Wanderer / Vagabond Class - Brainstorm


Homebrew and House Rules


Other than Wheel of Time, has anyone come up with a Wanderer class?
I am trying to figure out a class that emulates an itinerant person. A person who travels from place to place, is capable of living off the land between towns and has a varied set of abilities that allows them to make money quickly and easily in towns/cities.

I have skills worked out and I'm basing it off ranger & rogue (medium BAB, Good Fort and Reflex, 6 skill points) Skills: Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Jump, Know (geography), Know (local), Linguistics, Perform, Ride, Sense Motive, Survival, Swim

I don't see them as overly sneaky or acting specifically as hunters (so no stealth or favored enemies). They aren't exclusively acrobats (so no evasion, uncanny dodge, acrobatics). They aren't especially magical or focused on entertainment so bard seems like a hard idea to adapt.

I'm having problems with class abilities (including appropriate armor and weapons.)

- I do like the idea of having a boost to their encumbrance carrying capacity.

- I also like the idea of a begging option (but "gladhanding" is a silly ability)

- ranger's favored terrain is an idea as well.

Their role is a broad knowledge of regional locations, customs, rumors and lore which is definitely in line with a bard ability.


JosMartigan wrote:

Other than Wheel of Time, has anyone come up with a Wanderer class?

I am trying to figure out a class that emulates an itinerant person. A person who travels from place to place, is capable of living off the land between towns and has a varied set of abilities that allows them to make money quickly and easily in towns/cities.

I have skills worked out and I'm basing it off ranger & rogue (medium BAB, Good Fort and Reflex, 6 skill points) Skills: Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Jump, Know (geography), Know (local), Linguistics, Perform, Ride, Sense Motive, Survival, Swim

I don't see them as overly sneaky or acting specifically as hunters (so no stealth or favored enemies). They aren't exclusively acrobats (so no evasion, uncanny dodge, acrobatics). They aren't especially magical or focused on entertainment so bard seems like a hard idea to adapt.

The actual answer to your question (for me) is "no, I haven't." However, I love the concept. So it's tugging at my brain, and I want to leap in with ideas.

Itinerant

How I see the class:
Itinerants are happy-go-lucky hoboes who seem to always come up on top no matter how badly the odds look stacked against them. They have the skill to get a job done, and wander from town to town looking for work -- and adventure.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.

Looking closer at class skills:
>> Appraise & Use Magic Device would be helpful, and are rogue skills.
>> Bluff is your begging skill, and is also a rogue skill.
>> Heal, Knowledge (nature), & Perception would all likely be helpful, and are on the ranger list.
>> As you'll see, I'm looking at the class as a 2/3 spontaneous spellcaster, so Spellcraft from the ranger list is necessary for me.
>> Intimidate & Stealth would likely prove helpful, and are actually high priority, since both are in common on the ranger's & rogue's list. Look, anyone who travels outside of "civilized" areas might need stealth to hide from the nasties, or want to intimidate nasties to get left alone, even if they're not trying to be nasty themselves.
>> Knowledge (engineering) might well be helpful for repairing things, depending on what tech is around, but it isn't on either the rogue or ranger list --
however, both get Knowledge (dungeoneering), so IMO dungeoneering or engineering should be on this list.
>> Profession is necessary, and everyone but Barbarian has it.

>> OTOH, why is Jump on your list? Is that a refugee, or are you not playing Pathfinder?
>> Why is Perform on your list? It's unusual, and your description says the class is not focused on entertainment.

This means that I'm using all of the Ranger's class skills, and augmenting them with the rogue's except for the following class skills:
Acrobatics (Dex), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Perform (Cha), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha).
And I ended up including 21 total skills, just like the rogue has.


The itinerant's class skills are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering or engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.
At least, I'm hoping I can justify this. The heart of the class is half in skills, IMO. However... Let's move on.

The chart will indeed reflect a medium BAB, and good Fort & Ref saves.

I think we can start with the rogue's weapon & armor proficiencies, and bump them a tad in respect for the ranger. It's true that historical itinerants had NPC-class proficiencies, but if we wanted an NPC class, we could have picked Expert and been done with it!

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Itinerants are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, except for two-handed martial weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

And now we get to the meat of your actual question: Class Features. I started in on it, actually, and then deleted everything. I want to ask you before I go too far whether I'm haring off in a completely different direction than you were thinking.

Class features I want to give the Itinerant:
>> the ranger's class feature list -- except for any favored enemies or favored terrains past the first;
>> in exchange, features borrowed from the halfling adaptable luck traits & feats;
>> something like bardic knowledge, but for Crafts: "Itinerants add half their class level (minimum 1) on all Craft skill checks, and always have the basic tools to perform a Craft;"
>> the hunter's spontaneous, Wisdom-based, 2/3 spell-casting drawn from a specific list to be based on the ranger list, but augmented from the druid list. (I want spells like Mending & Lesser Restoration.)

~~~
So, JosMartigan, what do you think?

And anyone else, am I asking for too much?
Too little for what is in fact a PC class?


I'm liking your thoughts overall, thank you for looking at my post.

SKILLS
You made a great case for bluff; heal; intimidate; perception; and stealth. I was basing my skill points on average number of skills of the established classes and the points given.
In this case, adding 5 more skills does make a compelling argument for 8 skill points.

(I'm using a modified skill list, I don't see Jump as Dex-based, so I pulled in out of Acrobatics.)

WEAPON & ARMOR
I see light armor, no shields as acceptable. For weapons I was thinking more rogue: a limited list that doesn't require a lot of specialized combat training (club; dagger; hand axe; light mace; quarterstaff; sickle; sling; short bow, short spear & spear [the last 3 being used for finding food]
(My setting doesn't include crossbows, guns, and eastern-inspired weapons but they are good options for a pure Pathfinder setting)

CLASS ABILITIES
I'm on the fence with some of the ranger's abilities. They're very hunter-based (tracking, hunter's bond, wild empathy, swift tracker etc.) or combat oriented (combat-styles)

One or more favored terrains, woodland stride, and camouflage do make sense.

Luck is a cool concept but I'm not sure my version is a happy go lucky, falls into good situations type. (for your version, its a good fit.)

I have an idea for a version of bardic knowledge (3.5 version) called Lore of the Road. It provide bits of info picked up about noteworthy people, places, relics, organizations, etc.

A craft-based bonus is a good idea. A bonus to craft, being able to scavenge tools needed are both good solid things for that.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

You don't need a class for this. Classes are difficult to design and have a ton of design overhead that requires strong, solid game mechanics to carry a character for 20 levels. At the very least, consider making it an archetype.

Maybe use a vigilante? Maybe add a few social talents related to living off the streets?


Cyrad wrote:

You don't need a class for this. Classes are difficult to design and have a ton of design overhead that requires strong, solid game mechanics to carry a character for 20 levels. At the very least, consider making it an archetype.

Maybe use a vigilante? Maybe add a few social talents related to living off the streets?

I appreciate the input. How do I deal with the alternate persona concept of the vigilante?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Your social identity can be a hobo or a beggar that wanders the streets of cities while your vigilante identity can be "the wanderer," the adventurer that goes from city to city.


Since you're talking about ranger and rogue, why not work out an archetype of the hybrid class Slayer, swapping out the more assassin-like abilities for more survival-y ones?


Have you considered prestigeing into Horizon Walker?


Here is my wanderer-type archetype for the rogue.

Traveler (rogue)
Skills: A travelers adds Knowledge (geography), Ride, and Survival to his list of class skills, and removes Knowledge (dungeoneering) and profession from his list of class skills.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A traveler is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand axe, light hammer, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Traveler (Ex): A traveler adds 1/2 his level to Diplomacy skill checks made to gather information and to Survival skill checks made to survive in the wilderness (minimum +1). Additionally, once per day when making a Diplomacy or Survival skill check, he can roll twice and use the more favorable result.

This ability replaces trapfinding.

Traveller's Terrain (Ex): At 2nd level, a traveler selects a type of terrain from ranger's list of favored terrains. The traveler gains a +2 bonus on initiative, Perception, Stealth, and Survival checks when he is in this terrain, and on Knowledge (geography) checks pertaining to that terrain. He also gains the benefit of the Endurance feat while in his favored terrains.

At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, the traveler selects an additional favored terrain. In addition, at each such interval, the skill bonus and initiative bonus in any one favored terrain (including the one just selected, if so desired), increases by +2.

If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the traveler's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. For the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, this class feature counts as Favored Terrain.

This replaces the rogue talents a traveler would receive at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels.

Rolling Stone (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, once per day a traveler can use the Withdraw action as a move action, except he moves his speed instead of double his speed. At 7th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use this ability one additional time per day.

This replaces trap sense or danger sense.


Cyrad wrote:
Your social identity can be a hobo or a beggar that wanders the streets of cities while your vigilante identity can be "the wanderer," the adventurer that goes from city to city.

Very creative, thank you for the idea.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:

Here is my wanderer-type archetype for the rogue.

Traveler (rogue)
Skills: A travelers adds Knowledge (geography), Ride, and Survival to his list of class skills, and removes Knowledge (dungeoneering) and profession from his list of class skills.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A traveler is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand axe, light hammer, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Traveler (Ex): A traveler adds 1/2 his level to Diplomacy skill checks made to gather information and to Survival skill checks made to survive in the wilderness (minimum +1). Additionally, once per day when making a Diplomacy or Survival skill check, he can roll twice and use the more favorable result.

This ability replaces trapfinding.

Traveller's Terrain (Ex): At 2nd level, a traveler selects a type of terrain from ranger's list of favored terrains. The traveler gains a +2 bonus on initiative, Perception, Stealth, and Survival checks when he is in this terrain, and on Knowledge (geography) checks pertaining to that terrain. He also gains the benefit of the Endurance feat while in his favored terrains.

At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, the traveler selects an additional favored terrain. In addition, at each such interval, the skill bonus and initiative bonus in any one favored terrain (including the one just selected, if so desired), increases by +2.

If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the traveler's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. For the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, this class feature counts as Favored Terrain.

This replaces the rogue talents a traveler would receive at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels.

Rolling Stone (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, once per day a traveler can use the Withdraw action as a move action, except he moves his speed instead of double his speed. At 7th...

Thank you Ciaran. I like your archetype a lot.

Dark Archive

I do not take credit for this archetype, but I did consider it very interesting when I found it a couple of years back.
--------------------------

Vagabond (Bard)
Vagabonds are eternal wanderers—never able to stay in any one place for long. They give up some of their musical versatility to improve their ability to travel and avoid danger on the road.

Class Features Modifications
Class Skills: Remove Climb from the vagabond’s list of class skills and add Disable Device.

World Traveler (Ex): A vagabond gains a bonus equal to half his bard level on Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nature), and Linguistics checks. He can reroll a check against one of these skills, but must take the result of the second roll even if it is worse. He can reroll one additional time per day at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
This ability replaces bardic knowledge.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level, a vagabond’s land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor or light armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the vagabond’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the bard's land speed.
This ability replaces well versed.

Roguishness (Ex): At 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter until 18th level, the vagabond gains a rogue-like talent.
The abilities that follow replace versatile performance.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a vagabond can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the vagabond is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless vagabond does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 6th level, a vagabond can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A vagabond with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her. If a vagabond already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a vagabond may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect her.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A vagabond of 14th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has vagabond levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 18th level and higher, the vagabond is better at avoiding magical and unusual attacks. This ability works like evasion, except that while the vagabond still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless vagabond does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.


JosMartigan wrote:

Other than Wheel of Time, has anyone come up with a Wanderer class?

I am trying to figure out a class that emulates an itinerant person. A person who travels from place to place, is capable of living off the land between towns and has a varied set of abilities that allows them to make money quickly and easily in towns/cities.

That is a *profoundly* low level concept. I would suggest capping the class at level 6 and having "must be a good entrant to Horizon Walker and Spherewalker" as design goals.


Jos, you've gotten some really good ideas, I see. Good luck! I fear my own efforts have run off in an utterly different direction.

I do have some questions for the rest of you:

I could do what I want as sort of an archetype of the hunter. (Especially since I want to lift the hunter's spellcasting, although I'm content with just the druidic spell-list.) The problem is that I'd have to add a lot of class skills, and worse -- completely strip out the hunter's main focus: their animal companion. I'm assuming that that sort of surgery is too radical for an archetype, but am I wrong?

Similarly, if I did an archetype of the investigator, I'd have to replace the focus on traps with one on healing (doable). And admittedly, as I've been sketching out ideas, a focus on a dual role of healer/poisoner has been emerging (how historical!), and poisons are certainly a key element in the alchemist. However, I personally dislike what Paizo did with the alchemist, and besides, the class doesn't have the right spell list for what I'm picturing. The druid list is what I want. And again, I'm assuming that ripping out alchemist-style magic in favor of the hunter's (and potions) is far too radical a surgery for an archetype.

<giggle> I could bill the Itinerant as a hybrid of the Investigator & the Hunter!

Starting over with a new base class, a hybrid of rogue & druid, seems like my best option. Ignoring all the trivia, I've sketched out...

Itinerant Class Features
>> Druidic magic, converted to the hunter's version (but druid spells only)
>> 1 Domain -- Artifice, Community, Healing, Liberation, Luck, Protection, & Travel all look appropriate
>> 8-10 Luck abilities or talents -- pool of luck pts??
>> Itinerant's Crafting*
>> Brew Potion as a bonus feat
>> Poison Lore & increasing Poison Resistance (like the investigator's)
>> Swift (improving later to immediate) actions to down potions & apply poisons
>> Batch crafting for potions & poisons; batch size increasing over time
>> Increasing efficacy (bonuses) for potions & poisons -- w/out affecting cost
>> 4th-level spells in potion form (it would be wonderful, but I'm sure OP)

* Itinerant's Crafting: Itinerants add half their class level (minimum 1) on all Craft skill checks, and always have the basic tools to perform a Craft.

With the luck abilities undefined, I realize that it's hard to answer this, but I'm curious whether you all think there's enough meat for a base class here -- or whether there's too big a banquet on this table!

PS: I might need a new class name...


JonathonWilder wrote:

I do not take credit for this archetype, but I did consider it very interesting when I found it a couple of years back.

--------------------------

Vagabond (Bard)
Vagabonds are eternal wanderers—never able to stay in any one place for long. They give up some of their musical versatility to improve their ability to travel and avoid danger on the road.

Class Features Modifications
Class Skills: Remove Climb from the vagabond’s list of class skills and add Disable Device.

World Traveler (Ex): A vagabond gains a bonus equal to half his bard level on Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nature), and Linguistics checks. He can reroll a check against one of these skills, but must take the result of the second roll even if it is worse. He can reroll one additional time per day at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
This ability replaces bardic knowledge.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level, a vagabond’s land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor or light armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the vagabond’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the bard's land speed.
This ability replaces well versed.

Roguishness (Ex): At 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter until 18th level, the vagabond gains a rogue-like talent.
The abilities that follow replace versatile performance.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a vagabond can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the vagabond is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless vagabond does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 6th level, a vagabond can react to danger before her...

Thank you for the ideas. Good find!


bitter lily wrote:

Jos, you've gotten some really good ideas, I see. Good luck! I fear my own efforts have run off in an utterly different direction.

I do have some questions for the rest of you:

I could do what I want as sort of an archetype of the hunter. (Especially since I want to lift the hunter's spellcasting, although I'm content with just the druidic spell-list.) The problem is that I'd have to add a lot of class skills, and worse -- completely strip out the hunter's main focus: their animal companion. I'm assuming that that sort of surgery is too radical for an archetype, but am I wrong?

Similarly, if I did an archetype of the investigator, I'd have to replace the focus on traps with one on healing (doable). And admittedly, as I've been sketching out ideas, a focus on a dual role of healer/poisoner has been emerging (how historical!), and poisons are certainly a key element in the alchemist. However, I personally dislike what Paizo did with the alchemist, and besides, the class doesn't have the right spell list for what I'm picturing. The druid list is what I want. And again, I'm assuming that ripping out alchemist-style magic in favor of the hunter's (and potions) is far too radical a surgery for an archetype.

<giggle> I could bill the Itinerant as a hybrid of the Investigator & the Hunter!

Starting over with a new base class, a hybrid of rogue & druid, seems like my best option. Ignoring all the trivia, I've sketched out...

Itinerant Class Features
>> Druidic magic, converted to the hunter's version (but druid spells only)
>> 1 Domain -- Artifice, Community, Healing, Liberation, Luck, Protection, & Travel all look appropriate
>> 8-10 Luck abilities or talents -- pool of luck pts??
>> Itinerant's Crafting*
>> Brew Potion as a bonus feat
>> Poison Lore & increasing Poison Resistance (like the investigator's)
>> Swift (improving later to immediate) actions to down potions & apply poisons
>> Batch crafting for potions & poisons; batch size increasing over time
>> Increasing efficacy...

I'm glad to have helped inspire you, regardless of the direction your ideas go. If there's any other way I can help out, please let me know.


I don't see why this isn't covered with existing material, such as Ranger, Rogue, and Bard with the right skill choices, Druid as well.


I agree that it could be done with existing material, but the answer is that some people like to homebrew for the sake of homebrew.


The Answer: I want to develop my own classes. Most being a throwback to 3.0 or 3.5 D&D, or even taking cues from 1st & 2nd Edition D&D. I find PF classes to be overstuffed with abilities & OP. I wanted something basic, simple, & fitting for my setting which is inspired by Saxon folklore and dark ages Europe with a dash of fairy tale (enchanted forests, castles crafted of round river stones, etc). The people are rustic sorts. Crossbows, guns, eastern flavored anything, & more "renaissance style" classes are not fitting for the setting.

Alchemists, Cavaliers, Inquisitors, Investigators, Magus, Monks, Ninja, Samurai, Swashbucklers, Vigilantes, Warpriests are not conceptually fitting (and I haven't heard of any re-flavoring that satisfies me)

Bards, Skalds, Oracles, Druids, Rogues all have a place but I haven't figured out how to apply the concepts to my liking yet.

Barbarians/Bloodragers, while they may have an argument for fitting into the setting, are too rage-happy for my liking.

Class list as it is so far includes:

Healer (yes a healer, not a faith-based class)

Hunter (not PF's hunter - no spells, no animal companion, no ranger combat styles)

Magician (not a big boom caster, or flashy melee/magic combo class, much simpler)

Veteran (i.e. gritty, simplified warrior type, maybe using ranger combat styles instead of fighter feats)

Wanderer

Ideas I'm still working out:

Scoundrel (here's where the luck/trickster concepts come in)

Faith-based caster (haven't worked out divinity in the setting yet so this is undefined - Oracle is the closest inspiration so far)

My ideas are to back up a lot & stop trying to emulate video game classes & anime characters. I'm trying to bring an old(er) school paradigm to PF rules & cut away some of the more complicated (what I see as exploitable) aspects of the game.

So yes, I'm trying to reinvent the wheel. Yes, at least 4 or 5 forum-goers on here would advise not to do that. But I like the idea & challenge. I think it can be done satisfactorily without inventing entirely new mechanics.

My wanderer class may not be on par with other PF classes but it will be balanced to my other class concepts.

I hope the posts I create towards this purpose help others out with their own inspirations, even if it's just things they want to avoid. If others get anything out of the discussion, I feel good about it.

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