Dragon Spellcasting


5th Edition (And Beyond)


I was reading through the dragon entries for 5th edition. As I read it, the sidebar on page 86 of the Monster Manual indicates that dragons of young adult and older can cast spells. It lists the number of spells as 1/3 its challenge rating (rounded down) plus its Cha modifier. It makes no mention of what kind of spells or what levels the spells would be.

On the same page, under the heading "Queen of the Evil Dragons" it states that Tiamat can grant spells to her worshippers but makes no mention of what kind of spells.

On page 103 under the heading "King of Good Dragons" it mentions that Bahamut is capable of granting divine spells.

On page 10 under the heading "Innate Spellcasting" it states that the spells cannot be swapped out for others.

In 3.5 edition, it states that dragons cast arcane spells.

So the question remains...in 5th edition, what kind of spells do they cast and of what levels? The text is pretty vague.

My inclination is to allow dragons to cast from both the arcane and divine spell lists. For example, if a dragon could cast 4 spells then some of these spells could be arcane while others divine. Since the spells cannot be swapped out for others these spells do not change.

Now in regards to the level of spells it can cast, the Monster Manual states that the spell cannot be more than 1/3 the dragons challenge rating (rounded down).

If an Ancient Black Dragon casted spells it would have available four spells based on its Cha modifier. It's challenge rating is 21 which grants access to 7th level spells. Could the dragon cast four 7th level spells? Could it cast only four 1st level spells? How about a mixture of spell levels?

How does the DM determine which spell levels?
Does the dragon have access to both arcane and divine spells and if so are their any limitations to which spellcaster list they may select from?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You could take inspiration from 2nd edition, or look at the entries for 3rd edition (or even pathfinder) as to what kind of spells they can cast. According to the entries on this website which has stat blocks for 2nd edition monsters, all dragons of Juvenile (and older) have access to wizard spells. An old bronze dragon starts getting access to priest (cleric) spells. A blue dragon starts getting priest spells at venerable age.

Then you have the entries for 3rd edition and Pathfinder to go off of. Or, you can just choose yourself. Maybe chromatic dragons can cast arcane spells from the sorcerer or even warlock list, while metallic dragons get cleric spells or such.

Also, you have differing comments. At the top, you said "It lists the number of spells as 1/3 its challenge rating (rounded down) plus its Cha modifier." then lower you said "If an Ancient Black Dragon casted spells it would have available four spells based on its Cha modifier."
So your ancient black dragon would have 7+4 (11) spells of levels 1-7. As for how many slots of each level? I would say no more than 1 for levels 6&7 (on par with PCs and just adding class levels to a monster), and the other 9 spread between 1-5.

I am not sure how wrong I am in what I stated above, as I don't have access to my book at the moment. But I would probably look to previous editions for inspiration when it comes to what type of spells and which spell list.


Adjule wrote:


Also, you have differing comments. At the top, you said "It lists the number of spells as 1/3 its challenge rating (rounded down) plus its Cha modifier." then lower you said "If an Ancient Black Dragon casted spells it would have available four spells based on its Cha modifier."
So your ancient black dragon would have 7+4 (11) spells of levels 1-7. As for how many slots of each level? I would say no more than 1 for levels 6&7 (on par with PCs and just adding class levels to a monster), and the other 9 spread between 1-5.

I am not sure how wrong I am in what I stated above, as I don't have access to my book at the moment. But I would probably look to previous editions for inspiration when it comes to what type of spells and which spell list.

The correct reading is a number of spells equal to the dragon's Cha modifier. Thanks for catching that. I like the idea of sorting through other editions but regretfully I no longer have 1st edition and I only bought the core rules books for 2nd edition, neither of which I still own. I do have a large collection of 3rd edition but no 4th edition. I can do some internet research.

I also like the idea of Chromatic dragons using arcane spells and Metallic dragons granting divine spells. If I don't find a more specific answer to my questions I think I will default to that as it would work very well in my world.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well for 2nd edition ad&d, you could check out that site I linked. There is also the d20pfsrd for pathfinder versions. I'll be able to check my book when I get home from work.

This interests me because I prefer dragons having spellcasting ability. Even makes sense for 5e because wotc is always about sorcerers getting theor magic ability from dragons. Not sure why they didn't include it in the default.


Adjule wrote:

Well for 2nd edition ad&d, you could check out that site I linked. There is also the d20pfsrd for pathfinder versions. I'll be able to check my book when I get home from work.

This interests me because I prefer dragons having spellcasting ability. Even makes sense for 5e because wotc is always about sorcerers getting theor magic ability from dragons. Not sure why they didn't include it in the default.

That's just it, I couldn't find more rules than I citied and overall the MM is thorough. Plus what you just said, "Even makes sense for 5e because wotc is always about sorcerers getting theor magic ability from dragons. Not sure why they didn't include it in the default." This made me wonder if I missed something important in the text somewhere.


I think that it's just a way to give dragons a quick easy mechanical spell casting benefit. A nod to older systems where they were spellcasters. I think it's intended that they from any spell list as the GM deems appropriate and justifies in game, and yes an ancient black dragon can therefore cast 4 spells a day of any class or any level up to 7th. If they are not sorcerer spells you might need a justification for why they have them (granted by Tiamat etc). You might even allow them to cast a lower level spell as 7th level (ie magic missile but with 9 missiles or spirit guardians doing 7d8!)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
Adjule wrote:

Well for 2nd edition ad&d, you could check out that site I linked. There is also the d20pfsrd for pathfinder versions. I'll be able to check my book when I get home from work.

This interests me because I prefer dragons having spellcasting ability. Even makes sense for 5e because wotc is always about sorcerers getting theor magic ability from dragons. Not sure why they didn't include it in the default.

That's just it, I couldn't find more rules than I citied and overall the MM is thorough. Plus what you just said, "Even makes sense for 5e because wotc is always about sorcerers getting theor magic ability from dragons. Not sure why they didn't include it in the default." This made me wonder if I missed something important in the text somewhere.

Mostly referring to WotC always having sorcerers get their magic from dragons (that was the default assumption in 3rd edition). There's even the draconic sorcerer origin.

"A young or older dragon can innately cast a number of spells equal to its Charisma modifier. Each spell can be cast once per day, requiring no material components, and the spell's level can be no higher than one-third the dragon's challenge rating (rounded down)."

So yeah, the ancient black dragon can know any spell you want it to know, but that spell can be cast once per day. So they don't get any spell slots. And with a CR of 21, it can know up to level 7 spells. I don't see anywhere in that "Variant: Dragons as Innate Spellcasters" sidebox about if they have any restrictions on which type of spell they can cast (spell list, arcane or divine), or if they are restricted to only 1 spell of 6th level or higher. So if you really wanted to, you could give an ancient black dragon 4 level 7 spells.

As for me, like I mentioned upthread, I would look to older editions. Pre-5th edition dragons had various innate spells they were able to cast. Example: Pathfinder black dragon (at ancient) is able to cast darkness, plant growth, and insect plague (plus is an 11th level spellcaster and gets spells based on that, but we'll cross that out as not really relevant). 2e AD&D black dragon (as listed on the site I linked earlier):

2e AD&D wrote:
As they age, they gain the following additional powers: Juvenile: darkness three times a day in a 10’ radius per age category of the dragon. Adult: corrupt water once a day. For every age category a dragon attains, it can stagnate 10 cubic feet of water, making it become still, foul, inert, and unable to support animal life. When this ability is used against potions and elixirs, they become useless if they roll a 15 or better on 1d20. Old: plant growth once a day. Venerable: summon insects once a day. Great wyrm: charm reptiles three times a day. This operates as a charm mammals spell, but is applicable only to reptiles.

While you could give them any spell you wish, I personally would try to stick close to the older editions. But that's just me. If you wish to go with the Chromatic = arcane, Metallic = divine, I would see nothing wrong with that.

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5th Edition gives the DM the flexibility to choose the best spells for his or her campaign, adventure, encounter, and PCs.


What bothers me the most is looking at it from the dragons perspective. As the DM I can and will choose what I want, especially if the rules are not clear.

But speaking from the dragon's perspective...keeping in mind that the text on page 10 under "Innate Spellscasting" states that spells cannot be swapped out.

When the dragon is born and passes through the wyrmling stage, it receives no spells. This is an established fact in the text. As young adult, the dragon receives 4 spells, of which can be no greater than 1/3 rounding down of the dragon's challenge rating. Using a black dragon as our example, at the young adult stage CR 7), the dragon could cast four 2nd level spells.

The same dragon grows up and enters the adult stage in life. Now the dragon may still cast only four spells, of which is not a problem. However, at adult stage (CR 14) the dragon is capable of casting 4th level spells. However since innate spellcasting does not enable the dragon to swap out spells, he is stuck with the four 2nd level spells he acquired earlier in life.

When the dragon reaches the ancient stage (CR 21), it can cast 7th levels spells. However, since its four spells were already acquired at the young adult stage, it is stuck with only casting the same four 2nd level spells.

Herein lies the problem...why give the dragon such a high casting level if they cannot upgrade their spell choices later in life?

Is the dragon capable of waiting until they reach adult or ancient stages before filling their four spell choices? This would be the only way the dragon could achieve casting spells of 3rd level or higher.

Would a dragon spend their early adult life intentionally not selecting spells? Does the dragon actually have a choice in waiting or does the "innate spellcasting" ability granted to the dragon come at a random time in its life and not necessarily at the young adult stage?

These are the reasons why I'm asking for clarification. Based on the conversation we have had, everyone agrees that its ultimately decided upon by the DM rather than me simply missing a rule somewhere.

So what say you? Maybe I'll just roll a random d6 roll....
1-2 Receives spells as young adult
3-4 Receive spells as adult
5-6 Receive spells as ancient

or some such die roll anyway!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think you may be getting the wrong impression by this part of the Innate Spellcasting:

Monster Manual pg 10 wrote:
A monster's innate spells can't be swapped out with other spells.

Of course, I could have a wrong impression about it, too, when it comes to the dragon. My understanding about this, is the whole can't be swapped, is in relation to those monsters where the spells are listed in the monster's stat block. Take the Dryad, as an example.

Dryad stat block wrote:

Innate Spellcasting. The dryad's innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 14). The dryad can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

At will: druidcraft
3/day each: entangle, goodberry
1/day each: barkskin, pass without trace, shillelagh

Since they specifically spell out the innate spells of a dryad, you can't switch out goodberry for another level 1 druid spell. Since the dragons don't have any specifically stated, they can be any spell you want them to be, and can be completely different from one black dragon to another black dragon.

I, personally, would treat it as similar to sorcerers, bards, and warlocks for dragons. Meaning each time they "level up" (change age categories for dragons), they can switch out a previously known spell for a new one of a level they can cast (based on their CR), with the stipulation that they can only have a single spell of 6th level or higher.


So your thinking that they can pick spells out of the entire Players Handbook so long as it doesn't exceed their number available or challenge rating restriction?

So one day the black dragon could have for example: Magic missile, invisibility, stinking cloud and hold person.

Tomorrow the same dragon could have Slow, Fireball x 2, and Cloudkill

Again providing he is able to cast that level spell.

I presume then that you were thinking either divine or arcane spells and mixing and matching these two types of spells rather than having all of one kind?

Then you added the idea of being able to "change spells" when they reach a different dragon age?

Perhaps I read into what your saying more than you stated, but overall this is what I get out of it, of which I have no problem with, in fact for Dragons alone, I like that.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, pretty much. Though I wouldn't just throw spells onto them "willy nilly". I personally would feel it a bit absurd and too strange to have a white dragon with burning hands, fireball, scorching ray and flame sphere. I would go more for an overall theme.

Other than that, you basically understood what I said, as far as I understand the dragons getting spellcasting.


Adjule wrote:

Yeah, pretty much. Though I wouldn't just throw spells onto them "willy nilly". I personally would feel it a bit absurd and too strange to have a white dragon with burning hands, fireball, scorching ray and flame sphere. I would go more for an overall theme.

Other than that, you basically understood what I said, as far as I understand the dragons getting spellcasting.

Of coarse, thank you.


I think dragon spell-casting in 5E is too limited, though I definitely don't miss the 3.x/PF method of building each dragon from scratch as it were a unique character.

I use double-Charisma modifier for the number of spells for generic dragons and I actually give sorcerer levels to dragons that are meant to be big bads (generally they get enough levels to gain access to the spells of the level their base CR would grant them. So they can't use more powerful magic than a standard dragon, but they have a much broader magical ability.)


The MM allows spells from any spell list it appears, at the DM's discretion. In a previous edition red, blue, gold, silver, and bronze dragons could cast both arcane and divine spells while other colors could only cast arcane spells. The 5th edition rules for dragon spellcasting allow for some interesting combinations, like a green dragon with druid spells or a copper dragon with paladin spells.

3E modules usually had a spell suite that a dragon or BBEG would cast before an encounter, a crafty dragon with access to multiple kinds of spells could have a formidabble combination of spells. Next time I run I'll probably have fun with non-formidable combinations, such as bard spells and low-level illusion spells.

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In 5th Edition, all spells are bard spells! :-D

Also, in 5th Edition, there really isn't a big division between Arcane spells and Divine spells, at least as far as I can tell. There's definitely different spell lists, of course, but I don't think they really care about different types of spells.

I would look for fun combinations of spells, especially combos that only require one use of Concentration. And fun doesn't necessarily mean powerful. It might be tempting to cast hex or hunter's mark on a dragon with half a dozen melee attacks per round, but that might not be as interesting as some other options.


SmiloDan wrote:

In 5th Edition, all spells are bard spells! :-D

So your saying that dragons cast bard spells? I there a page I can check out to read this over?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I was referring to the bard's Magical Secrets ability. ;-)


SmiloDan wrote:

In 5th Edition, all spells are bard spells! :-D

Also, in 5th Edition, there really isn't a big division between Arcane spells and Divine spells, at least as far as I can tell. There's definitely different spell lists, of course, but I don't think they really care about different types of spells.

I would look for fun combinations of spells, especially combos that only require one use of Concentration. And fun doesn't necessarily mean powerful. It might be tempting to cast hex or hunter's mark on a dragon with half a dozen melee attacks per round, but that might not be as interesting as some other options.

I hadn't noticed how much the difference between arcane and divine spells has been reduced. A few of the old differences are still there, healing and speak with dead are still mostly the province of clerics.

I'm thinking of spells that players can use to annoying effect, being used by dragons. I once had a player with a cleric who regularly visited the city graveyard to use speak with dead, expecting backstories and different voices from different dead. It made me better as a DM, up to a point. But a dragon who speaks with a recently deceased town gossip could make for an interesting backdrop to a campaign, a young adult chromatic dragon perhaps. I've seen players get very creative with illusions, a low cr dragon with a few illusions spells could make an encounter seem challenging without threatening serious harm to the PCs.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Yeah, illusions can be fun. I had a trio of homebrew undead hag witches use minor illusion to create a pair of dancers and violin music to waltz to.


the dragons' spellcasting abilities in the MM weren't designed to cover spells selection throughout the dragons life, they are designed so you can easily pick a spell list for a dragon of a givin CR that will act as an NPC or a monsters, and then be gone.

The reason they can't swap spells, is in the case that the PCs faces a specific dragons, and fall back, then when they'll fight it again later, it will still use the same spells.

If you plan to have a dragon as a reccuring vilain or ally, then you can select the spells as you need it as it is beyond the intent of the rules as presented in the MM.

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