Unarmed Striker Build?


Advice


I'm looking to build a character for an upcoming game, who is going to be an Android (from the Inner Sea Bestiary). The kind of fluff I'm going with was that they were going to be focused on doing Unarmed Strikes, and eventually get something like the Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes, and/or the Amulet of Mighty Fights, in the long run to be able to deal elemental damage. Point of that being that it's supposed to essentially work that her circuitry channels that energy into her hits. If there's another way to this, I'm open to it. I was thinking about having her wear heavy armor, but this isn't completely necessary; but its the reasoning for the fighter dip (as well as the bonus feat). I'm personally adverse to using the monk, as I'm just not a fan of the class.

Usually, we have a couple other players (tend to have about 6 players in each campaign, don't know for sure yet how many are going to be in this one). For stats, we did the method of rolling 4 dice, taking the highest 3, 6 times; so no point buy system.

This is just a rough build I came up with while at work. I'm not looking for completely min-maxed, but looking for something that'll be viable, and fit the flavor of the character I'm making. So, what I have so far:

Str: 18
Dex: 17 (15 + 2 from Android)
Con: 18
Int: 14 (12 + 2 from Android)
Wis: 17
Cha: 11 (12 - 2 from Android)

Reasoning behind stat placement: Str I figured was going to be main focus for being able to do the most damage with multiple hits. Dex in case any feats I decide to take have it as a prerequisite, and to help with AC until I get heavy armor if I decide to go that route. Con for hp. Wis was for some of the style feats if I take them, and to help with the poor Will save. Cha and Int were dump stats.

Level 1: Brawler (Snakebite Striker)

  • Improved Unarmed Strike
  • Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Level 2: Brawler
  • Not sure, was thinking Dodge?
Level 3: Fighter
  • Normal: Unsure?
  • Bonus: Boar Style
Level 4: Brawler
  • +1 to Strength
Level 5: Brawler
  • Weapon Specialization
Level 6: Brawler
  • Dragon Style
Level 7: Brawler

Level 8: Brawler

  • +1 to Strength
Level 9: Brawler
  • Normal: Stunning Fist
  • Bonus: Dragon Ferocity (Is this actually okay, can't remember off the top of my head)

Was originally going to stay with Brawler through the rest of the levels. But I am open to suggestions to fit the end goal of the character (Punches dealing elemental damage of some sort). To me, getting that image for the character while not being completely useless in combat is the most important part. I'd thought of doing Magus or something to deal spell damage through Unarmed Strike, but I thought that would be too feat starved to do it effectively, but if there's a way to do that (either with the Magus or another class) I'm down for it. We're starting at level 1, so really, everything from this can be changed. My original thought behind this was that the increasing Sneak Attack Damage, Dragon Style more Strength to attacks, scaling Unarmed Strike damage, and damage from the Bodywrap/Amulet later on would make the character rather effective. Only things really set are the race, and what the end goal is. :)

But, I wanted to post here before planning on just doing all Brawler because I'm sure many of you have good suggestions as to Feats, possibly better class choices, items, etc.

Most official Paizo books are open, although anything not "Core" (So Campaign setting books, and their associated books like the Inner Sea collection) are subject to DM approval. The DM is usually pretty open as long as its not something stupidly overpowered. 3PP are typically forbidden.

Thanks in advance for any help and suggestions.


I will note that pummeling style or outslug style are two other highly recommended styles.

Pummeling style is basically unarmed pounce and cluster shot combined. It is a style made to solve many of the complaints about unarmed strikes: full attack dependant which is a problem when you need to mvoe and DR hits their 'many smaller hits' style hard. The first feat is cluster shot basically (ie: your full attack counts as one hit; so DR only applies once, instead of every hit). The later feat is basically straight pounce: you can charge while doing the pummeling full attack.

Outslug is an acceptible alternative to pummeling style's pounce. It is built to assist lunge (5' of reach for attacks during your turn; normally requires a 2 AC penalty, but this style removes that) and it turns your 5' step into a 10' step. Combined, this lets you full attack things that are 20' away, which is a close second to pounce. Effective in areas without charge lanes, and it is fantastic against giants and other reach users, since it plays with 5' step rules (so no AoOs while moving). That also means you will be able to get into flanking position like no one's business, which is nice since you have sneak attack.

Overall, dragon style is nice for extra damage, but these two styles are effective in enabling damage through more full attacks.


Could put Pummeling Style in as the 7th level fat, and go between that and Dragon Style depending on whether or not I to deal with the DR or not?

Also this reminded me that I was going to put in the base attack bonus, stats, and damage per attack in there at the end. Will have to do that when I get home and can look everything up again.


I can't figure out how to edit the original post (or even if I can yet), but if I calculate this right the characters stats at 9th level would be:

BAB +9/+4
To hit: +15/+10
Flurry: +13/+13/+13/+8
Damage: 1d10 + 7
Damage (Flanking): 1d10 + 2d6 + 7
Damage (Flanking + Dragon Style): 1d10 + 2d6 + 9
Damage (Flanking + Dragon Ferocity): 1d10 + 2d6 + 12

And if I read Brawler Fury properly, that's for all 4 attacks. Although, with Ferocity, every attack after the first may only be at +9 rather than +12.

Saves would be:
Fort: 12
Refl: 9
Will: 5

Is all of that correct? And does that damage seem to at least be average for level 9? Adding in Pummeling Style does offer some versatility as well, so that would probably be the 7th level feat.


Seems pretty much right to me. Your Cha should be 10 thought, not 11 (assuming you rolled 12 and you're accounting for the Android's -2). I'd suggest Power Attack for one of those unclaimed feat slots and Improved Feint so you can basically attempt a "free" feint every turn, and Greater Feint to make successful feints last until your next turn. Also note that Boar Style really isn't helping you at all, since you're not allowed to use it with Dragon Style (unless you're planning to retrain the feat later when you have Dragon Style or you plan to use the two styles intermittently). If your GM will allow it, you might be able to pick up Two-Weapon Feint instead of Power Attack, which will allow you to forgo the first attack in your flurry to feint (though this is highly dependent on if the GM counts you as possessing 2WF for the purpose of taking feats). Assuming they do, you'd want it instead of Power Attack, probably (taking Power Attack later, taking/retraining it in place of Boar Style, or else just waiting for 11th to get things off the ground). You may also want to invest in ways to get haste on yourself (potions/oils of haste or having an allied caster using it on you) to nab an extra attack per round. Doing all this, your attack is going to look something like the following:

(feint) + (1d10+2Str+8+2d6) + (1d10+1.5Str+8+2d6)*3

This accounts for an additional attack from haste and the bonuses to damage from Weapon Specialization and Power Attack. Assuming your Str mod is 5 (meaning you haven't found any way to enhance your Str through magic or items, which I don't think is likely), this means you're doing 21-40 (avg 30.5) on that first hit and 18-37 (avg 26.5) on the three subsequent hits, totaling 75-151 (avg 110) before accounting for DR. If you don't need to feint (for example if you're flanking the enemy), you can add one more hit to that, giving you a total of 93-188 (avg 136.5).

That said, if you don't care much about ensuring you have the opportunity to feint if you're unable to flank, you won't need the feint feats, so you could just nab Power Attack and whatever other feats might help you out.


I'd probably forego the Feint feats as there's usually more than 1 melee person in the group (we tend to run into the issue of too many being melee, but this one is a smaller group than some of the other games ran). I'll add Power Attack in there for utility, which is the primary reason I picked up Boar Style, in case something has DR/slashing. I'm not exactly sure as to what the wealth of the game is going to be, as the DM tends mix it up quite a bit, but I was figuring most of it would be sunk into the Amulet or Bodywraps. Will definitely get something for Haste if there isn't a reliable method for it otherwise (i.e. a caster for it).

Now, the only question I have, as I tend not to play with many min-maxers (there's only one, and he's not in the campaign), is this damage on the high end, low end, or middle of the pack for typical damage at 9th level? Most of the people are competent with building characters, but they usually pick things that fit the flavor of the character, or the events that have gone on. So I typically expect them to be about average for damage output generally, and I don't want to have a character that just outclasses them completely. Which one of the reasons I kind of like the build thus far is a lot of the stuff can not be done (i.e. not using one of the Styles, not using Power Attack) to temper it. So if the damage it deals at full strength is on the high end, I know to pull back a little bit so its more average; however if the damage is average, and he's still beating out other people that tells me there something else going on with how they're building their characters.


Bloodrager (elemental-air) would give you 3 rounds of shocking at level 1.
If cestus or other fisty weapons are close enough to unarmed for you it would be easier, or you could use the bloody-knuckled rowdy or blood conduit archetype to get IUS.

Kineticist k-fist archetype is pretty weak, but you'll be able to punch with your element all day from 1..

Scarab Sages

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With those stats, play a warrior/adept. You'll be about on par for a pc class with normal scores.


I haven't looked too much into the Bloodrager due to it being based on the Barbarian class, and Android can't receive morale bonuses, so I skipped over it since normal barbarians are pretty much useless if their androids. I'll check out the kineticist when I get home to see if that suits the flavor I'm going for.

And yeah, I got crazy lucky with my stat rolls this time around, typically I tend to have a highest stat at 15 with the rest between 11 and 13. I kind of want to propose a stat buy system so most people are on even ground from the start, but they've always gone the roll for stats method, partially I'm assuming because it allows for more variety and versatility for an individual character, easily allowing people to play a MAD character if their rolls support it, but that's a completely different topic. So I'm guessing that just by the starting stats alone, without some horrible butchery of the playstyle, the sample build will probably be above average in damage, compared to those with average starting rolls?


If you're focused on unarmed style fight ing, there is something to be said about MoMS. Basically get a wild card atyle feat you can change whenever you enter a stance. You'll need twf to replace flurry, but its worth imo if you wanna run multiple styles.

Also, what archetypes had you in mind? Four Elements Monk might with, replacing Stunning Fist for Elemental Fist.

I personally like my unarmed sap master puncher, but this one looks interesting.


I prefer to stick with using Flurry for the build, as it fits the concept for the character better. The style feats have honestly just been a side effect of not being able to find any combat feats that fit the character concept, and they enhance the unarmed strikes. I'm honestly not too worried about running multiples at a time, but whatever is needed for the situation; the sole reason the picking up Boar Style and Pummeling Style is to get around DR/slashing, and DR/-. I view the character as someone who is going to adjust their fighting style on the fly, not one that's focused on mastering multiple styles at once. That being said, I'll look over the MoMs archetype, as I don't want to completely rule anything out, even with my aversion to the base class as a whole. Do monk levels count as brawler levels for figuring unarmed strike damage? Reason I ask is because after looking at what I've chosen, it (obviously) makes it better off for me to just keep taking brawler levels, as been level 11 I'll have the Elemental Fist feat and should have the Bodywraps/Amulet to add more damage or other elemental damage to the attacks, which is the main goal


Daaze wrote:
I haven't looked too much into the Bloodrager due to it being based on the Barbarian class, and Android can't receive morale bonuses, so I skipped over it since normal barbarians are pretty much useless if their androids. I'll check out the kineticist when I get home to see if that suits the flavor I'm going for.

Yeah, realized that later, sorry. There is a 3p Android race option you can see on their pfd20srd page that can get you morale back..

Pretty certain monk/brawler unarmed don't stack.

The Exchange

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an amulet of mighty fists:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amule t-of-mighty-fists

can allow you to do elemental damage with unarmed strikes, for 16000 gp you can get a +1 flaming amulet of mighty fists, for 36000 gp you can get a +1 flaming burst amulet, (you can forgo the enhancement bonus, but i would not recommend it.)

Bleeding attack:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/belier-s-bite-combat

might be a good choice for your second level feat, if you use brawlers flurry against 4 different targets, (let's assume you hit 2 of them) then thats 1d4 damage per round to each of them, and the more you hit, the more you have bleeding.

i can say from personal experience that bleed damage is an absolute B%&@! to deal with, i nearly lost a PFS character to bleed damage from a swarm of animated books.
"For the love of all that is holy, heal me! i don't want it to say 'death by papercuts' on my tombstone!"
-markus dewitt

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