Ectoplasmic metamagic feat use


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

This came up in our session and in some sense it points to a larger question for me regarding metamagic feats interaction with mostly conjuration spells.

We wanted to cast ectoplasmic black tentacles to grapple a ghost.
Ultimately what was proposed was shot down for a different reason - incorporeal creates can't be grappled but lets say for the sake of argument that we decide that two incorporeal creatures can grapple one another. Can the tentacles interact with a ghost? Does a ectoplasmic stone wall block ghosts? Does ectoplasmic fabricate create ghost touch materials?

Of course this makes me wonder about other metamagic feats with conjuration/transmutation spells. Does a dazing black tentacles cause dazing. Does a dazing ghost wolf attack get the dazing ability?


Yes to all of your questions, and very creative regarding ghost touch fabrication.

The language does state that an incorporeal creature can’t be grappled but I disagree. A corporeal creature cannot interact physically with an incorporeal creature. But an incorporeal creature should be able to interact with an incorporeal creature. Do the rules as they are written refute this? Yes. Was it intended to apply towards an incorporeal creature? No. One of many examples in which the rules don’t touch on every issue and require a common sense logical approach. I’m surprised this was disallowed.

The description of ectoplasmic spell states that an ectoplasmic spell has full effect against incorporeal or ethereal creatures. That’s pretty black and white to me. If Black tentacles grapple, and ectoplasmic spell states that it has full effects against incorporeal creatures then it should grapple a ghost. A ghost does have a CMD after all. And for +3 spell levels cost I do not see the ability to grapple a ghost unbalancing.


Quote:


Ultimately what was proposed was shot down for a different reason - incorporeal creates can't be grappled

The ectoplasmic spell metamagic feat makes a spell that would not otherwise effect a incorporeal creature have full effect.

Which means their immunities from being incorporeal do not apply. They can be grappled by things that affect incorporeal creatures.

Ghost touch nets work 100% against incorporeal creatures, as do mancatchers, etc.

The tentacles from a incorporeal black tentacles would have 100% affect against an incorporeal creatures.

Ectoplasmic wall of stone is impenetrable to incorporeal creatures.

There is some dispute with fabricate, however. Fabricate doesn't actually create things, so could not infuse a product with ghost touch ability.

An ectoplasmic spell that actually creates permanent base components (steel for a sword, etc) is what you are looking for to create the base components to be used in a fabricate.

Grand Lodge

Ectoplasmic mending ftw! (Not really but still!)

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