Where has all the magic gone


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Hi all just a quick rant but after I had been looking at few post I just have to say .
IS it me or have magic items just become another resource to be brought and sold as needed players and by default thair characters see them as no more than aids in making them machines that are mathematical more likely to smeg the next encounter.
So they can get more loot to take to ye olde magic mart and buy another gross of scrolls potions and other magical gear to fit in with there pre-planed character concept.
Where is the wonder gone and the excitement when players find a new item among a treasure trove, I'm not saying players should not be able to buy minor magic items in big citys , but when I see people comparing the price of things to find the most cost effective way of doing things then sorry in my mind your missing out on the point a bit magic items like staffs,wands and other items should be rare and wonderful.
Not just something to be crossed of as you use them like torches arrows and rations


Forgotten Realms, 2e, and 3e happened, and magic became more and more the one-step solution to every problem you could think of. At that point the classes without magic spells had a problem, which got solved by giving out more and more magic in the form of items. Which made those magic items a commodity, something expected because they were needed to keep up with the expanding power of the casters - who then of course took advantage of those items far more efficiently than the non-caster classes, but that's another story - and their value got codified and the system expected them to be around.


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That "wonder and excitement" died the death when the 3.0 designers decided to make wealth a second progression track. Trying to screw with the wealth system in order to make it feel more "magical" breaks the game. It is possible to unbreak the game again, but that essentially requires redesigning parts of the system to make up for the lack of magical plusses. And yes, you do need to redesign huge swarths of the system, because some classes (e.g. the fighter) are totally dependant on magical equipment in order to be effective, while others (e.g. the druid) can use class features or bleed off some of their spells per day to mitigate most of the damage.


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It's been that way for over a decade now, and I(as a player) never found much wonder in magic items, and a lot of players feel that way. Making them rare doesn't translate to "more special" for everyone.
For the players that do see them as special, giving them something that is not in any official book still makes their eyes twinkle. What I plan to do next time I run a campaign is to use the unchained rules that allow enhancement bonuses to be built into the character. That way they can spend gold on magic items for the "cool factor" vs the "need factor".


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tony gent wrote:
Not just something to be crossed of as you use them like torches arrows and rations
wraithstrike wrote:
What I plan to do next time I run a campaign is to use the unchained rules that allow enhancement bonuses to be built into the character. That way they can spend gold on magic items for the "cool factor" vs the "need factor".

I can really recommend this, for every game. I think it's only the cure wands that are still mandatory.

Silver Crusade

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One thing that can help with the sense of wonder is making backstory for the items, couple that with a little house ruling (I incorporated something similar to Weapons of Legacy from 3.5e so that the items improved over time with the completion of certain great tasks) and you can have a magic item that is almost a character in its own right that will be carried the whole game. Hell, use that intelligent item rules and it can be a character literally.


They're still magical for my group. Don't know how long that will last.


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What Wraithstrike said. A +1 sword is a +1 sword. Making me jump through hoops to get it doesn't make it any more special. It just leaves me vaguely annoyed.


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Rub-Eta wrote:
tony gent wrote:
Not just something to be crossed of as you use them like torches arrows and rations
wraithstrike wrote:
What I plan to do next time I run a campaign is to use the unchained rules that allow enhancement bonuses to be built into the character. That way they can spend gold on magic items for the "cool factor" vs the "need factor".
I can really recommend this, for every game. I think it's only the cure wands that are still mandatory.

I've been really wanting to do this. The automatic bonus progression rules seems like the way to go if your after that cool magic item feel.


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Players can also help with creating this atmosphere. Some players don't want to, and that's ok, but it doesn't help much for a GM to create a backstory and make magic items rare and have NPCs react with awe if every single time, the player says: "Yeah, but can I trade it for a ring of prot and a cloak of res in this town? What's the purchase limit?"

All the responsibility for creating this type of game doesn't fall on the system and the GM, is all I'm saying.

EDIT: A more positive way of saying the above is that I love it when players get into the items they find. When they insist that their cloak of resistance looks like Dr. Strange's cloak and make a point of swooshing it when they dramatically leave a room. When they ask for a name for the blade they found in the wight's tomb, and use it even when (meta) they know they could probably buy one that would be incrementally better. The same thing applies to casting--players who play up their abilities as rare and marvelous appeal to me as a GM, and I enjoy those games a lot.


It's the PFS module driven focus along with the wealth progression. We can't have anything nice unless everyone can have it. There really is a lot of interesting things out there in the game, but anything not PFS gets underplayed.


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Daw wrote:
It's the PFS module driven focus along with the wealth progression. We can't have anything nice unless everyone can have it. There really is a lot of interesting things out there in the game, but anything not PFS gets underplayed.

Yeah, exactly. its PFS's fault that D&D 3.0 was designed the way it was designed, and that 3.5 and Pathfinder inherited most of its faults.

Wait...


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Well said quibblemuch that's exactly the kind of game I enjoy as well and is how I tty to run all my games


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Snowblind, read closer. I said that the interesting stuff is actually there, but it's use is discouraged. I disagree with the historical perspective of the problem. There were lots of unique and interesting things all along, the WBL true way to play discourages their use. The Arduin Grimoire tradition of highly individualized magic item cards, mostly home created was better, but there is no reason you can't do that in PRPG if you toss out WBL conventions.


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Where has all the magic gone
and where are all the CoDz...

Where's the streetwise God Wizard
To fight the rising odds.

Isn't there a Druid, become a Fiery steed
Rode by a Cleric, to make fighter's pride bleeed

I need some magic.


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I think giving personality to at least some items could go a long way. Not necessarily intelligent item level, but enough to make it unique.

"Every time you draw your sword it feels almost intangibly heavier, as if burdened by the lives it has taken"

"Whenever you take damage, your amulet of natural armor growls deeply"

"If you stand still for too long, your boots of speed will cause you to rock back and forth as they are eager to move"

I think items like this would help magic items feel more magical.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:

Where has all the magic gone

and where are all the CoDz...

Where's the streetwise God Wizard
To fight the rising odds.

Isn't there a Druid, become a Fiery steed
Rode by a Cleric, to make fighter's pride bleeed

I need some magic.

This bard needs a stage


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Because of the "+". It's ubiquitous. Should magic items have state-based effects, as in, weapon enchant does not add inherent damage, but change damage type, or an armor enchant protects against a specific damage type.

Magic in these fantasy universes is USER-FRIENDLY. There is no mystique, because that road has been traveled, surveyed, and turned into a superhighway littered with tourist attractions.

Fantasy gaming has kept evolving, and unlike the VGs that crunch the numbers for you, the stacks are only getting bigger. I first noticed the discrepancy playing Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind in my youth and actually seeing the rolls flash before my eyes in the display, how fast they were executed.

It's the exposure that did it. Lemme relate it to a real-life example.

Serving in Iraq, some of the locals initially thought we could see in the dark and were bullet-proof. Shock-and-Awe really worked those first few months.

As we settled into "Nation-Building" and fell into patterns of routine, they eventually realized... no, that was our equipment. We can't see in the dark, we have night-vision devices and lasers that allow us to operate at night more effectively. We weren't bullet proof, we just wore armor rated to stop several rounds... and that didn't cover our whole body.

Exposure to us led to the mystique wearing off. And once it wore off, they began accounting for it and planning around it effectively.

Back on topic, Magic is as commonplace as tech and its progress is IRL. just as I had a Note 2 phone and like it... why wouldn't I follow the Note progression to Note 7-oops bad example!

You can fruit-flavor magic to any degree you want in a campaign from base-stating its effect or speaking in purple prose, but without penalties and hard-setbacks (IE, eyesight for insight a la Odin), you would expect it to behave by very stable rules, as much a part of character progression as gaining levels and being GUARANTEED that bonus feat or class feature.

As much as I would love to recite the seraphic incantations on my Ironwood Holy Club of Speed a la Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, I'm pretty sure the rest of the table would eventually kill me as I delivered every divine strike with a verse from a sermon.


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Avaricious wrote:
Because of the "+". It's ubiquitous. Should magic items have state-based effects, as in, weapon enchant does not add inherent damage, but change damage type, or an armor enchant protects against a specific damage type.

Because no one would ever try to make a sword that's sharper and more accurate?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Presentation matters.

The +1 Longsword you found in the tomb of a lost elven king is always going to have more "kick" than the Frost Brand you bought at Lucky Louie's Discount Cutlery...


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This depends more on your group than edition or age. I have been playing for over 3 decades and magic items have ALWAYS been just another tool.


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Well Unchained did give us two different semi-official ways to deal with it.


Cole Deschain wrote:

Presentation matters.

The +1 Longsword you found in the tomb of a lost elven king is always going to have more "kick" than the Frost Brand you bought at Lucky Louie's Discount Cutlery...

This is the solution I'd say is best, short of automatic bonus progression.

My Pirate Captain in a Shackles game uses a sword he took from an ancient Azlanti tomb. For a prideful and power hungry Chelaxian, using the sword of an Azlanti king is too good to pass up, even if a better item does come along.


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I pine for the days when my consummate axe warrioress, who had focused on the power and awful grace of axes since she was but a wee lass, would help defeat the dark beast only to be rightly rewarded with... A longsword.

"Can I sell or trade it for an axe?"

"No, nobody has enough money to buy something as rare and powerful as a magic sword. That's what you got, just use it."

Oh, those were truly the halcyon days, before the soul wrenching horror of magic item choice.

Shadow Lodge

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Scythia wrote:

I pine for the days when my consummate axe warrioress, who had focused on the power and awful grace of axes since she was but a wee lass, would help defeat the dark beast only to be rightly rewarded with... A longsword.

"Can I sell or trade it for an axe?"

"No, nobody has enough money to buy something as rare and powerful as a magic sword. That's what you got, just use it."

Oh, those were truly the halcyon days, before the soul wrenching horror of magic item choice.

This post pretty much sums it up: As I recall, the 1st edition DMG stated that '70% of magical swords are long swords' and I believe short swords made up 20-25%, meaning the odds of getting a randomly generated magical two handed sword, broad sword, or bastard sword was really, really, really low.

Basically, the idea with 3rd edition was to open up the player's options: If you want to wield a club, you aren't going to be held back by a lack of +5 clubs in published modules or your GM's reluctance to have one of your knightly opponents nonsensically use a magical club so you can loot it.


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tony gent wrote:
Where is the wonder gone and the excitement when players find a new item among a treasure trove...

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Remember the first time you encountered a troll and the darned thing wouldn't die?

Remember the first time you encountered a swarm and your weapons couldn't harm it?

Remember the first time you found an immovable rod and couldn't figure out how to activate it?

Remember the first time... whatever.

When you're new to the game, everything is a wonder. Everything is amazing and fresh and if you loot a +1 ooze bane scythe you'll happily abandon your Weapon Focus (longsword) and take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (scythe) next opportunity, because "OMFG this thing is magic!"

Monsters, spells, feats, traps, haunts... all amazing when they're new. But once you've played the game for a decade, the sense of wonder ebbs. You start to play the game differently. It becomes a game of experimentation. "I wonder if I can make a fighter that uses nothing but improvised weapons effective..." "I wonder if I can pull of an incredibly stealthy character that non-lethals everything..."

Once you start playing for concepts, or playing WITH the rules, the game becomes about seeing how those rules work. It's not about the wonder. You know what's in your Lego box now, and you're interested in what you can build.

You'll never truly get back the wonder again, without changing game systems. All you get is the occasional new monster or spell that works differently and is a pleasant challenge to figure out. But that's okay, as long as your DM isn't forcing you to get all excited over the +1 handaxe he rolled on a random treasure table because he thinks you should be in awe over... stuff that isn't helpful or thematic to what you're working on.


Functionally, this is why Artifacts are a thing in Adventure Paths and such. Magic items are usually gear, with people planning accordingly - although it does help if items get names and histories. XD Artifacts are special because you can't just "get" them, or even make them. In many cases, you don't even expect them unless you've read ahead. They have that rarity value, and it seems to be working rather well. ^^


Envall wrote:
Well Unchained did give us two different semi-official ways to deal with it.

Yup, I don't think I'm ever going to run a PF game again without ABP (specifically the one from the blog) again.

If you find a flaming sword, I want it to be awesome because it's on fire, not because it gives +n to hit. You get +n to hit because of your intrinsic awesomeness. Otherwise, no one is ever going to want a flaming sword for some silly reason.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Scythia wrote:

I pine for the days when my consummate axe warrioress, who had focused on the power and awful grace of axes since she was but a wee lass, would help defeat the dark beast only to be rightly rewarded with... A longsword.

"Can I sell or trade it for an axe?"

"No, nobody has enough money to buy something as rare and powerful as a magic sword. That's what you got, just use it."

Oh, those were truly the halcyon days, before the soul wrenching horror of magic item choice.

I, too, pine for the days when DMs turned up their noses at making even the slightest adjustments to treasure hoards in their clear desire to hose their players.

Truly, as you say, a halcyon time when DMs screwing over their players without regard to who they were or how they were built was the order of the day.

Correlation is not causation.


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Cole Deschain wrote:
Scythia wrote:

I pine for the days when my consummate axe warrioress, who had focused on the power and awful grace of axes since she was but a wee lass, would help defeat the dark beast only to be rightly rewarded with... A longsword.

"Can I sell or trade it for an axe?"

"No, nobody has enough money to buy something as rare and powerful as a magic sword. That's what you got, just use it."

Oh, those were truly the halcyon days, before the soul wrenching horror of magic item choice.

I, too, pine for the days when DMs turned up their noses at making even the slightest adjustments to treasure hoards in their clear desire to hose their players.

Truly, as you say, a halcyon time when DMs screwing over their players without regard to who they were or how they were built was the order of the day.

Correlation is not causation.

The opposite isn't much better.

"Hey guys, it's like all the treasure was planned exactly for us, what are the odds?"

"I know, this world is made of convenient things"

Worlds where the treasure haul is exactly what you needed/wanted anyway don't produce a functionally different result from a world where you can buy what you like.

If the treasure horde isn't customized, and they can't buy what they need, then they are going to be "hosed" to some degree.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The opposite isn't what I intended.

There are ways to let people trade their gear without having shops in every friggin' community with the coin on hand to buy your unwanted longsword +2.

Or to use your axe example, if the reward for killing the beast is actually to be determined, then why not put AN axe somewhere in the hoard? It doesn't have to be the best weapon in the loot, but if there are odds and ends lying around, you can have choice without having Lucky Louie's Discount Cutlery.


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My group thinks they're special. But then I don't have branches of Ye Olde Magick Shoppe on every corner. I also adjust the encounters (or more truthly, expect better tactical play) to compensate.


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Case in point, when my Party was overwhelmed with loot that didn't match our builds -the DM rolled for the drops, and I respect that, we simply kept amassing them functionally "worthless" spoils into a travelling stockpile where we eventually petitioned the DM for some kind of planar merchant that we can exchange the hoard for a 25% exchange rate on equipment we DID need for our builds. Heck, it may have been closer to 5:1 -we were just so desperate for stuff to upgrade into.

In the interim, periodically we'd use the "sub-optimal" choice just to get through the next fight. It was kind of fun, using all those random wands and staves that dropped, simply because I took a look at group composition prior to campaign kickoff and MADE SURE I had UMD.

Took the mystique out of it, sure, but we proposed and accepted a penalty from a EZ CASH-style compromise to actually acquire equipment we did need.

I accept the hell of being a Small character in a Medium loot world, so I'm used to compromises when it comes to equipment. If not Gnome, then a Small Aasimar as per Blood of Angels when I choose to go more Martial than Mage. If I'm engaging primarily Mediums and up, I don't expect pint-size weapons and armor at every point. If anything, the group notices my plight and key-tags me for priority on magical items to keep me within fair spoil-sharing (Those "+"s I talked about earlier compound so well, and I love random artifacts -the more likely to result in "accidental" TPK, the better). I just bank assets till I can splurge it at a DM-appointed moment where I can custom-order equipment to fit me.

All-in-all the compromise worked. The DM rewarded loot he felt was fair and wasn't user-targeted to where we would STEAMROLL his precious campaign, and we the Players had some additional RP forced upon us by having to work with equipment we didn't want, and then exchanging it eventually at some loss for equipment we did need, but not at the numbers the DM feared that we would ROFLSTOMP his quests.

Magic Mart is inherently necessary unless you are running an E6 or other low-threat campaign, unless your Players are kind-hearted enough to donate +1/+2s to local militias. I META the hell out of any campaign I join, not the plot, but the DM's style, so I can plan accordingly on how item-dependent my build will be. The more lax and generous they are, the more I can Min-Max because I know my gaps will be covered. The stricter/leaner, the more general my builds are, because nothing is more painful than missing a save or being struck by a margin of 1. Rolling 1s I laugh at and accept, but missing by a hair really stings.


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Copy/Paste from older thread. And I say this as someone who actually likes the Christmas Tree effect and think it makes sense:

My proposed solution in for people who want to make magic items "special" is that you make them... well actually special. There is nothing special about a +1 sword. Let's take a look at some examples of what I mean by actually special items:

Maiming Shard - This thin grey stone is very unusually shaped, appearing identical to thin dagger with a larger than normal blade. This +1 keen stone dagger deals damage as though it were a shortsword made of iron. Any individual able to use either a dagger or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of Maiming Shard. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in dagger and short sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack. Whenever Maiming Shard scores a critical hit it deals an additional 1d4 STR damage.

Savage Cleaver - This +1 mighty cleaving Battleaxe has a single unusually shaped ax head whose blade nearly reaches the grip. Even when used in one hand, the Savage Cleaver is treated as being held in two hands for all purposes, including determining damage and Power Attack.

Fortune's Flask - This flask of baked clay contains sweet smelling water. If poured out it contains enough water for 4 people to drink. Anyone who drinks the water gains the effects of a Good Hope spell for 1 hour. Additionally, anyone who drinks the water can reroll one d20 roll made within 24 hours, after they know the results of the roll.

Misery Ring - This black stone ring wrapped in iron rings seems to radiate an unpleasant aura. Everyone around the wearer is also afflicted with an uneasy feeling. Every creature in a 10 ft. radius of the wearer, except the wearer suffer a -2 penalty to attacks, AC, saving throws and skill checks.

"Special" magic items have to be both unique and useful to be meaningful. And by unique I mean it's abilities have to be unique and useful. A non-useful unique ability isn't something the player's are going to be concerned over and in fairness why should they be? Think of magic as technology today. Am I going to be excited when I run into a +1 Desktop? Of course not. There's lots of +1 Desktops and they aren't even the top end items.

These items all have unique effects that cannot be replicated. Because of this my player's naturally treasure these items and make a point to investigate any rumors about such things. Each of these items would be worth writing a history about because they are truly are special.

The Exchange

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I like Anzyrs suggestion above honestly. I don't have a good track record with agreeing with him on game mechanics, but this is just a cool idea.

Rather than reworking entire mechanics of a game (and a balancing point for some games), just make the weapons you find or buy have cool stuff with them.

I'm running 5th ed at the moment, where you cant buy magic items. However, there are still +1 items etc. I make even these unique with descriptions, history and lighting effects.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Where has all the magic gone

and where are all the CoDz...

Myself, I'd have gone with Peter, Paul and Mary.

Where has all the magic gone, long time passing?
Where has all the magic gone, long time ago?
Where has all the magic gone?
Gone to the big six, every one
Oh when will they ever learn, oh when will they ever learn?


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Yes, Anzyrs suggestions are good. Add quirks and little bonuses to the better items.

For example a +1 Waraxe, +2 vs dwarven enemies, -2 to any non-dwarf who wields it. Hard to sell, but nice for the dwarf.

I do that, and I also loot dump to help the PCs that need it.

I also cut back on Ye Olde Magik Shoppe. Yes, you can buy expendables and +1 stuff, but not necessarily a Rod of Quicken.

But you have to explain this to start. I tell them not to plan out a hyper specialized build. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

Of course, I am flexible, they found a cool Frostbrand, but I let a mere Limited Wish make that a Great Axe instead. Why not? Why make them sell it and buy all another+1 to a item? BOOOOORING!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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tony gent wrote:

Hi all just a quick rant but after I had been looking at few post I just have to say .

IS it me or have magic items just become another resource to be brought and sold as needed players and by default thair characters see them as no more than aids in making them machines that are mathematical more likely to smeg the next encounter.
So they can get more loot to take to ye olde magic mart and buy another gross of scrolls potions and other magical gear to fit in with there pre-planed character concept.
Where is the wonder gone and the excitement when players find a new item among a treasure trove, I'm not saying players should not be able to buy minor magic items in big citys , but when I see people comparing the price of things to find the most cost effective way of doing things then sorry in my mind your missing out on the point a bit magic items like staffs,wands and other items should be rare and wonderful.
Not just something to be crossed of as you use them like torches arrows and rations

I share your preference for magic items as points of wonder rather than mere equipment. Unfortunately, as others have noted, those who designed the 3.X paradigm didn't feel the same way.

There are multiple solutions. My own was 5E. Brought the magic back to magic items, in my opinion. :)


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In my campaigns, I try to make magical items more magical in the following ways:

1) I give complete visual descriptions for almost every magical item the party encounters. I don't tell them the orc has a glowing magic falchion (+1)... I tell them the orc is wielding a falchion "seemingly carved from a single massive shard of stone, and that it emits a sickly green light with the intensity of a torch."

2) I make frequent use of the rules for creating new magical items; I really like making weird and restricted magical items...
A while back I awarded the Halfling Cleric in the party a magic comb for his foot hair. Mechanically it is a Boot-slot item only usable by Halflings that grants them a +2 bonus to Diplomacy checks. It occupies his boot slot because if you wear boots (magical or otherwise) you cannot see what a magnificent combing job the Halfling did.


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That's what scaling items are for. Check out the Legendary Weapons series from Purple Duck Games.


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The short answer (as Jiggy said and Wrath concurs) is D&D 5E.

For my campaign, I have three general levels of magic items unrelated to the WBL concept.

Level 1 - Items with enhanced functionality but no actual magical aura. These are things made from special materials using special crafting, including magical crafting, that are relatively affordable in the way that one might consider professional attire affordable. No one would actually buy these items (or request they be made) unless they were in the business that needs them.

Level 2 - Items that are magical in the conventional TTRPG sense. In the larger towns/cities these things are buyable/salable but not readily so once the price exceeds the equivalent of a month or three of general labor salary. As per Anzyr's response, and the middle ground between both of Scythia's responses, these items all have a history. For the very wealthy the cheaper items of this sort have somewhat of a commodity feel to them but even the moderately powerful items in this category have a non-commodity feel to even landed nobles.

Level 3 - These are Artifacts, things made by powerful entities for a very particular circumstance. They tend to scale with the users status (i.e. they gain in functionality as the PC goes up in levels) and though not typically buyable/salable, they are tradeable and often have value to certain interested parties that go beyond simple cash value. FYI, these are not old school artifacts like the Hand of Vecna but magic items that one could never consider as like a commodity. It's also interesting to note that these items are often not obviously different from the Level 2 items, so one needs to be careful about selling/trading a "conventional" magic item.

WBL is simply not a thing in my campaign. Pooling resources can leverage quite a bit for a party that cooperates well. PC death is a thing though and bloody hard/costly to remedy.

Also character levels don't have to match too closely among party members. For example, I have a player who wanted to play a silver dragon and the other PC's are all 1d3 level. I worked in a backstory with the player that keeps the dragon willingly polymorphed into an elf with some sorcerer class ability. Until such time as the party is at or above level 8, so keeping the dragon functionally an elf sorcerer. I have another player who is really into psionics and the concept in mind is rather game-breaky. So in my campaign there are Cthulu-like entitie(s) whose power is psionic in nature and it/they notice when something not of the order is using said abilities a little too often. How often is too often? Well, wouldn't you like to know? <evil grin>

But back to the OP. Magic is a real and dangerous thing in my campaign that is not easily harnessed. It takes specialized materials, esoteric knowledge and not insignificant time to get out of it what one wants. As a consequence magic remains a wonder despite every 1st level PC having one or more magic items.


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5E is no more a solution than houserules are.

You're the DM, you can control the magic. You can do that in a OD&D game and in a 5E game.


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While you can't just walk into any city in my homebrew world and buy any magic item you can think of, I do feel I've given out too much magic to my players in this campaign and they've come to expect like rats that push a button and get a piece of food. When we finish this campaign (probably a year from now as they want to reach level 20) I plan to change that and use the rules PF Unchained.


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Prince Yyrkoon wrote:
What Wraithstrike said. A +1 sword is a +1 sword. Making me jump through hoops to get it doesn't make it any more special. It just leaves me vaguely annoyed.

This statement is hilarious when spoken by someone with such history with magic swords as prince Yyrkoon... :D


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Wrath wrote:
I'm running 5th ed at the moment, where you cant buy magic items.

Yeah, I noticed that. Made me wonder why money was a thing at all.

Jiggy wrote:
Brought the magic back to magic items, in my opinion. :)

To me, it brought neither magic or magic items... :/

Again, I feel like the ABP rules from Unchained solved this very well for Pathfinder. It's only healing that still requires a milk-man.


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DrDeth wrote:

5E is no more a solution than houserules are.

You're the DM, you can control the magic. You can do that in a OD&D game and in a 5E game.

Mechanics matter.

How do you solve the problem without changing rules systems or making house rules?

Obviously, you can simply ignore the rules for WBL/treasure and item availability (though I'd say you're already close to house rules there), but that then goes on to change the expected balance of the characters.
A 10th level fighter whose only magic item is a +1 dagger isn't the equivalent of a WBL geared out 10th level fighter. Possibly worse, depending on how you're passing out gear for them to use, they can be up to par in some areas and well below in others.

Gear is basically a separate experience track in 3.x. It should run in parallel with actual level. I'm not sure that was the best approach, but it is how the game mechanics are set up.


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Rub-Eta wrote:
Wrath wrote:
I'm running 5th ed at the moment, where you cant buy magic items.
Yeah, I noticed that. Made me wonder why money was a thing at all.

It seems to me that the 5E expectation is that the money they find adventuring funds the various downtime activities of the PCs. (One of which is craft magic item fwiw, but the intention appears to be that one's loot will go into things like building strongholds and so forth).

The 5E DMG does provide rules for buying magic items - however my impression is that most 5E DMs prefer making them unbuyable. They're also very much on the quick-and-dirty end of the spectrum and don't even pretend to be any kind of economic simulation.


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DrDeth wrote:

5E is no more a solution than houserules are.

You're the DM, you can control the magic. You can do that in a OD&D game and in a 5E game.

Yeah, you can hammer in that nail with a hammer, or you can hammer it in with a soap bubble. You are the GM-Hammer-Man. You control your tools. Don't let your tools control you. Use whichever tool you want to, because it makes literally no difference to you in any way if you are in charge of your game-tool-thing.

...

Wait, what?


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Suggesting "buy a different game" as a solution in lieu of "fixing the one you like and are playing" is poor etiquette, I feel.

I would observe that, in terms of D&Desque games that make magic items truly special, 5e is not the only option. Personally, I feel like it's among the least appealing options along those lines.


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Suppose you include a way in your game to transfer the enchantment on a found weapon or piece of armor to a different item? A spell or crafting feat might be able to accomplish that.

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