Advice fighter build (First time playing)


Advice


Hello everyone,

I have some experience playing D&D (has been a while though), but recently a friend of mine has been wanting to try out Pathfinder.
It seems to be pretty similar a system and I guess I shouldn't be to suprised seeing it's origins.
Still I wouldn't mind some feedback on my first build.

The rules are 15 point pointbuy with only one 8 allowed in the build becuase our DM isn't to fond of minmaxing.
For our our first builds we are mostly sticking to core.

For my first build I went rather safe.

Human Fighter lvl 1:

Stats:
STR: 16+2
DEX: 13
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Defences:
AC:20
Fort: 3, Ref: 1, Will: 1

Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Weapon Focus (longsword)

Skills:
Climb +1, Swim +1

Weapons:
Longsword
Flail
Javelin(10)

Armor:
Scalemail
Towershield

Feats I am considering:
Dodge
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
Shield Focus
Toughness
Weapon Specialization (longsword)

Grand Lodge

no tower shield....just go large..you need a separate proficiency for tower. Cleave is so-so i find...maybe toughness for added survivability or one if the feats to add to your saves. Flail is ok...morning star is better because it gives you piercing as well as bludgeoning. skills are debatable...perception and survival are always handy...don't forget you get an extra skill point for human. this is my 2 cp....


Well lets start at the basics.

What exactly do you want your fighter to do? Is there a particular weapon style (sword/shield, two weapon fighting, polearms) or battlefield role (such as tripping, bullrushing, teamwork, etc) you want to take? Do you want to deal all the damage, or absorb all the hits? Are there any archtypes that looked interesting?

Fighters aren't the most flexible of classes at the end of the day but they do have a fairly diverse amount of builds that (generally) work.

That said, few things. I wouldn't recommend a tower shield starting out due to the -2 attack penalty that'll make things rough early on. A simple heavy shield is only 2 ac less without a penalty. In addition, if you intend on taking weapon focus/spec for longswords, than bastard sword proficiency is worse than useless. Cleave also isn't very useful since without reach you'll barely ever be able to use it due to the requirement of enemies being adjacent.


My romance with weapon specific feats is done, so I recommend against them. What if your GM includes a magic battle axe or scimitar in a treasure hoard? If you do take such a feat, do so later on.

Not one uses tower shields, and for good reason. Save up for a heavy dark wood shield.

As a human, you have one more skill point per level. Are you putting your favored class bonus in hit points or skill points?

Do you plan on going increasing that 13 to a 14 at some point? You might want to move it from Dex to Con so it can be a 14. It's up to you. Is this point buy or rolled ability scores? If point but then I recommend 15+2 for your starting Str. Use those points elsewhere and increase Str at 4th level.

Silver Crusade

OP, Pathfinder rewards specialization, even with a Fighter. Find your fighting style and go with it.

For sword and shield, you will need Power Attack soon, but not at first level. Hitting matters more than damage. If you have played other systems and video games it is not easy to understand but tanking and aggro do not work in Pathfinder. The battle paradigm is about hitting as hard and as quickly as possible.

Your build ideas suggest a guy who can tough it out. He won't. Con is too low and he can't hit hard enough to drop the enemy quickly.


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grimdog73 wrote:
no tower shield....just go large..you need a separate proficiency for tower.

I think fighters get Tower shield proficiency as a class ability.

Looks like a solid first level build. You might consider dropping the strength down a little, and upping Int and Con. You will still kick a lot of ass, and Int will let you develop social and other skills so you can do more then just combat. If your GM allows traits, you can make diplomacy a class skill, and take a feat that gives you a bonus. There are similar tricks to get access to other skill options.

As others mentioned, some feats are better then others, at least from a numerical perspective. Bastard sword proficiency is kind of ho-hum. I think it just gives you +1 average damage per hit. Cleave is kind of cool at low levels when you can kill two goblins, but less useful later on when you don't want to go toe-to-toe with two fire giants at once. Remember that you can always retrain combat feats later on!

There are two big questions when designing a character like this:
What other characters will you be adventuring with? Look for synergy with other party members. For example, if you have a cleric who will be channeling positive energy (healing) a lot you can let your AC be lower then normal. If there is no ranged character, you will want to invest archery.
What level of optimization is the group? In a lower op group, if you show up with a absolute blending machine, with no other abilities, you are going to make the other characters feel useless in combat, while being bored yourself out of combat. On the other hand, if you make average Joe the guy with a little of everything, you might find yourself useless in combat.

Finally, a little warning about the message boards. There are some people here who will say that fighters are useless and any character who can't kill a CR+1 foe in a single round is a liability. Ignore these people! The truth is that the default game is really not that hard, and you can do just fine with a 14 strength, a few feats toward diplomacy, and just about any weapon. I recommend just looking at a few different scenarios, such as a social situation, a ranged combat, an adventuring situation, etc., and try to have something to contribute to each. You built a good character if you can participate in most of the game, not dominate one aspect of it.


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Oh yeah, one more thing.
Don't neglect your will save! Plan on one of your feats going into iron will at some point (+2 on will saves) and try to get a spell like Protection from Evil cast on you as much as possible. Not only will this give you +2 to your AC and saves when fighting evil opponents, but it will also prevent you from being dominated or otherwise mind controlled. The worst kind of fighter is the one who attacks his own party members. Don't build that kind of fighter!

Sovereign Court

I advise against the tower shield, the -2 to attacks is atrocious, especially at first level. Get a heavy wooden shield.

Cleave is very useful at low level and can be retrained at 4th level or later. Dodge/Toughness are solid first level choices as well.

You could also go for a more balanced stats route, like 14(16)/14/14/10/12/8, since fighter has increased max Dex bonus and hp and Fort saves are important.

Pick a weapon to set Focus on (preferably on 1st or 2nd level), in order to get Specialization with it at level 4.
Longsword are decent choice - I would not waste a feat on bastard sword (unless style/looks are that important to you).
Note that critical hits multiply Power Attack (and some other) bonuses in Pathfinder, so 18-20/x2 weapons are usually better in the long run than 19-20/x2 - if you want to maximize your damage.


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I, against what many on this board will tell you, enjoy my tower shields.

Of course, if you want to go down the tower shield route, I MUST suggest you take the tower-shield specialist archetype. It boosts your tower shield and eventually causes it to act like a true shield against even magic and touch attacks, as well as doing away with that nasty -2 to hit.
note- you remove the -2 to hit at level 5, so if you would rather trade two AC for two to hit just take a heavy shield until level 5.

However, if you don't wish to do this, you need to decide if you would rather focus on defense, or attack, or a mixture of both.

Fighters get plenty of feats, and these feats can allow you to swap between offensive and defensive styles in a fight. Feats like- combat expertise can be used in this way, along with a couple other feats I honestly cannot remember the exact names of.

fighters are, imo, the most VERSATILE CLASS when it comes to building a theme/style/look or what have you. You can literally make any weapon/idea work with them. I also would advice against TWF builds, while you have plenty of feats, twf almost requires you use all them.


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As Fergie mentioned, you could drop your Str score to raise your other stats instead. I wouldn't recommend to buy a 16 when you're at 15 point buy. I'd drop your Str score by one to raise your Con to 14.

Stats:
STR: 15+2
DEX: 13
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Defences:
AC:18*
Fort: 4, Ref: 1, Will: 1

Armor:
Scalemail
Heavy Shield*

The difference between the Heavy Shield and the Tower Shield is +2 AC and -2 to hit. 1 AC/-1 Attack isn't a good trade.
(And if you still want to use a Tower Shield you can take thelizardwizard's advice and wait until level 5)

Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Weapon Focus (longsword)

The largest newbie-crusher (as in newbie adventurer) is random crits. I'd recommend the feat 'Fortified Armor Training' at early levels, which let's you negate crits, since you seem to be focused on defense. I'd probably take that feat instead of Cleave, and wait one level for that.

Fortified Armor Training:
Prerequisite: Proficient with armor or shield.

Benefit: If an opponent scores a critical hit against you, you can turn the critical hit into a normal hit. If you do, either your armor or your shield gains the broken condition (your choice).

*****

But as your Armor/Shield will break, I'd buy 2-3 Heavy Wooden Shields at the start of your career and switch them out as they're used up.

=======================

The changes would be:

+1 HP
+1 Fortitude save
+1 to Hit
Ability to negate critical hits

-1 Damage
-2 AC


I like Avenger's Stat array, myself (S16,D14,C14,I10,W12,Ch8), because I firmly believe that all fighters should have a composite longbow on hand. While you won't be the best switch-hitter in the game, being able to attack things at range is invaluable and oft-neglected by fighters (I realize you have javelins, but a longbow is just *so* much better.)

Fighters also have the luxury of getting enough feats to afford taking some ranged combat feats now and again (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot being the big 4, and in order of importance.)

I'd even go so far as to go with:

1) Point Blank Shot
F1) Precise Shot
H) Weapon Focus (Longsword)

As my 1st level feats, picking up Power Attack at level 2. I just think the versatility is invaluable (and you could honestly neglect ranged attack feats for the remainder of your career at that point.)

I'd also recommend checking out archetypes if you're allowed to use them.

Also, as a general note, be aware of the excellent online resources at your disposal if you aren't already. PF is an OGL product, so all the crunchy feats, classes, archetypes, etc, are all available online for free:

Paizo.com/prd

d20pfsrd.com (more complete reference guide, including 3rd party material, but I'm not the biggest fan of the layout. Additionally, because the site sells books, it doesn't use proper names of deities, places, etc)

Archivesofnethys.com (my favorite of the three prd's, but it's a little out of date.)

Pathfinderwiki.com (great for information on the Golarion campaign setting.)


I would suggest a stat array like- 15/14/13/10/12/08 with the +2 going to Str. level 4 bump strength by 1, level 8 bump con.

1- point blank shot, weapon focus, quick draw/something you like.

you don't need precise shot because you want to be IN the melee once it starts, you shoot secondary.

and yes, fighters are much better not plain vanilla due to advanced armor/weapon training abilities, however some fighter archetypes are still a god-send. (mutation warrior is a great way to make a really versatile fighter)


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Please do not get discouraged if your fighter isn't able to do everything you wish they could do.

Contrary to popular belief, the Fighter is not a class for beginners. It takes a ton of system mastery to make a fighter really shine.

Playing a fighter is a great way to learn the combat and movement system though.

For your next character, consider a Barbarian or Sorcerer. They're great introductory classes.


I actually disagree that barbarians are an introductory class, based on the simple fact that

a. A barbarian really needs to know what he can/can't kill. They inherently have low AC, which means getting hit a lot. A fighter on the other hand will often have 5+ AC and similar hp to a barbarian

b. Rage hp. Often times newer players will forget just how much temp hp they get from rage in a fight, and, end rage only to drop dead.

If I was truly going to suggest a martial class for a new player, it would be a paladin.

OI do agree on the fact sorcerers are great intro into magic however.


I think rangers are generally said to be the easiest class to play.

I second losing Cleave.That's generally good in specific campaigns that are a little heavy on mook swarms. For sheer damage I would look out power attack trees, they've got some cool stuff.


I honestly wouldn't try to go sword and board fighter for my first attempt. There's just too much to balance between TWF with shield bashes and the defensive shield feats (few of which are in the CRB) I'd pick up a greatsword and power attack. You'll do just fine with literally only that for the first few levels and the 2handed weapon build has the fewest required feat choices to be perfectly functional.


Thanks everyone for the great advice given. Will definately have to redo the build a bit.

As for some of the questions:
Bastard sword wasnt for the style, just considering it for the bigger hitdice although I suspected it might not be worth it.
Obviously if I would go thst way the focusfeat would become bastard sword aswell.
Convinced though that I wont be going bastardsword.

The style I was going for was mostly "the guy infront". Not going full defence, but definately the sword and shield idea over the twohanded or twoweapon fighter or the archer.

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