Fencing grace

[Kastigan]

Why, oh why, is sword cane not elligible for use with Fencing Grace? Isn't it just a shorter blade as compared to the rapier?

[Java Man]

I just houserule slashing grace to apply to any one handed or light weapon and call it a day.

[master_marshmallow]

Deadly Agility solves your problems.

[Milo v3]

Kastigan wrote:

Why, oh why, is sword cane not elligible for use with Fencing Grace? Isn't it just a shorter blade as compared to the rapier?

Because they forgot swordcanes existed when writing it. Note: The reason fencing grace exists is because they forgot rapiers existed while writing slashing grace.

[Avenger]

master_marshmallow wrote:

Deadly Agility solves your problems.

Not in PFS, unfortunately.

Slashing Grace have been errata'd once, I guess Fencing was just forgotten (it specifies 'Weapon Focus: Rapier' compared to 'any'). Unless it's a deliberate twist, FAQ candidate?

[Melkiador]

Milo v3 wrote:

Kastigan wrote:

Why, oh why, is sword cane not elligible for use with Fencing Grace? Isn't it just a shorter blade as compared to the rapier?

Because they forgot swordcanes existed when writing it. Note: The reason fencing grace exists is because they forgot rapiers existed while writing slashing grace.

Slashing grace didn't originally have dex to damage. It was just to allow swashbucklers to use slashing weapons. But at the last second, someone added the dex to damage, because the feat was otherwise weak. The repercussions of that decision is that fencing grace was rushed out so that all swashbucklers wouldn't feel obligated to use slashing weapons.

This whole mess was around the printing of the ACG release. It was a low point in an otherwise pretty solid product line. I can't remember the details, but I think they were between some key staff when it all happened.

[Fellfire]

I wish someone could tell me why they have been tip-toeing around dex-to-dmg for so long. As if the feat tax wasn't harsh enough.

[Melkiador]

I believe the lead designers don't like dex to damage because it seems unrealistic. Also dexterity already does too many things compared to most stats.

[Fellfire]

Realism? That is where the line gets drawn? Really?

Sorry, didn't catch your edit in time. I get that dex is already important and turning str into a dump stat isn't a good idea, but even with a dex-build, it isn't. Not really.

[Rub-Eta]

Fellfire wrote:

I wish someone could tell me why they have been tip-toeing around dex-to-dmg for so long. As if the feat tax wasn't harsh enough.

I feel like the feat tax is necessary. The 3 spare feats are what makes Strength still viable.

In an "ideal" system, I think, both Str and Dex should affect attack and damage rolls. But I don't see an easy way to apply this to Pathfinder without potential problems.

[Torbyne]

The thing is, STR doesnt ever become a dump stat, no matter what you are doing with your DEX. I mean, if you like to put giant, glaring weaknesses on your front liner than sure, you can dump STR. But then, BAM!, you find a GM who actually uses the rules and you 7 STR means you are at a medium enumbrance so your speed and DEX are capped anyways. and then you take a STR penalty from poison or undead or spells or any such thing and you are out of the fight in the surprise round. At best STR is not invested in. even then, i think one would still go to at least 13 in STR for Power Attack in many cases... just as STR builds have some incentive to put at least a little in DEX.

As to some kind of ideal system where you use both DEX and STR in your attacks... i would love me some feat like that. i know vigilantes have a talent for it and i really, really, wish they had made it a feat for all classes instead. maybe someday though.

[Melkiador]

I just wish they'd share the love. I'd like a shield feat that lets you use your strength for AC and reflex.

[Derklord]

It would probably only work when not using a weapon or making a natural or unarmed attack.

[pauljathome]

Torbyne wrote:

The thing is, STR doesnt ever become a dump stat, no matter what you are doing with your DEX.

I'll start by pointing out that I think Dex to Damage is quite fine and NOT overpowered in general.

But one can very definitely create a viable dex based front liner with dumped Str.

I have several. I use Hero Lab which tracks encumbrance for me and I most definitely DO track encumbrance closely. A handy haversack becomes almost essential for such a build and sometimes one has to not have something one wishes or pay more but it works.

Str damage is a major threat but it isn't THAT common. And a dex character will have a very high incorporeal touch armour class and that goes a LONG way to mitigate against it.

The biggest flaw is probably CMD. But almost all characters have a CMD that is too low once you get to the middish levels (9ish) or so as the monsters will just overpower you unless you're a maneuver specialist.

If you can get the swashbuckler parry that goes a long way to defend yourself against CMB attacks.