Yanndu |
Yanndu wrote:Vidmaster7 wrote:Remember that Namor and his folks are in the MCU...
Right? OMG LOOK AT ALL THE WATER!!! 5 years later.
Where have you been we thought you were dead?
uhh I went for a swim?so 10 years?
Isn't Namor technically in legal limbo?
His underwater realm is listed on Sam Jackson/Nick Fury's computer screen in one of the Avengers movies...
JoelF847 RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was very unimpressed. I didn't have any expectations about the characters, as I was only marginally aware of them in comics, so any changes didn't impact me at all.
However, as others have said, the acting was universally poor, with only Maximus showing anything close to being like a real person.
I could live with the poor effects, knowing it was a TV budget, but for a top tier property like a Marvel show, they should have been better. They weren't as good as Agents of Shield, the Netflix shows, the CW Arrowverse shows, or others. Lockjaw was great, but it looked like they blew their budget on that.
My biggest issues were the slow pacing and the incredibly stupid way most characters acted. For a premier, it was incredibly slow and low key. Especially for content they had decided to release a few weeks back in IMAX in theaters, I had expected big set piece battles to set things up, then lower key episodes in the middle, and another big set piece finale for the season. If this was the best they could come up with, I don't expect much more the rest of the season.
I get that the Inhumans didn't live on Earth and weren't experienced with it, but they clearly had ways to follow what's going on Earthside, and could send people there. They shouldn't have acted like they were clueless. I had also thought earlier seasons of Agents of Shield had an Inhuman council which I expected would be connected with Atilan royal family Inhumans. The Earth based ones seemed to be fine accepting that each Inhuman power was unique, but their more racially pure moon based Inhumans decide that there's no clear sign of what power a kid gets within minutes of transformation and he's off to the mines, despite having precognative abilities? Don't buy it.
Almost every character in the show seemed to blindly accept whatever they were told, never suspecting they were being blatantly lied to or manipulated. Also, when Medusa fought the guard lady and left her for dead, even though she presumably knew she had a healing power?
I could probably go on, but honestly don't want to dredge more of the memories up.
Damon Griffin |
Also, when Medusa fought the guard lady and left her for dead, even though she presumably knew she had a healing power?
Her primary purpose was to escape. Stabbing a person with a known healing power is basically the same as knocking out or otherwise securing cops or prison guards rather than killing them.
JoelF847 RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 |
JoelF847 wrote:Also, when Medusa fought the guard lady and left her for dead, even though she presumably knew she had a healing power?Her primary purpose was to escape. Stabbing a person with a known healing power is basically the same as knocking out or otherwise securing cops or prison guards rather than killing them.
When there's been a coup against you, you don't leave the leaders of it alive.
Voss |
However, as others have said, the acting was universally poor, with only Maximus showing anything close to being like a real person.
He did? I saw him as the least developed character in the show. The 'resentful spare' is really all that can be said about him. The script said he was the villain, so they didn't bother to give him actual motivations.
I get that the Inhumans didn't live on Earth and weren't experienced with it, but they clearly had ways to follow what's going on Earthside, and could send people there. They shouldn't have acted like they were clueless.
Actually, I found them too knowledgeable. There was little to no culture shock or unawareness...
except with Black Bolt, and he just came across as a moron. Not that he didn't know what was normal, but that he just carried on with his actions not expecting consequences or responses.
but their more racially pure moon based Inhumans decide that there's no clear sign of what power a kid gets within minutes of transformation and he's off to the mines, despite having precognative abilities? Don't buy it.
That did seem off, but so did sending the kid off repeatedly, and not 'giving' him a room in the palace for his own 'protection' and making him a ad hoc council member. You don't send a budding precog away where anyone can get to him, especially when you're running a coup.
That said, I'm vaguely interested where this one could go as a couple characters seem potentially interesting (though they need to get rid of Crystal's terrible dye job- she doesn't really need a target on the back of her head).
It also really has to intersect with other MCU properties. They've already made too big a mess not to notice, or are too casual about talking about secrets in public or to people (like the surfers, which was a pure WTF moment).
Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Set |
Quality wise, it's up there with the DC shows, but it's got zero joy to it. With a person or two going through Terrigenesis in the first episode, they had the potential of at least having a person or two on-screen reveling in their new status, so that we could experience something hopeful and inspiring (and share with the Inhumans why they actually revere this process).
A human connection could serve as our window to this, but the only humans they've met have been utterly (inhumanly, even, pun intended) unfazed by any revelations (the surfers, who, in their defense, appear to have been ex-mercenaries, and maybe stoned, and the various pot-farmers and cops who don't have any idea what's going on), and that one scientist, who also has no idea what's going on, and has only met one Inhuman, who has absolutely nothing 'Inhuman' going on with her, since Maximus revealed that her kryptonite was a pet groomer and her 'super-power' got swept up and thrown in the garbage (or possibly eaten, who knows if they have food up there...).
phantom1592 |
Quality wise, it's up there with the DC shows, but it's got zero joy to it. With a person or two going through Terrigenesis in the first episode, they had the potential of at least having a person or two on-screen reveling in their new status, so that we could experience something hopeful and inspiring (and share with the Inhumans why they actually revere this process).
Honestly, that's the impression I always got from the Inhumans... part of the reason I NEVER liked them. Black Bolt and Medusa were always these stern serious rulers shackled with responsibilities of ruling a kingdom he could destroy with a whisper... Karnak was always that super serious advisor who saw everything and was grumpy... Gorgon was just angry all the time...
Inhumans aren't FUN. I REALLY hate all the focus they've gotten over the recent years, when Marvel has SOOOO many other areas that have been awesome for decades. I'm two episodes in right now, and I'm really not seeing anything FUN here... or even interesting that wasn't drug to death over the 2nd and 3rd seasons of AoS...
Maybe it would have worked better as a movie... but I doubt it. As a mini-series it'll be fine. Tell their story and pull the plug. Move on to something else.
Voss |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, the thing is they're largely secondary characters in other people's stories- they don't really have to be fun... until they're in their own.
Unfortunately the show seems to leaning in the direction of teaching them all how to love and be human, because they don't have the budget to do anything interesting with them.
Set |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, that's the impression I always got from the Inhumans... part of the reason I NEVER liked them. Black Bolt and Medusa were always these stern serious rulers shackled with responsibilities of ruling a kingdom he could destroy with a whisper...
Just grabbing this one bit to expound on, I've always had a problem with 'ruler' characters, narratively, whether they be Stark, whose company has gone belly up more times than I've bought a new computer, or Namor (or Aquaman), who are like Schrodinger's ruler of Atlantis, we never know whether they are or not until a new writer opens the box. Ditto T'Challa, who was technically king of Wakanda the entire time he was Avengering, half a world away.
Setting a character up as a ruler limits their 'range,' in that they *should* be spending at least a little bit of their time actually ruling, and *most* of their time in their kingdom / corporation / whatever.
And, no matter how 'good' or beloved a ruler or CEO they are, the dramatic needs of the story are going to see their nation / company run into the ground, blown up, taken over, moved across the planet (or to the moon! or to the kree homeworld! or back to Earth, which is frikking poisonous to the people who live in your magical flying city, so what the *heck* where you even thinking, Black Bolt?), which makes the character look like a crap ruler (gosh, Attilan didn't move, move again, move again, move *again* and then get blown up, or it's ruler kicked off his throne *four times* when the Unspoken was in charge, why does Black Bolt suck so bad at this? Oh yeah, drama!).
In short (too late!), an Inhuman story should *not* be about the ruling family, any more than a Star Trek show should be about a bunch of Admirals and Federation council members politicking. Take us where the action *should be,* with the soldiers and diplomats and spies and angsty teens getting into trouble (and adventure) by doing things that no sensible adult would do.
Similarly, as long as Namor, T'Challa, Doom, Arthur/Orin, etc. are supposed to be running countries (or multinational corporations, in the case of Stark, Wayne, etc.) they should actually be off-screen doing stuff. And if they need to be on-screen, punching faces and taking names, someone *else* should be warming the throne (or holding court in the boardroom, keeping the investors happy), like Shuri or Mera or whomever. If Black Bolt is going to be off adventuring, then put Maximus on the frigging throne (with a council of advisors / senate to keep his crazy in check). Probably teach him a lesson, in that ruling is both hard work, and kind of boring...
MMCJawa |
In short (too late!), an Inhuman story should *not* be about the ruling family, any more than a Star Trek show should be about a bunch of Admirals and Federation council members politicking. Take us where the action *should be,* with the soldiers and diplomats and spies and angsty teens getting into trouble (and adventure) by doing things that no sensible adult would do.
Well...there is a pretty popular fantasy show on HBO that is largely what your saying the Inhumans SHOULDN'T do
So IMHO, if the budget was there, the best route for an inhumans show would be Game of Thrones with super powers. Play up the politics and maneuvering,not the strangers in a strange land vibe, or starting the very first episode with a revolt. Inhumans would have been a far far superior show if the events of the first episode were basically spun off into an entire season, with Maximus launching his coupe in the seasons finale.
Set |
Well...there is a pretty popular fantasy show on HBO that is largely what your saying the Inhumans SHOULDN'T do.
Do you think the people handling this franchise have a snowball's chance in hell of making a Game of Thrones-level epic out of it?
I sure don't.
At this point, I'll be impressed if it doesn't turn into a Heroes- or Battlestar Galactica-level farce of 'we had a plan, but the hell if we remember what it was by the end of the season, when it just kind of ended, because we ran out of money.'
Voss |
MMCJawa wrote:Well...there is a pretty popular fantasy show on HBO that is largely what your saying the Inhumans SHOULDN'T do.Do you think the people handling this franchise have a snowball's chance in hell of making a Game of Thrones-level epic out of it?
I sure don't.
I don't think that was the point- Game of Thrones, like quite a few successful shows (including the titles you mention, and also the Star Treks, which shouldn't ever have the Captain & bridge officers ever being the first people down) violate the principle you've laid out.
So taking that approach with the Inhuman royals isn't automatically a strike against the show. And honestly doing this show with the non-royals or other non-characters wouldn't make any sense. The only point to doing the Inhumans as a show (rather than monsters of the week in SHIELD) is to show off the the recognizable characters people might (for some reason) care about.
But they've just done it wrong, in an amazingly uninteresting way. Setting up some love affairs and 'learning about the real world' coupled with a childish coup as the B plot is horribly, horribly dull.
A coup that still doesn't make any sense. He supposedly has some popular support (though the miners didn't actually seem to like him that much), but that wasn't used in the coup. And what do they mine, anyway? Moon rocks?
The royal guard (or even his personal shadow/assassin) have been given exactly zero reasons to support him in any way at all. And yet they do, because.. reasons? The ruling elite has largely been massacred with no consequences. There just isn't any substance to anything going on- that is why the show is going to be canceled and forgotten. Cardboard characters, no plot and no point.
thejeff |
phantom1592 wrote:Honestly, that's the impression I always got from the Inhumans... part of the reason I NEVER liked them. Black Bolt and Medusa were always these stern serious rulers shackled with responsibilities of ruling a kingdom he could destroy with a whisper...Just grabbing this one bit to expound on, I've always had a problem with 'ruler' characters, narratively, whether they be Stark, whose company has gone belly up more times than I've bought a new computer, or Namor (or Aquaman), who are like Schrodinger's ruler of Atlantis, we never know whether they are or not until a new writer opens the box. Ditto T'Challa, who was technically king of Wakanda the entire time he was Avengering, half a world away.
Setting a character up as a ruler limits their 'range,' in that they *should* be spending at least a little bit of their time actually ruling, and *most* of their time in their kingdom / corporation / whatever.
And, no matter how 'good' or beloved a ruler or CEO they are, the dramatic needs of the story are going to see their nation / company run into the ground, blown up, taken over, moved across the planet (or to the moon! or to the kree homeworld! or back to Earth, which is frikking poisonous to the people who live in your magical flying city, so what the *heck* where you even thinking, Black Bolt?), which makes the character look like a crap ruler (gosh, Attilan didn't move, move again, move again, move *again* and then get blown up, or it's ruler kicked off his throne *four times* when the Unspoken was in charge, why does Black Bolt suck so bad at this? Oh yeah, drama!).
In short (too late!), an Inhuman story should *not* be about the ruling family, any more than a Star Trek show should be about a bunch of Admirals and Federation council members politicking. Take us where the action *should be,* with the soldiers and diplomats and spies and angsty teens getting into trouble (and adventure) by doing things that no sensible adult would do.
Similarly, as long as Namor, T'Challa, Doom, Arthur/Orin, etc. are supposed to be running countries (or multinational corporations, in the case of Stark, Wayne, etc.) they should actually be off-screen doing stuff. And if they need to be on-screen, punching faces and taking names, someone *else* should be warming the throne (or holding court in the boardroom, keeping the investors happy), like Shuri or Mera or whomever. If Black Bolt is going to be off adventuring, then put Maximus on the frigging throne (with a council of advisors / senate to keep his crazy in check). Probably teach him a lesson, in that ruling is both hard work, and kind of boring...
I'd agree with one significant caveat: The dramatic needs of the story part is fine for a single storyline. It works perfectly well for the ruler to deal with a single country threatening crisis while he's in charge. It's only the needs of an episodic ongoing serial (like comics) that really blow that up.
Maximus's coup is a perfectly good basic plot for an Inhumans show. They just seem to have done it poorly. Maximus's coup this season, then some other city wide crisis next season, then yet a third and then maybe Maximus pulling another coup - that's when it all breaks down.
MMCJawa |
MMCJawa wrote:Well...there is a pretty popular fantasy show on HBO that is largely what your saying the Inhumans SHOULDN'T do.Do you think the people handling this franchise have a snowball's chance in hell of making a Game of Thrones-level epic out of it?
I sure don't.
At this point, I'll be impressed if it doesn't turn into a Heroes- or Battlestar Galactica-level farce of 'we had a plan, but the hell if we remember what it was by the end of the season, when it just kind of ended, because we ran out of money.'
That's just a generic argument against anything that doesn't turn out well. Obviously, the fact they didn't follow through on it this way was a poor decision, or the fact that the inhumans exists as a TV show on ABC (versus a movie), given the effects limitations.
There's been enough solid shows (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Luke Cage, and most of AoS) that the TV folks are capable folks. This really feels like someone's pet project that was rammed down our throats when Kevin Fiege wouldn't pursue the idea.
Voss |
Maximus's coup is a perfectly good basic plot for an Inhumans show. They just seem to have done it poorly. Maximus's coup this season, then some other city wide crisis next season, then yet a third and then maybe Maximus pulling another coup - that's when it all breaks down.
It is a decent enough plot, but they kind of skipped it instead. If the show was about the coup, or an investigation into the coup or a popular uprising connected to the coup or, really, anything, it might have gone somewhere.
Instead the coup is over, no one actually cares, and the royal family each gets a buddy or buddies to learn how humans aren't actually bad and stuff. Except the ones who are, like the police.
Really, the should have launched with Triton's investigation pulling in a couple other Royals, then pulled the coup mid-season after, well, after anything at all was explained, and any of the characters were determined to be likeable or even vaguely worthwhile.
Instead it's mostly about keeping the teleporting dog screwing up or down, otherwise the whole plot falls like a souffle.
Vidmaster7 |
What is slightly interesting is it seems that earth is trying to convert the characters over to maximus' idea of going to earth. At the end I can see it now BB (through medusa) well you were right Maxc the earthlings aren't so bad lets move to earth, but I'm still going to have a word(!!) with you for the whole coup thing.
Set |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Really, the should have launched with Triton's investigation pulling in a couple other Royals, then pulled the coup mid-season after, well, after anything at all was explained, and any of the characters were determined to be likeable or even vaguely worthwhile.
They could have started with a whole season devoted to the Royal family actually being successful(ish) at what they do, running Attilan, with Maximus being the friendly advisor who is tragically powerless, but well-regarded and regarded as the 'expert on Earth' because he's studied it the most (having become human, and becoming obsessed with Earth, and subtly feeding his family misinformation but not so overtly that even the viewers immediately trip to it, only noticing through the season that Maximus is framing things in the worst possible way, or best possible way, as suits his own 'let go take over Earth!' agenda). Problems in Attilan will involve some 'accidents' that endanger the Inhumans water and food supplies, forcing them to send teams to Earth to forage some replacement seed stock and water, and it would all in the last episode be revealed that the accidents were arranged, and that Maximus was behind it all, as his coup unfolds in the dramatic last episode of the season.
We could have seen the Royal family actually running Attilan, successfully, and gotten to see Maximus as part of that family, instead of him being revealed as the series bad-guy five minutes into the first episode, and the Royal family deposed 25 minutes later, and Medusa being shaved in the second episode, and Lockjaw having to be conveniently terrible at the one thing he does to scatter the group.
But this is all back-seat-driving. The focus they've gone for, with the coup being a fait accompli, is probably better if they aren't sure they are getting a second season. My idea above would be a much slower burn, and not at all useful to a show that's shaky on all other fronts and not guaranteed renewal.
If you've only got five minutes on stage, and the people watching have a gong they can bang to boot you off early, best not to save the good bit for minute four...
In other news, I am wondering how one gets on the Genetic Council. It's a caste system, where people with powers what suck go to the mines, but the people running the show, the Genetic Council, seem to be utterly helpless and powerless in the face of men with guns. Even a shot of one of them trying something and failing (or even one of them having a funny alien rubber mask, and not looking like a normal middle-aged human), would have been nice!
Vidmaster7 |
ITs a good start set what it needs is a crisis to focus on while max is working the back ground. something major that will take the royal family's attention. Allow them to stretch their powers and show what they work like when they are challenged.
although I think the goal to this one is to show the weaknesses of the characters when they are apart and then bring them together to fully show off their ability's together at the end. Basically make a grande finale.
Also with the actor choice for maximus even if you didn't know inhumans and have seen anything about it I feel one would still suspect him.
Set |
Also with the actor choice for maximus even if you didn't know inhumans and have seen anything about it I feel one would still suspect him.
Very true. Even casual fans of the Inhumans would also immediately recognize him as their only real villain, without the Game of Thrones connection.
There've been a few Face Turns for him in the comics, and I'd love for him to get his act together and remain a (never fully trusted) good guy, particularly when others in the Royal family (Black Bolt, Medusa, Karnak, Gorgon) are far less approachable and even sometimes sketchy in their moral or ethical choices.
They've mostly never been super-heroes, barring Crystal (who, unsurprisingly, seems to be the least 'practical' and most idealistic and potentially 'heroic' of the family), and so it's kind of neat how their behaviors can lend themselves to Maximus being treated occasionally as a voice of reason, despite being as trustworthy as 'also sounds reasonable' Loki.
Vidmaster7 |
Hes really not wrong caste systems suck and living out in the open sounds better on paper then living in hiding in a small city with finite resources. That why I say if this wasn't a comic book series the royalty changing their minds and agreeing with max and treating him as wise for opening their eyes would make sense. Its the whole trying to kill them and plotting that is getting him in trouble. Of course if he succeeded the victory gets to write history and I'm sure it would record BB as a tyrant and max as a savior.
Set |
Hes really not wrong caste systems suck and living out in the open sounds better on paper then living in hiding in a small city with finite resources. That why I say if this wasn't a comic book series the royalty changing their minds and agreeing with max and treating him as wise for opening their eyes would make sense. Its the whole trying to kill them and plotting that is getting him in trouble. Of course if he succeeded the victory gets to write history and I'm sure it would record BB as a tyrant and max as a savior.
Since their technology allows them to live on the moon, it *should* be just as simple for them to live on Earth, on a decent-sized continent where mankind has almost no presence (Antactica).
Perhaps later in the series, we'll find out why they moved to the moon, or how, or whether or not there is a 'Blue Area' or they are maintaining their atmosphere, temperature and gravity artificially (or via someone's powers, which sounds super-risky if that person tripped and broke their neck, and everyone in Attilan immediately suffocated...). :)
Arturius Fischer |
Vidmaster7 has the right of it.
None of this plot makes sense when they could just establish a "colony" on Earth. Someone had to build Attilan at some point, so they have the knowledge and means to do it again.
Their caste society even helps. Keep the people essential to running Attilan and let the others have the choice to work there in other possible positions or to travel to Frontier Town on Earth. The disenfranchised would have a way off, and once they've proven whether or not a colony works, they can replicate it as necessary.
Plus, this way they could then make a haven on Earth for the Terran Inhumans. Heh.. could even call the colony Haven. Find some resource on Earth that Attilan needs and import that so there's motivation to keep the peace as both sides would benefit.
Could even have Maximus be the "Duke" or "Baron" of the place if he wanted and let him try building his own, more egalitarian society.
Also... I think Lockjaw is doing a great job. He is still just a dog. To hit Hawaii repeatedly from the Moon is no small feat.
Arturius Fischer |
Indeed he is. Certainly the cutest.
At least in the most recent episode Crystal mentions that teleporting tires him out quickly. I was just going based on his limited intelligence (dogs are bad at math, and his masters aren't specifying how close they were supposed to land) but their explanation works too.. he was rushed and getting more and more exhausted with each hop. If he teleported 4 people, going there and back on each trip... well, that would explain it a little.
Currently most of the Inhumans are acting like total asses, with the exception of Karnak and Gorgon. Black Bolt is doing better but seems remarkably "passive" despite being their leader. I'm going to give them credit and assume his nature is to try and understand things and work them out and that he simply doesn't handle being rushed well. I'm liking him more and more over time, though.
The rest of them, Maximus included, can all hang for all I care. Seeing them in action is like watching a red-on-red battle. Fun to watch, but Im not invested in them much.
Set |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is why we need the Pet Avengers. Lockjaw! Redwing! Throg! Zabu! Hairball! (Lockheed is probably not going to make it...)
Add Old Lace, Devil Dinosaur, Cosmo, Ebony (Agatha Harkness's familiar) and Neils (Speedball's cat) and you've got a veritable Legion of Super-Pets... :)
Princess Python's nameless snake and Cat Loki are recruiting for the Legion of Super-Pet Villains.
The Thing From Another World |
The biggest mistake to me at least so far in the series is Madusa losing her power simply by a haircut. Give the character a collar or wristband that neutralizes his powers and that cannot be removed. To me that may have ruined the character development both in and out of the comics. Maybe they did it to save on the CGI budget. I think it was a mistake to have down so imo.
Otherwise the writing and acting could be better. That being said I'm hoping the show gets a second season.
MannyGoblin |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thomas Seitz wrote:I'm just glad we'll get some G+*~$@n Black Bolt, Medusa and freaking Lockjaw! Plus if they pull from Garth Ennis' version of Karnak run, I'll be beyond thrilled.Do you mean the current Warren Ellis run, or is there a Garth Ennis version I missed?
Not that I can really imagine a Garth Ennis version. Karnak drinking heavily and say "f%~~" a lot just doesn't seem right. :)
More like running around naked covered in blood and vomit while shouting HORSE WEENIE