There's a build example here. You can also find a Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard with a bit of searching.
The core concept is dipping cross blooded sorcerer (Orc/Dragon) (which I see you have found) for one level on an evocation (admixture sub school) wizard.
Fireball is generally a weaker option than haste. But if you are looking to optimise evocation then the blockbuster wizard is the solution. A note of caution: this build can deliver so much damage you risk trivialising encounters and overshadowing your non-optimised fellows. Perhaps you can draw on the build without fully implementing it?
There's a build example here. You can also find a Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard with a bit of searching.
The core concept is dipping cross blooded sorcerer (Orc/Dragon) (which I see you have found) for one level on a an evocation (admixture sub school) wizard.
That's the idea. I wanna be a fully specialized blaster that uses the God Wizard spells, until I see something is going awry, then I blast the hell out of the enemy.
Of course my Conjuration spells won't have a high DC, but it's an AP, I don't need sky rocketing DC to have an impact on a fight.Now I need to find a good spell besides Fireball. I don't like it much, because if allies are in there I will be killing them.
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Now I need to find a good spell besides Fireball. I don't like it much, because if allies are in there I will be killing them.
selective spell is your friend. Although not available before level 10 you can get it via metamagic rods and you only need a lesser version for fireball / lightning bolt.
Oracle is newbie. Fight were I died someone got Dominated, I wasn't there. No one thought of casting Protection from Evil.
Oracle struggles to heal and Buff. He's a guy with Medium armor and shield while never going into the frontlines.
Our Slayer is really unlucky at rolling most of the time, and the Ninja is kinda squishy.
Sometimes we make very bad tactical decisions, and even though I could point out some things, I don't feel like stepping into other people's shoes and telling them how to play their character.
If the Oracle wants only to heal, never cast Shield Other or Bless, his choice, not messing with that.
Yes, I'm backing up to look at your overall situation. Starting with that big dose of sympathy I didn't give you at first. I truly am so very sorry that you came back from being gone to find out that your character had died. That's rough, real rough.
And a lot of your complaints about the group make sense to me. It's the ones about the oracle that don't, entirely.
As for buffing, what exactly does the oracle do round by round? Are you guys taking so much damage that there's healing to be done all the time? If so, well, they may be doing the more important job. But I'm assuming there's rounds where the player gets to do something else, and you're looking for that buff that isn't coming. So here's some entirely unsolicited advice -- take it or leave it, by all means.
It's possible that the player just doesn't remember all of their spells when they're figuring out their PC's actions. As someone who loves to play a spontaneous caster, I can certainly relate. And I've developed a great tool for those moments when my "go to" spells aren't appropriate. I'm recommending that you consider horning in on your fellow player's turf enough to offer them a gift: a Spell Tome.
The lovely thing about a spontaneous caster is that they have a very small list of spells to pick from in the heat of battle. You'd have to get the oracle's spell list, including their mystery spells, of course. I copy each spell I can cast from the PRD & paste it into Word. (Thank you, Paizo, for the PRD!) If I print in as small a type as I can manage, tiny margins & two-columns, it's not that many pages to flip through when I'm thinking about what to cast. I do delete info that looks extraneous, such as class levels other than (in this case) oracle, as that saves me a line, or the action if it's standard, and so on -- and mostly, things that look unnecessary in the description itself. It might be safer to just copy the whole darn thing, though, if you're doing this as a gift to the oracle player. I also organize my spells by level and then alphabetically.
My suggestion is that you do the work at least for the current level, and hand a finished Spell Tome to the oracle as a holiday gift. Let the player see how powerful it is in play. It's incredibly powerful, is the point. I regularly flip through mine (as a sorcerer) whenever my "go to" spells aren't appropriate. You may not have thought of this if you mostly play wizards; your spellbook is hideously larger! Even an arcanist may not be able to get away with this, unfortunately. But pure spontaneous casters really, really need a Spell Tome, especially as we level up.
I have a couple more comments for you, on your arcanist. (I'm glad you're going with the base class.) On it being a MAD build: there sure look to be a lot of abilities that depend on a CHA of at least 14 or so, and I'd think you'd want a DEX of at least 14, for the ray spells you're likely to want to cast. I don't know how many pts you have to work with, though. Plus, people here have a lot more experience with building characters, and may horn in with what is no doubt going to be better advice. But that's mine. :)
FWIW, I scrolled through the racial Favored Class Bonuses, and noticed two that might be worth looking at. (Not elf, sadly, although if you're already 7th level the archer stuff is less important.)
>> Half-Orcs - Arcanist: Gain a +1 bonus on concentration checks made because of taking damage while casting arcanist spells.
>> Humans - Arcanist: Add one spell from the arcanist spell list to the arcanist's spellbook. This spell must be at least 1 level lower than the highest-level spell the arcanist can cast.
In any case, I wish your brand-new arcanist & your group well.
Oracle
Thing is he took an achievement feat, once he healed 1000 HP all of his Cure Spells are maximized. But the pool only increases with spells cast from Oracle. So you can see there's a "conflict of interests" issue in here.
I've never seen the Oracle cast Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil. Most of the time he spends his turn either using Channel Energy, Cure Light Wounds or Summon Monster 1.I get that he's new, but we're already level 7, and we started at level 1.
He also doesn't own a weapon, so during combat he just hangs in the back, when sometimes a flanking buddy would be nice to have.
He has 14 CON with Medium Armor and Heavy Shield, so his AC is not THAT bad.
Regarding Arcanist
I'm gonna use the Blockbuster Wizard Guide but use it with the Arcanist. I might go School Savant, which basically gives me another Spell Prepared per day for the 1-3-7 Exploits.
It's kinda a loss, but in all honestly the most needed Exploit is the +2 DC/CL instead of +1.Most of the others are kinda situational.
I won't be doing any crafting, so I don't worry about that. I just don't feel like playing a prepared caster.
OracleThing is he took an achievement feat, once he healed 1000 HP all of his Cure Spells are maximized. But the pool only increases with spells cast from Oracle. So you can see there's a "conflict of interests" issue in here.
I've never seen the Oracle cast Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil. Most of the time he spends his turn either using Channel Energy, Cure Light Wounds or Summon Monster 1.
I get that he's new, but we're already level 7, and we started at level 1.
He also doesn't own a weapon, so during combat he just hangs in the back, when sometimes a flanking buddy would be nice to have.
He has 14 CON with Medium Armor and Heavy Shield, so his AC is not THAT bad.
A good AC is important even for healers who hang back out of the fray, especially if he has a decent DEX as well as CON. As for the weapon, you as a group have to have recovered at least some masterwork simple weapons. Does he sell them if you hand him one? Maybe you can ask the GM to drop a tasty magic dagger into the next loot haul. In any case, I gather your complaint is that he has the armor & isn't taking advantage of it. <sigh>
In the same way, of course, he's not taking advantage of his spells. It's a nice feat and all (story feat? I haven't heard of "achievement feats"), but obviously, it would be better for the group if he reached his achievement a little slower and helped out more along the way. It's possible that he didn't learn your set of basics: Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil. Holy Whatever, he might not have picked up Prayer yet. But he has to have learned spells. And they don't make enough healing spells to fill his set. If you tell him in a helpful way that you learned a trick for spontaneous spellcasters and want to print him out a Spell Tome, and then ask him for his spells known, he can turn you down. But if he accepts, there you'll be. You can help him figure out other options for his turns just by making it easy for him to see in the thick of the fray whatever it is that he's picked. I don't think it can hurt.
As for arcanist, it looks like you're set. Enjoy walking on the spontaneous side!