Scaled Fist monk builds?


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Liberty's Edge

So apparently there's been a Monk archetype that gets Cha instead of Wis to relevant class skills (AC/Stunning Fist DC/etc) floating around for a couple of months and there's been an almost complete lack of discussion about it.

I feel like there's almost certainly some juicy multiclasses waiting to be explored, although I can't seem to patch anything together...a one level dip gets you immediate access to Dragon Style, which is mildly useful, and very little else. A four level dip gets you a ki pool and the ability to add 1d6 elemental damage to each of your natural attacks as a swift action. Nothing terribly exciting, but I'm so pumped at the idea of a Cha-based monk I'm hoping someone with better system mastery will spot something I overlooked.

Thoughts?


I'm not sure if the two archetypes are compatible (they don't seem to replace any of the same things) but if you're able to also use the Far Strike Monk, then you can pick up Desna's Shooting Star and have CHA to-hit and to-damage with your starknives on a Flurry. Noble Scion will add your CHA to initiative, a level dip in Lore Oracle would let you add CHA to knowledge skills instead of INT, and others listed here.


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Options that have occurred to me would be dipping 1-2 levels in this archetype for a Sorcerer with a very good AC or taking 4 levels in this archetype and 1 level in Sorcerer or Bard to become a Dragon Disciple.

This archetype also combines nicely with the Ascetic Oracle mystery from the Villain Codex whenever you are high enough level to rely on the Ascetic Armor revelation instead of actual armor.

Sovereign Court

I'm definitely doing a Dragon Disciple route. I went with the Imperial dragon arcana, but the Outer dragon arcana could be useful for locking down spellcasters (Lunar dragon/ chill touch - damaged enemies can't 5-ft step).

Liberty's Edge

Far Strike and Scaled Fist don't stack. The starknife trick mentioned above would still work with a level of Cleric and Crusader's Flurry, though. Assuming you can manage to be a NG Monk, anyway (which is doable).

Another possibility is grabbing a few levels of Paladin, then going Monk. 4 levels of Oath of Vengeance Paladin is a good 'dip' on most martial builds that are based on Charisma. Go Paladin of Bahamut and this even makes good thematic sense.

Dipping one level of Scaled Fist is also a solid dip for a Sorcerer or Oracle...if you're willing to dip either of those classes at all (which is a big if).


Sensei and scaled fist do stack. Which means there's a battle herald waiting to be made using something like daring champion cavalier 2 / scaled fist sensei monk 3, getting charisma to attack with monk weapons or unarmed strikes. Order of the eastern star would make their defences impressive, or order of the cockatrice gives them another way to use that charisma offensively.

Liberty's Edge

An option I've been toying with is Fox Shape Kitsune monk. Possibly with a 1 level dip into Mouser Swashbuckler. Your AC will be extremely high, and with Elemental Fury and access to Elemental Fist through Dragon Style, you can get a lot of damage in as well as high-DC Stunning Fists.

Given that Blood of the Beast now has an option to get Fox Shape from level 1, it comes online quickly. Also, remember that Scaled Fists also get access to the Linnorm/Tatzylwyrm/Wyvern Styles as bonus feats, if any of them interest you.

Sovereign Court

Dip one level into Scaled Fist as a Swashbuckler and go unarmored.


i was in another thread a week or so ago where we came up with an Aasimar with the Enlightened Warrior Trait who dips Crusader Cleric of Desna then goes unchained Scaled Fist the rest of the way. you can get CHA to hit, damage, AC and initiative while flurrying with a starnknife.

Edit: I would go with the Azata-kin for Glitterdust, DEX and CHA boosts. Agathion get CON and CHA though which is also nice.

Sovereign Court

Sadly (well not really, it was too good to be true) the Desna fighting style won't work in PFS. Starry Grace is still there if you go dex-based though.

I'm still considering ways to use this archetype to do various "barechested badass" bloodrager builds. I'm looking at the Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy in particular. The whole "my pecs are so impressive I don't need armor" thing.


Man, I was hoping Desna fighting style would make it into PFS since the author made an argument showing why it wasn't overpowered.


Osmin wrote:
So apparently there's been a Monk archetype that gets Cha instead of Wis to relevant class skills (AC/Stunning Fist DC/etc) floating around for a couple of months and there's been an almost complete lack of discussion about it.

The problem, similar to why Desna's Shooting Star doesn't stir that much buzz, is that Cha is the wort stat to focus on. Dex to damage is awesome because it boost init, AC (at least for a monk), and a save. Charisma has... a few skills. That's literally it.

Copied from the thread Torbyne mentioned:

Scaled Fist would be good if someone didn't have the weird idea that monks were overpowered and thus Unchained Monk must have a bad save. Also, it would be good if there was a way to flurry with a starknife without jumping through 15 flaming hoops. Horror Adventures has a Cleric archetype that would actually make such a build viable on a dip... if that Cleric didn't have to worship Cthulhu.
As it is, the better bonus feats are useless because a) you have to spend normal feats to patching up your will save, so there's no net gain, and b) the only one where ignoring the prereqs would be really nice (Shatter Defenses) only becomes selectable at the level where you want to pick the feat (Medusa's Wrath) that's the biggest reason you'd want it; and the Cha focus is completely wasted by being forced to dump Int* on a 4 skill rank class, which means not many skill ranks to spare on diplomacy or UMD.

@Torbyne: Enlightened Warrioris only aviable for Agathion-Blooded (Idyllkin). Also, you simply need way to many feats to make it work: Divine Fighting Technique, Crusader's Flurry, Ascetic Style, Ascetic Form. And then you want Power Attack, Angelic Blood, Angelic Wings, Steadfast Personality, and Noble Scion.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Sadly (well not really, it was too good to be true) the Desna fighting style won't work in PFS.

What? Why? Unless they print a charisma based warpriest, I don't think there's a single character build where Desna's Shooting Star would fall under "really strong".

In what way is it "too good to be true"?

Sovereign Court

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Given the amount of hoops you have to jump through to get dex to hit and damage on a weapon (2-3 feats, some skills, free hands), getting all that for a single feat for Charisma, wasn't likely to make it into PFS.

And while you're right that it isn't that impressive for this particular archetype, nor for a war priest, that doesn't mean it's not a super-nice feat for a bard. It's also not shabby for a flying blade swashbuckler.


CHA flying blade gets better cha skills, worse dex skills, forced to be certain alignments, lower ac, lower initiative, lower reflex save, better charmed life, higher panache pool, bad crit range. in 1 feat but no weapon focus bonus.

DEX flying blade gets better dex skills, worse cha skills, higher ac, higher initiative, higher reflex save, worse charmed life, lower panache pool, can have good crit range. in 2 feats but has weapon focus bonus.

Bard, It is better for, 1 feat instead of 3, but then they get free access to the divine technique so it's meant to be good for them. And you're still sacrificing having a lower dex and all that entails for the cha boost. damage is roughly the same, crit and base weapon die options for dex based.

Is it nice? Of course, it's a nice option. Is it so much better it's the required way to go? I don't think so. Thus I don't see a reason for it's ban. Other than the fear of getting X to Y.


In a world where Chain Challenge is banned obviously Desna's shooting star had to be banned.

Also you haven't even mentioned the worst offender that caster Oracle with 20 CHA who gets CHA to AC hit and Damage in melee or at range if he's bored of slinging debuffs.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Man. What a weird thread. I click it curious what people are saying about the archetype and instead find random political jabs and people complaining about cavaliers and oracles instead.


Alex Mack wrote:

In a world where Chain Challenge is banned obviously Desna's shooting star had to be banned.

Also you haven't even mentioned the worst offender that caster Oracle with 20 CHA who gets CHA to AC hit and Damage in melee or at range if he's bored of slinging debuffs.

The oracle does get some good use from it too, but if he's not made for combat it's only a small melee buff to the caster oracle. And if made for combat you're missing out on crit range and better base damage plus missing out on 1.5 str.

Like, making good attack rolls isn't always useful, thus it's a nice option for class but not a required game changing option like the cha to saves feat. Because the easiest, simplest, and very effective way of doing combat is using str, so if that's your focus str is still probably the better route to go.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In an attempt to re-rail this thread, which do you think is better for a 1-level unchained scaled fist dip on a paladin?

Str based, use a two-handed weapon, take crusader's flurry to flurry with that weapon.

Dex based, use unarmed strikes and an agile AoMF.


str based with dragon style, for free and dragon ferocity at character lv5.
Gives you the coolness of fists and the damage of a two-hander.


Arutema wrote:

In an attempt to re-rail this thread, which do you think is better for a 1-level unchained scaled fist dip on a paladin?

Str based, use a two-handed weapon, take crusader's flurry to flurry with that weapon.

Dex based, use unarmed strikes and an agile AoMF.

STR based with a Sansetsukon and Crane Style.


You could use a temple sword two-handed and flurry with it without needing to take crusader's flurry. Strength-based is a lower cost as usual.

You can dump str harder on a dex-based attacker than you can dex on a str-based one though, especially since this character wouldn't have to carry armor or melee weapons if dex-based; what point buy and starting level are you imagining Arutema?

Sovereign Court

Arutema wrote:

In an attempt to re-rail this thread, which do you think is better for a 1-level unchained scaled fist dip on a paladin?

Str based, use a two-handed weapon, take crusader's flurry to flurry with that weapon.

Dex based, use unarmed strikes and an agile AoMF.

Two-handed with a weapon. You don't gain most of the advantages of unarmed with only a single level in Umonk (flying kick/higher dice damage etc.).


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if only it didn't trade out still mind, would be so good with CoI


Arutema wrote:

In an attempt to re-rail this thread, which do you think is better for a 1-level unchained scaled fist dip on a paladin?

Str based, use a two-handed weapon, take crusader's flurry to flurry with that weapon.

Dex based, use unarmed strikes and an agile AoMF.

They don't even need it.

My starting 20 point build at the moment is.

Aasimar

Str:18
Con:12
Dex:14
Int:12
Wis:7
Chr:16

Traits: Fates favored, Irrepressible

Irrepressible uses your charisma instead of your wis for charm and compulsions effects. The scaled fist will have +4 against fear from archetype and dragon style.

With fates favored and a four leaf clover, a cheap, slotless magical item you can get +3 to saves 3 times a day.

With stone fist gloves, enlarge person, dragon style feats and power attack you hit like a truck.

If I where to dip I would wait until at least level 11 when you get that extra attack and have ki leech for essentially unlimited KI. Then perhaps dip Paladin for some saves.

Sovereign Court

Chess Pwn wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:

In a world where Chain Challenge is banned obviously Desna's shooting star had to be banned.

Also you haven't even mentioned the worst offender that caster Oracle with 20 CHA who gets CHA to AC hit and Damage in melee or at range if he's bored of slinging debuffs.

The oracle does get some good use from it too, but if he's not made for combat it's only a small melee buff to the caster oracle. And if made for combat you're missing out on crit range and better base damage plus missing out on 1.5 str.

Like, making good attack rolls isn't always useful, thus it's a nice option for class but not a required game changing option like the cha to saves feat. Because the easiest, simplest, and very effective way of doing combat is using str, so if that's your focus str is still probably the better route to go.

It becomes rather easy to make a 9-level caster that also gets the fighty stuff;

- Sidestep secret revelation: Cha to AC and Reflex
- Noble Scion: Cha to Initiative
- Desna's Shooting Star: Cha to hit and damage
- Oracle: Cha was your casting stat all along

Being able to dump both dexterity and strength and not having any especial need for intelligence, that's rather a lot.


Is it making the caster a better caster? no.
Is it so good that you're "required" to get it like cha to ac? I don't think so
Are you the best way to make a fighting build? No, that's still str.
So it helps out a few mid range characters cover a few of their weaknesses, or it makes a weak fighting style slightly more viable.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
avr wrote:

You could use a temple sword two-handed and flurry with it without needing to take crusader's flurry. Strength-based is a lower cost as usual.

You can dump str harder on a dex-based attacker than you can dex on a str-based one though, especially since this character wouldn't have to carry armor or melee weapons if dex-based; what point buy and starting level are you imagining Arutema?

20 point buy. likely using a pfs rebuild boon to start at level 6.

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed a post and response to it. Let's leave real-world political commentary out of the Advice threads, thanks!


@Arutema: a couple of examples of how it might work out then.

Suli scaled fist unchained monk 1 / chosen one paladin 5
Str 15+1+2=18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7-2=5, Wis 10, Cha 16+2=18
Feats IUS, Stunning Fist, Dragon Style, Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Charge Through

Halfling scaled fist unchained monk 1 / oath of vengeance paladin 5
Str 7-2=5, Dex 15+1+2=18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16+2=18
(or drop Int to 7 to raise Dex to 20; I'd take the chosen one archetype instead then so you're not entirely without knowledge (religion), which is embarrassing for divine types.)
Feats IUS, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, Risky Striker

The first is a dangerous charger, the second is less dangerous when mobile but has better defences and actually does more damage when they get a full attack off. I don't think either is strictly better. The second is very similar to an Iroran paladin I saw once BTW, which used TWF instead of flurry.


Chess Pwn wrote:

str based with dragon style, for free and dragon ferocity at character lv5.

Gives you the coolness of fists and the damage of a two-hander.

Except lower damage dice, higher cost to enchant, and lower power attack damage, of course.

Arutema wrote:

In an attempt to re-rail this thread, which do you think is better for a 1-level unchained scaled fist dip on a paladin?

Str based, use a two-handed weapon, take crusader's flurry to flurry with that weapon.

Dex based, use unarmed strikes and an agile AoMF.

Depends on what you want. Two-Handed weapon does significantly more damage (and has really no need for crusader's flurry), but low AC. Unarmed dex build has higher Reflex save, init, and AC, but fairly low damage.

Starknife stuff:
Ascalaphus wrote:

It becomes rather easy to make a 9-level caster that also gets the fighty stuff;

- Sidestep secret revelation: Cha to AC and Reflex
- Noble Scion: Cha to Initiative
- Desna's Shooting Star: Cha to hit and damage
- Oracle: Cha was your casting stat all along

Being able to dump both dexterity and strength and not having any especial need for intelligence, that's rather a lot.

Yeah, that looks impressive... but what is the real gain? You're three feats down, have to use a low damage weapon without reach, and are locked into a mystery with no support for a martial playstyle. You really don't have the feats for thrown, so you have to walk into melee. You have a low damage weapon (can't TWF because of dex prereq), no power attack, and no class features apart from spells to boost your accuracy or damage.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Given the amount of hoops you have to jump through to get dex to hit and damage on a weapon (2-3 feats, some skills, free hands), getting all that for a single feat for Charisma, wasn't likely to make it into PFS.

Why? That is not a logical reasoning but a fallacy of composition ("easy dex-to-damage is too strong, therefore easy stat-to-damage access must always be too strong").

As I said before, Dex to damage is highly sought after because Dex already does so many good things for free*. Sure, with Con it would be OP. With Wis, it would be very strong, probably even for Int. But charisma is everyone's favourite dump stat for a reason.
*) The 'for free' part is importance. Oracles can get many things to Cha, but they have to spend three feats, a mystery without martial support, and two revelations to get it, and still couldn't use for instance a reach weapon.

It's also important that we aren't talking about Cha-to-attack-and-damage with any weapon, but with an exotic light weapon with low damage and mediocre crit stats.

Eldritch Scion Magus can work but Starknife is simply a crap weapon for Magus (and spontaneous casting means wasting another feat for metamagic focus). Bard simply doesn't gain enough from Charisma focus (unless he focuses on casting - in which case starknife is nothing more then a backup weapon and won't do much damage). Swashbuckler still wants Dex for AC and Combat Reflexes, and could pick up dex to damage (with a better weapon and +1 on attack rolls) for the same number of feats. Flying Blade has the problem that throwing weapons still sucks. Paladin can't stack Cha to attack with Smite Evil.


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Incidentally, I happen to have a build around most of this ideas. Everyone here kinda inspired me for this. So...

Half Elf

Alternate Racial Traits: Fey Thoughts (Use Magic Device, Appraise)

Unchained Monk (Sensei, Scaled Fist), Oracle (Seeker), Cavalier (Daring Champion), Battle Herald

Progression: Monk 1, Oracle 1, Cavalier 4, Battle Herald 6

Abilities (20p/buy)

S10 D10 C14 I14 W10 C16+2

1- Advice, Draconic Might, Stunning fist, Unarmed strike, Dragon Style, Noble Scion of War, Skill Focus (Perception)
2- Mystery (Lore), Oracle’s Curse (Legalistic), Tinkering, Orisons, Revelation (Sidestep Secret)
3- Challenge 1/day, Champion's Finesse, Order of the Dragon, Tactician (Outflank), Divine Fighting Technique (Way of the Shooting Star)
4- Aid Allies, +1 Cha
5- Nimble +1, Piranha Strike
6- Challenge 2/day, Panache, Deeds (Dodging Panache, Precise Strike, Swashbuckler Initiative)
7- Inspiring command +1 (Shake It Off), Improved Leadership, Voice of Authority, Lingering Performance
8- Easy march, +1 Cha
9- 2nd inspiring command (Sound the Charge), Deadly Aim
10- Inspiring Command +2, Inspire greatness
11- 3rd inspiring command (Keep Your Heads), Banner, Steadfast Personality
12- Teamwork feat (Swap Places), +1 Cha

Thinks to note:
I'm not quite sure if unchained monk could take the sensei archetype. If not, change with normal monk.
Second, having draconic might let you sustitute Wis for Cha for most of the Monk stuff (mainly for the bonus to AC), but, having also the Revelation Sidestep Secret to change Dex for Cha again, I don't know if there is any FAQ or ruling that disqualifies this possibility because this way you are getting Cha x2 to your AC (although from diferent base stats)

Havind said that, this is a martial build and more or less thematic. His role should be buff, dps, party-face. You can also play Rogue sustitute as a Trap defuser thanks to Tinkering.
By third level you add your Cha to Initiative, AC (x2), Attack and Damage (as long as you use a Star Knife)
At low levels, you are not buffing much with your Sensei's Advice, but this will pay off later when you get to the Battle Herald.
You can actually pack quite some damage: Cha+Piranha Strike+Precise Strike+Advice.
Skill wise he has almost all the skills of the game as class and 6sp/level, not bad.

His first order of business would be to grab wands of mage armor and shield as soon as possible. Later, a Returning Star Knife and Deadly Aim should open range options (not great, but still competent)

With the Herald features and the boost to Inspire Courage you will start to pack some nice bonuses to your allies.

All in all, it may lack magic, but has great AC, great attack, nice buffs and saves, and lots of skills.


Derklord wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

str based with dragon style, for free and dragon ferocity at character lv5.

Gives you the coolness of fists and the damage of a two-hander.

Except lower damage dice, higher cost to enchant, and lower power attack damage, of course.

The damage of a greatsword was never an option and you can eventually get early enough with a monks robe. You can also just hold higher dice weapons until dice catch up.

The power attack thing is more or less yes with it being confirmed as being changed to 1 and half times damage, not just 1 with half added on top.

Natural attack rules state that a creature with one attack treats is as a primary, nothing excludes a humans fist from being considered primary, what held it back was that human fist damage was listed as only as plus strength. By that Dragon style attacks would be getting the extra damage from power attack.

You also have access to style strike and all the other abilities that only trigger with unarmed attacks. Although rare it's handy to always have access to your weapon in those rare moments it may be taken.

Of course asthetic form is better, access to all that, cheaper enchants and much better critical threat range.


Yeah it's true that power attack would be lower, since nothing in dragon style gives increased power attack damage, but it's closer than the Dex build.


Has anyone actually had problems with a scaled fist's will save, i.e. are irrepressible / steadfast personality not enough?

Dark Archive

I imagine that keeping it simple and saving room for Iron Will, and grabbing a trait and a cloak are generally going to be plenty. If you start with a wisdom score of 12-14 that's a +4 or +5 to your will save, potentially at first level, with a minimal investment or setback. Your save will only increase, albeit slowly, with level. Once the obligatory Cloak of Resistance is in place, you should be making your will saves just fine.

Dark Archive

I think that a unchained monk scaled fist 4/sorcerer 1/dragon disciple x could be quite doable.


The Shaman wrote:
Has anyone actually had problems with a scaled fist's will save, i.e. are irrepressible / steadfast personality not enough?

Thing is that CHA is the prime dump stat for a monk and you really need a dump stat due to MADness.

Also Scaled fist trades out still mind, another hit to your will save.

Also there's quite a few things neither irrepressible nor Steadfast Personality apply to.

I think a single classed scaled fist might actually be better of using the core monk.

Dark Archive

Well, for something crazy, lore or nature oracle 1/unchained monk scaled fist 1/paladin 2/draconic bloodrager 4/dragon disciple x. You don't need any weapons for melee and get to add your cha to almost everything including twice for ac. You just need a decent str and con, max out cha, and dump everything else.


Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
Well, for something crazy, lore or nature oracle 1/unchained monk scaled fist 1/paladin 2/draconic bloodrager 4/dragon disciple x. You don't need any weapons for melee and get to add your cha to almost everything including twice for ac. You just need a decent str and con, max out cha, and dump everything else.

What loophole have you found to add Cha to AC twice?


Torbyne wrote:
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
Well, for something crazy, lore or nature oracle 1/unchained monk scaled fist 1/paladin 2/draconic bloodrager 4/dragon disciple x. You don't need any weapons for melee and get to add your cha to almost everything including twice for ac. You just need a decent str and con, max out cha, and dump everything else.
What loophole have you found to add Cha to AC twice?

The Scaled Fist monk adds your charisma to your AC.

The Oracle is is using your charisma modifier instead of your dexterity modifier for your dex bonus to AC. This is a dex bonus to AC but uses your charisma modifier.

It's all legit.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No it isn't. The FAQ on double dipping ability score bonuses is quite clear on that point.

Dark Archive

You guys are missing the beauty of unchained monk (2-handed weapons like the and the Sansetsukon, with full power attack bonuses)and feats that are allowed as bonuses for Scaled Fist: IMO your goal should be Cornugon Smash, Shattered Defenses and Medusa's Wrath. You will see some nice, big 2-handed weapon strikes, plus the ability to hit with a bunch of smaller unarmed strikes.

1) Weapon Focus: Sansetsukon; Power Attack (Human); Dragon Style (Monk)
2) Intimidating Prowess; Evasion
3) Steadfast Personality; Ki Strike: Magic
4) Ki Power; 1d8 US; +1AC
5) Iron Will; Style Strike (Leg Sweep)
6) Dazzling Display; +20'
7) Shatter Defenses; Retrain Iron Will** to Cornugon Smash; Ki Strike: CI/Silver
8) 1d10 US; +2AC
9) Iron Will; +30'; Improved Evasion; Style Strike (Flying Kick)
10) Medusa's Wrath
11) WF: Unarmed Strike
12) 2d6 US; +40'; +3AC


David knott 242 wrote:

No it isn't. The FAQ on double dipping ability score bonuses is quite clear on that point.

I'll need to find clarification on that one as I took one as stat ability and the other was substituting for another ability.


NoTongue wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

No it isn't. The FAQ on double dipping ability score bonuses is quite clear on that point.

I'll need to find clarification on that one as I took one as stat ability and the other was substituting for another ability.

Here's the FAQ.

Unless one of those results in a named bonus type (deflection etc.) you're out of luck.

Dark Archive

Just to see what that pretty basic, straight Scaled Fist build looks like at level 10, with some pretty basic equipment:

Sansetsukon Attack w/ PA @ 10th level (w/ +2 Amulet, +2 Sansetsukon, +4 STR belt):
+10BAB+7STR+1WF+2Magic-3PA= +17/+17/+12 for 1d10+21

Unarmed Strikes w/ PA @ 10th level (w/ +2 Amulet, +2 Sansetsukon, +4 STR belt)
+10BAB+7STR+2Magic-3PA= +16 for 1d10+15

With Medusa's Wrath - which should always work when you have a ful attack, that is:

2 Attacks at +17 for 1d10+20 (Sansetsukon - w/ PA)

PLUS

3 unarmed Attacks:

+16/+16/+11 for 1d10+15

The attack bonus isn't huge, but Shatter Defenses means you are almost always fighting a flat footed opponent - and you have 5 pretty solid attacks per round - 6 if you want to spend a Ki point.


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This won't be Pathfinder society legal but a 3 level dip into Antipaladin Tyrant followed, cornugon smash, intimidate skill unlock feat and prowess from Scaled Fists bonus feats wound be very nasty.

The synergy beyond that of course being Charisma to AC and Saves.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
avr wrote:
You could use a temple sword two-handed and flurry with it without needing to take crusader's flurry. Strength-based is a lower cost as usual.

Worth mentioning that two-handing in a flurry doesn't result in more strength damage (just as an off-hand weapon in a flurry gets full strength damage).


That's only true for chained Monk, unchained Flurry does not have such a restriction. Even the part about off-hand attacks was removed, but that would have been redundant with this FAQ and them no longer referencing TWF anyway.

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