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Planar travel? Make an Elemental-kin with Elemental Jaunt.
Can I get sources for this. The only Elemental-Kin I can see is a barbarian archetype
Time Stop? Wizard VMC. Doesn't hurt at all due to massive amount of feats.
Where are you getting the idea Wizard VMC can give Time Stop? Wizard VMC can't even get a fighter magic missile for godsake.
The Fighter should be able to use his means to gain the allegiance of those who can.
And yet they have no way to do so better than a commoner.
The Wizard can toss a Fighter to another dimension (not a 13 vs 20th level one though, l2build), but the Fighter can emerge from that dimension as a conquering warlord.
Unless that dimension is a no-magic plane I severely doubt that.... even if it is a no-magic plane I'd be surprised it isn't run by Cavaliers and Slayers. Fighters Should be able to do that. But they are pathetic at attempting such a thing.
Not every class needs to be a swiss army knife. Doing one set of things well is all they need.
Except every class except fighter and it's hybrids has more than one set...
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Wizard vmc can get an arcane discovery that resembles timestop.
3 rounds of time stop per day at level 20 is rather different to actually having time stop (especially when the basically only thing a fighter can do in that time stop is move).
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Can we argue from a PFS perspective? For many, non-PFS is just as valuable as 3pp. Home games aren't for sure allowing all these specific softcovers to make this fixed fighter actually possible.
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Wait, what does Wizard VMC have to do with Fighter?
There is the argument that since fighters get bonus feats, they can swap out their level-up feats with VCM with less cost than other classes (this ignores the fact that many other classes get just as many feats and that fullcasters don't need their level up feats).
Personally, my fighter fix does give Fighters free VCM though.
How many times in a campaign do you expect the Fighter to be able to take a few months off to make +5 armor or weapons?
You could say that about wizards crafting as well though (though if Wizards can craft faster than anyone else, it still takes up downtime to craft for anyone).
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it's once per day, and for that I'd definitely use my feats elsewhere.Wasn't that the definition of marshmallow fallacy a few pages back? Ignoring a actual solution(even if it's limited) just because you would rather choose something else that doesn't have a perceived limitation?yes and I pointed out the reasoning behind the marshmellow fallacy is a fallacy, it's the irrelevant conclusion fallacy.
you're proving the conclusion that it exists, and then saying, the rest must follow, when there's no direct link between an option be available and it seeing actual use.
it's official we've moved onto Schrodinger's fighter.
But saying: The fighter cannot do X isn't solved by saying "with this ability the fighter can do X" you aren't proving anything.
Perhaps I should be more specific in my examples, but to do that I need more specific criteria to solve.
Shrodinger's fighter is a thing now because abilities like Warrior Spirit and the Training property.
If the problem here is limited uses per day, then you really have no argument because every other class is limited in uses per day for their problem solving abilities as well.
Depending entirely on what you're problem is, the fighter has a lot of decent ways around it:
Master Armorer -> Celestial Armor/Plate & Shield which combined allow you to cast Overland Flight which lasts 9 hours (one hour longer than the game's assumed adventuring day)
Item Mastery (Teleportation Mastery) -> opens up the Dimensional Dervish feat chain which the fighter can finish early using its own in class retraining mechanic, 1/day at 8th/9th level then twice at 14th (assuming you stay single classed) It's Pounce that can get you into combat without having to waste a move action so you can get in and start full-rounding from the start of the fight, but it's also Dimension Door which has its own narrative power
Both of those can be obtained without spending your actual feats, but you will have to have some ranks in UMD (4 to be exact).
I don't see how this is an irrelevant conclusion, I'm sorry.
I looked up all of these combinations and I don't see how any of them follow. specially since dimensional feats are general feats...
I'm inclined to believe that even if the fighter can get these abilities, so can a Warrior, and they both have to use all their resources to make 1 very specific kind of warrior. It's not even a class anymore, it's just a blank human wear a ton of magic items.
as for irrelevant conclusion. You're stating, well a fighter can do X, so it's all fine. except no one contests that, anyone can do X, you know who else can do X, a wizard and a warrior NPC class.
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This is not an argument for anything. Pathfinder has so much bloat that any one specific specialized concept could be done with a sidegrade in another class.
It is an argument because you left out a key part: the specific specialized concept can be done BETTER by another class.
My sample Fighter builds here may not be 100 of them, but it's just an idea of several things a Fighter can do that other classes cannot.
What can your archer do that an archery ranger could not?
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i still say we need a fighter who can reliably topple a nation state
I don't know if we really need to judge classes on their ability to affect geopolitics, since the best way to do that is generally not "overt force".
Plus, I mean, after all the best class for destroying whole armies/cities is probably the kineticist (level 18 geokineticist can cause 9,600 earthquakes in a day and still get a full night's rest) and that's not considered a particularly strong class either.
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i still say we need a fighter who can reliably topple a nation stateTo be fair, a chained rogue with rumormonger can probably manage that, it still doesn't make the chained rogue a particularly good adventurer compared to its peers.
Hence why chained rogues are a tier higher. They fall under the can do many things but none very well mold.
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i think fighters should be made the king of feats again 1 general and 1 combat feat per level instead of 1 general and one combat feat every alternating level
Feat inflation isn't really the answer. Pathfinder gave everyone more feats than in 3.5, all that happened was feats like Improved [maneuver] were split up, and they doubled down on long feat chains like Combat Styles. And again, there's only so much you can do with Combat or even General feats.
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You don't even need to split up feats or put in more chains for feat inflation to be of little benefit. Since there just aren't any feats that come close to what other characters are doing at mid to high levels.
By the way, what would be an appropriate level for Fighters to count as mythic for the purpose of feat prerequisites?
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i think fighters should be made the king of feats again 1 general and 1 combat feat per level instead of 1 general and one combat feat every alternating levelFeat inflation isn't really the answer. Pathfinder gave everyone more feats than in 3.5, all that happened was feats like Improved [maneuver] were split up, and they doubled down on long feat chains like Combat Styles. And again, there's only so much you can do with Combat or even General feats.
Feat inflation isnt the answer, but consolidation might be. If every instance of fighter bonus feat was some sort of self scaling feat package like the vigilante talents that dropped 2-3 feats/small bonuses as you level they might be able to spend general feats to be more out of combat useful. Alternately they could advance effectively down multiple combat styles.
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1- Be the hardest to kill at low levels in a party
That's sort of already true.
have some of the best weapons and magic items at high level to compete with magic users
That on the otherhand is hard to do because of two reasons:
1. Everyone get's the same level of wealth.2. Because magic items are too limited without making them cost a giant amount, and the fact that mages can create the items to do anything the fighter could then do.
The only way to really do such a thing would be to turn fighters into occultists (a class which taps into the power of items letting them do things that the item normally cannot do like using a flaming sword to make yourself grow).
1- dunno if pathfinder rules/ allowed that because I am new to pathfinder, but with a d10 hit points and full plate, it should be alright to survive better than a wizard, to begin with. Also more often than not he should carry a shield, and sometimes a tower shield for "moving concealement".
Yeah they can do that. It's just not very useful to just be "I can stab things and have good AC" (tower shields also aren't very good generally).
2- the fighter at high levels probably needs even better magic items. Gary Gygax gave him in D&D 1st edition the Vorpal sword, essentially a good chance to instantly kill his opponent. This item was erased/changed in 3.5 edition (or 3.0 already).
Vorpal swords are still in 3.0, 3.5e, and PF.
Spellcasters will always be the powerhouses in d&d, the fighters should be able to compete with weapons of tremendous magic. In 1st edition, belt of giant gave the fighter the strength of a titan (or cloud giant). Here is another example.
Assuming the fighter had a Strength of 20 before putting on the belt, a belt that put his strength to that of a storm giant would cost 225,000 gp, which would take basically all the money of a level 15 fighter. If it made him as strong as the weakest titan it would cost 625,000 gp which would take basically all the money of a 19th level fighter.
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I don't know if we really need to judge classes on their ability to affect geopolitics, since the best way to do that is generally not "overt force".
I think it the best way to determine a classes narrative power. If a level 20th character can only keep killing a nations leaders and not really topple it then that's a lack of narrative power. mind you every nation has a few level 20 character's roaming around.
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have some of the best weapons and magic items at high level to compete with magic usersThat on the otherhand is hard to do because of two reasons:
1. Everyone get's the same level of wealth.
2. Because magic items are too limited without making them cost a giant amount, and the fact that mages can create the items to do anything the fighter could then do.The only way to really do such a thing would be to turn fighters into occultists (a class which taps into the power of items letting them do things that the item normally cannot do like using a flaming sword to make yourself grow).
a bard or inquisitor, etc, with the same items will turn out much better. :/
2- the fighter at high levels probably needs even better magic items. Gary Gygax gave him in D&D 1st edition the Vorpal sword, essentially a good chance to instantly kill his opponent. This item was erased/changed in 3.5 edition (or 3.0 already).Vorpal swords are still in 3.0, 3.5e, and PF.
it used to instantly kill humanoids on a roll of 17-20, or something like that anyway.
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yeah a storm giant and titans str has gone up since the old edition where str was capped at 25. Hmm Although if you factor in size adjustments it might help. I think the highest i could get my str up would be 36? (without size mods it would be 20 +6 belt +5 for att increases and +5 for tomb)
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a bard or inquisitor, etc, with the same items will turn out much better. :/
Exactly why I said the fighter would need to become an occultist and get abilities from items that only they can access.
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Pretty sure the point of the rant intentionally ignores the book value of these items Milo. He's trying to address a problem in the system, problems in a system are seldom fixed by operating within the rules of said system. Just look at American Politics :P
I was more showing how ridiculous such items would be in Pathfinder, not suggesting that characters actually create/purchase said items. It's basically "give fighters artefacts" as a suggestion to fix them.
Also (someone pointed out) that the vorpal weapon still exist. Yes, but in 1st edition, the head was not severed on a 20, but on a 17+ if the sword was a +3 sword, and on a 15+ if the sword was a +5 sword. So yeah, this magical property has been nerfed.
(Granted, this was super powerful.., but so is the spell Time Stop from the wizard side.)
Even if it did it on a 10-20 it wouldn't actually help the fighter... Fighters are already good at stabbing things, making them better at stabbing things doesn't bring them any closer to other classes.
Also there would be no reason why a barbarian/magus/occultist/slayer/vigilante wouldn't just use whatever buffed gear gets created.
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Fighter was nearly unplayable past 12th level around the time the first APs came out. I had one that basically died every game. That low Will save was just a killer, and there's no good reason to boost Wisdom for a fighter...
Now, with the archetypes around, and the myriad of options that came out, it's always a head scratcher to leave the fighter behind for something else. It's basically the easiest, most customizable way to get to a certain build you want. There's also a host of good stuff that now builds unto Bravery (drinking feats from Cayden, another one that gives you +2 to bravery and immune to fear at 6+, another one that lets you use that bonus against mind-affecting stuff, etc.) Then Sash of Champion... yeah... they're cool again.
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Fighter was nearly unplayable past 12th level around the time the first APs came out. I had one that basically died every game. That low Will save was just a killer, and there's no good reason to boost Wisdom for a fighter...
Now, with the archetypes around, and the myriad of options that came out, it's always a head scratcher to leave the fighter behind for something else. It's basically the easiest, most customizable way to get to a certain build you want. There's also a host of good stuff that now builds unto Bravery (drinking feats from Cayden, another one that gives you +2 to bravery and immune to fear at 6+, another one that lets you use that bonus against mind-affecting stuff, etc.) Then Sash of Champion... yeah... they're cool again.
This is my stance... except I still think they are a terribly designed class and need to get redrawn.
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This is my stance... except I still think they are a terribly designed class and need to get redrawn.
Yup, people who understand the game really well can make great and fun fighters, except that requires taking stuff from like 8 different books and having a vast and complex knowledge of feats (of which there are very, very many.)
In principle, this is fine, but it really seems that the fighter ought to be one of the most simple classes to make work and the most newbie friendly, when in practice it's more or less the opposite. It's really simple for someone to grok who the fighter is and what he does, but way too hard to translate that to game mechanics in an effective manner.
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I think the biggest area of difference people have is what do they mean by effective? Seems a lot of the game is discussed at the highest possible level of play fully optimized and everyone expected to play everything perfectly. If that is the case do you balance the classes to all be about the same in power level at the maximum amount of optimization or do you do it coming from the middle ground? How do you establish what is the middle ground?
also why does only the fighter get this when the barbarian is basically in the same boat except for 2 more skill points per level? there is a few rage abilities but their still about chopping things up.
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also why does only the fighter get this when the barbarian is basically in the same boat except for 2 more skill points per level? there is a few rage abilities but their still about chopping things up.
I have the same issue with barbarians as I have with fighter personally . They're so limited when it comes to "out-of-combat" situations it's ridiculous. Sure they can fly once you move out of core, but to me the "crossing a canyon" issue is a lot less pressing than solving mysteries, travelling long distances, dealing with obstacles, dealing with planar adventures, influencing people, raising armies, and sneaking around.
So really the skill system needs to be redone and expanded so classes without spells can do amazing actions like jump a canyon or maybe hurl a grappling hook over hook a tree and slide across. I'm not sure what to do about the solving mystery maybe better gather information? Add an athletics to add to str for BBLG type stuff. Diplomacy seems like it should work fine for influencing Raising armies also seems diplomacy ish maybe some room for expansion on that skill as well? Sneaking around? I'm pretty sure the stealth skill still works fine doesn't it I mean its an opposed roll so should scale fine? Although stealth in full armor should be right out anyways. I mean all those chains and metal bits clanking together.
All that seems very much related to the skill system. So skills unchained might be what we need.
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i just think the biggest draw for choosing a fighter shouldn't be "you get feats"
should replace them with like fighter talents, or "rage-not-rage" powers.
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also why does only the fighter get this when the barbarian is basically in the same boat except for 2 more skill points per level? there is a few rage abilities but their still about chopping things up.I have the same issue with barbarians as I have with fighter personally . They're so limited when it comes to "out-of-combat" situations it's ridiculous. Sure they can fly once you move out of core, but to me the "crossing a canyon" issue is a lot less pressing than solving mysteries, travelling long distances, dealing with obstacles, dealing with planar adventures, influencing people, raising armies, and sneaking around.
i had a barbarian alchemist with like +34 to intimidate at level 5. I should look him up again... he was a lizardfolk with a top hat.
All that seems very much related to the skill system. So skills unchained might be what we need.
I feel the skill unchained mostly just reduced penalties or enhanced what you could already do, but didn't really expand what you could do.
basically they still felt chained but taller and not as wide.
Yeah still has a few chains to be removed I actually wasn't thinking of that one. I was thinking of something that would need to be new. Something like the skill unlocks from 3.5 but no feat requirements and broader.
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An unsolved problem with the fighter, though, is that your AC doesn't scale. You are on the front line, in melee, dealing heavy damage but eventually you are going up against monsters making attack rolls in the 30's. Literally everything hits you. You end up needing healing every few rounds. So you have one thing you can do, and that one thing literally gets you pounded constantly.
Female oni-spawn tiefling fighter 8 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends 22, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 264)
N Medium outsider (native)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +13
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Defense
--------------------
AC 33, touch 15, flat-footed 30 (+11 armor, +1 deflection, +3 Dex, +1 insight, +3 natural, +4 shield)
hp 73 (8d10+21)
Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +8 (+2 vs. fear)
Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +2 voidglass nodachi +13/+8 (1d10+22/15-20)
Ranged composite longbow +11/+6 (1d8/×3)
Special Attacks weapon training (heavy blades +1)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th; concentration +7)
. . 1/day—alter self
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +10; CMD 28
Feats Advanced Armor Training, Advanced Weapon Training, Armor Of The Pit[ARG], Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (nodachi), Power Attack, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Weapon Focus (nodachi), Weapon Specialization (nodachi)
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary, vagabond child (urban)
Skills Acrobatics +2 (-2 to jump), Climb +5, Disable Device +9, Disguise +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (local) +2, Perception +13, Ride +3, Survival +4, Swim +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Disguise, +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Common, Elven
SQ armor training 2, doubt, prehensile tail
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon (2), potion of cure light wounds (4), potion of fly, potion of protection from evil, acid (5), alchemist's fire, antiplague[APG], antitoxin, liquid ice[APG], oil (5), thunderstone (2); Other Gear +2 dragonhide full plate, +1 shield spikes dragonhide heavy steel shield, +2 voidglass nodachi[UC], arrows (50), composite longbow, dusty rose prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant strength +2, cape of free will +2/+3[MA], cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, ring of protection +1, hammer, piton (10), silk rope (50 ft.), thieves' tools, trail rations (10), 25 gp, 5 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Armed Bravery (+2/+4) (Ex) Add bravery bonus to will save, Intim. DC to demoralize you increases by amount shown.
Armor Training 2 (Ex) Worn armor -2 check penalty, +2 max DEX.
Armored Master (Ex) Gain an armor mastery or shield mastery feat.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Doubt -4 for an hour on any skill or ability check after you fail that type of check
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Shield Brace Can use 2 handed spear/polearm with shield, but take the ACP of shield as pen to attack.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
One of my current characters: AC = Character level + 25, most opponents have a very difficult time hitting. She uses a Nodachi, no sacrifice of DPR.
Cythraul Dig
Female oni-spawn tiefling fighter 15 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends 22, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 264)
N Medium outsider (native)
Init +11; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +20
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Defense
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AC 47, touch 18, flat-footed 42 (+17 armor, +2 deflection, +5 Dex, +1 insight, +4 natural, +8 shield)
hp 136 (15d10+42)
Fort +16, Ref +15, Will +16 (+4 vs. fear)
Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5, negative energy 10, positive energy 10
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +5 voidglass nodachi +31/+22/+17 (1d10+34/15-20)
Ranged +3 adaptive composite longbow +25/+20/+15 (1d8+11/×3) or
. . composite longbow +22/+17/+12 (1d8+2/×3)
Special Attacks weapon trainings (pole arms +3, trained initiative, bows +2)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th; concentration +14)
. . 1/day—alter self
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 23, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +15; CMB +17; CMD 39
Feats Advanced Armor Training, Advanced Armor Training, Advanced Weapon Training, Advanced Weapon Training, Armor Of The Pit[ARG], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Furious Focus[APG], Greater Weapon Focus (nodachi), Greater Weapon Specialization (nodachi), Improved Critical (nodachi), Intercept Charge[ACG], Power Attack, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Weapon Focus (nodachi), Weapon Specialization (nodachi)
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary, vagabond child (urban)
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +9, Diplomacy +17, Disable Device +23, Disguise +1, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (local) +2, Perception +20, Ride +8, Sense Motive +18, Survival +4, Swim +9; Racial Modifiers +2 Disguise, +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Common, Elven
SQ armor training 4, doubt, prehensile tail
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon (2), potion of cure light wounds (4), potion of fly, potion of protection from evil, acid (5), alchemist's fire, antiplague[APG], antitoxin, liquid ice[APG], oil (5), thunderstone (2); Other Gear +5 deathless dragonhide full plate, +5 arrow catching darkwood heavy wooden shield, +3 adaptive composite longbow, +5 voidglass nodachi[UC], arrows (50), composite longbow, dusty rose prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), cape of free will +5/+6[MA], carpet of flying i, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, ring of protection +2, hammer, piton (10), silk rope (50 ft.), thieves' tools, trail rations (10), 1,718 gp, 5 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Armed Bravery (+4/+8) (Ex) Add bravery bonus to will save, Intim. DC to demoralize you increases by amount shown.
Armor Specialization +3 (Full plate) (Ex) Increase armor bonus of chosen armor.
Armor Training 4 (Ex) Worn armor -4 check penalty, +4 max DEX.
Armored Master (Ex) Gain an armor mastery or shield mastery feat.
Combat Expertise +/-4 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Doubt -4 for an hour on any skill or ability check after you fail that type of check
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Energy Resistance, Negative energy (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Negative Energy attacks.
Energy Resistance, Positive energy (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Positive Energy attacks.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Intercept Charge When opp charges ally with feat, mv up to speed to get in way of charge.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Shield Brace Can use 2 handed spear/polearm with shield, but take the ACP of shield as pen to attack.
Trained Initiative (Weapon Training [Pole Arms] +3) (Ex) Wielding weapon from chosen group, add training bonus to initiative checks.
Versatile Training (Weapon Training [Pole Arms] +3) (Ex) The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in two skills of his choice that are associated with the fighter weapon group he has chosen with this option (see below). The fighter need not be wielding an associated weapon to use thi
Weapon Training (Bows) +2 (Ex) +2 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
Weapon Training (Pole Arms) +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Pole Arms
AC scales 14 points in 7 levels. Pity for monsters who only hit in the +30's. She picks up social skills.
Cythraul Dig
Female oni-spawn tiefling fighter 20 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends 22, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 264)
N Medium outsider (native)
Init +17; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +30
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 56, touch 22, flat-footed 50 (+19 armor, +5 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 insight, +7 natural, +8 shield)
hp 241 (20d10+117)
Fort +23, Ref +18, Will +26 (+5 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +2 vs. attacks by a specific opponent you have designated
DR 5/—; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5, negative energy 10, positive energy 10
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +5 heartseeker impervious liberating adamantine nodachi +45/+34/+29/+24 (1d10+49/15-20/×3)
Ranged +3 adaptive composite longbow +35/+30/+25/+20 (1d8+19/×3) or
. . composite longbow +32/+27/+22/+17 (1d8+5/×3)
Special Attacks weapon mastery (nodachi), weapon trainings (trained initiative, pole arms +6, bows +5, weapon mastery)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th; concentration +19)
. . 1/day—alter self
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 32, Dex 22, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 20, Cha 8
Base Atk +20; CMB +26; CMD 53 (57 vs. disarm, 57 vs. sunder)
Feats Advanced Armor Training, Advanced Armor Training, Advanced Weapon Training, Advanced Weapon Training, Armor Of The Pit[ARG], Blind-fight, Blinding Critical, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Cut From The Air, Furious Focus[APG], Greater Weapon Focus (nodachi), Greater Weapon Specialization (nodachi), Improved Critical (nodachi), Intercept Charge[ACG], Power Attack, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Step Up, Swift Iron Style, Weapon Focus (nodachi), Weapon Specialization (nodachi)
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary, vagabond child (urban)
Skills Acrobatics +11, Appraise +3, Bluff +2, Climb +16, Diplomacy +25, Disable Device +31, Disguise +4, Escape Artist +7, Fly +7, Handle Animal +6, Heal +6, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +16, Knowledge (local) +11, Knowledge (planes) +11, Perception +30, Ride +11, Sense Motive +29, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +7, Survival +11, Swim +16; Racial Modifiers +2 Disguise, +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Common, Elven
SQ armor mastery, armor training 4, doubt, prehensile tail
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon (2), potion of cure light wounds (4), potion of fly, potion of protection from evil, ring of foe focus[UE], acid (5), alchemist's fire, antiplague[APG], antitoxin, liquid ice[APG], oil (5), thunderstone (2); Other Gear +5 deathless dragonhide full plate, +5 arrow catching darkwood heavy wooden shield, +3 adaptive composite longbow, +5 heartseeker impervious liberating adamantine nodachi[UC], arrows (50), composite longbow, clear spindle ioun stone, dusty rose prism ioun stone, pale green prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +5, belt of physical perfection +6, cape of free will +5/+6[MA], carpet of flying i, circlet of persuasion, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, gloves of dueling[APG], handy haversack, headband of aerial agility (wis +6)[UE], manual of gainful exercise +5, ring of protection +5, tome of clear thought +1, tome of understanding +4, hammer, piton (10), silk rope (50 ft.), thieves' tools, trail rations (10), 518 gp, 5 sp
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Special Abilities
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Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Armed Bravery (+7/+14) (Ex) Add bravery bonus to will save, Intim. DC to demoralize you increases by amount shown.
Armor Mastery (Ex) Gain DR while wearing armor or using a shield.
Armor Specialization +5 (Full plate) (Ex) Increase armor bonus of chosen armor.
Armor Training 4 (Ex) Worn armor -4 check penalty, +4 max DEX.
Armored Master (Ex) Gain an armor mastery or shield mastery feat.
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Blinding Critical (DC 30) Critical hit blinds or dazzles target.
Combat Expertise +/-6 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Cut from the Air AoO: Stop ranged attacks against you or an adjacent target
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Doubt -4 for an hour on any skill or ability check after you fail that type of check
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Energy Resistance, Negative energy (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Negative Energy attacks.
Energy Resistance, Positive energy (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Positive Energy attacks.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Intercept Charge When opp charges ally with feat, mv up to speed to get in way of charge.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Shield Brace Can use 2 handed spear/polearm with shield, but take the ACP of shield as pen to attack.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Swift Iron Style Worn armor gains +1 Max Dex and -1 Armor Check Penalty.
Trained Initiative (Weapon Training [Pole Arms] +6) (Ex) Wielding weapon from chosen group, add training bonus to initiative checks.
Versatile Training (Weapon Training [Pole Arms] +6) (Ex) The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in two skills of his choice that are associated with the fighter weapon group he has chosen with this option (see below). The fighter need not be wielding an associated weapon to use thi
Weapon Mastery (Ex) The fighter gains a weapon mastery feat (see pages 20–23) as a bonus feat, even when not wielding a weapon from the appropriate weapon group. He must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites.
Weapon Mastery (Nodachi) (Ex) Chosen weapon always confirms critical threats, and cannot be disarmed.
Weapon Training (Bows) +5 (Ex) +5 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
Weapon Training (Pole Arms) +6 (Ex) +6 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Pole Arms
AC scales another 11 points in 5 levels (Ring bumps AC to 58 vs. single opponent at will). A red great wyrm needs a natural 20 to hit, with room to spare.
Character saves are well rounded. Will is, by far, her best save.
Fighters get the best AC from armor and shields in the game.
Either from a high dex, or if you don't have a high dex take armor specialization. It's that simple.
The notion that fighters have bad AC is preposterous to me, they even get tower shields.
Plus there's master armorer again....
I don't know if we really need to judge classes on their ability to affect geopolitics, since the best way to do that is generally not "overt force".I think it the best way to determine a classes narrative power. If a level 20th character can only keep killing a nations leaders and not really topple it then that's a lack of narrative power. mind you every nation has a few level 20 character's roaming around.
As history demonstrates many times over, that is a surprisingly efficient way to become king/warlord/emperor/khan.
AC scales another 11 points in 5 levels (Ring bumps AC to 58 vs. single opponent at will). A red great wyrm needs a natural 20 to hit, with room to spare.Assuming the dragon has no gear or spell boosts to hit. Still, that's pretty boss.
Given that we don't have an official bestiary entry for Great Wyrm Red Dragons (we have charts and Ancient, which is 2 categories lower), it's hard to say for certain, but I will definitely say that casting spells as a 19th level Sorc (HD-10 = CL across the board, and Great Wyrms have 29HD) and possessing Quicken Spell (since the Ancient does, I suppose the Great Wyrm will, too) means that you are unlikely to fight an unbuffed, ungeared Great Wyrm. Still, based on what I'm seeing, a full attack routine would be +41/+41/+41/+39/+39/+39 unbuffed (4 more BAB and 4 more strength from aging up). The dragon thus needs 15s on primary attacks and 17s on secondaries to hit. Not good, but much better than Nat 20 Only.
Barring better uses of spell slots (and there are many, including Limited Wish at a minimum), that Great Wyrm could reasonably cast Quickened True Strike every round.
AC scales another 11 points in 5 levels (Ring bumps AC to 58 vs. single opponent at will). A red great wyrm needs a natural 20 to hit, with room to spare.Assuming the dragon has no gear or spell boosts to hit. Still, that's pretty boss.Given that we don't have an official bestiary entry for Great Wyrm Red Dragons (we have charts and Ancient, which is 2 categories lower), it's hard to say for certain, but I will definitely say that casting spells as a 19th level Sorc (HD-10 = CL across the board, and Great Wyrms have 29HD) and possessing Quicken Spell (since the Ancient does, I suppose the Great Wyrm will, too) means that you are unlikely to fight an unbuffed, ungeared Great Wyrm. Still, based on what I'm seeing, a full attack routine would be +41/+41/+41/+39/+39/+39 unbuffed (4 more BAB and 4 more strength from aging up). The dragon thus needs 15s on primary attacks and 17s on secondaries to hit. Not good, but much better than Nat 20 Only.
Barring better uses of spell slots (and there are many, including Limited Wish at a minimum), that Great Wyrm could reasonably cast Quickened True Strike every round.
- 1. We do have a site that has applied the appropriate calculations: SRD. That is a +37 to-hit on primary attacks.
- 2. Assuming a full attack, with a quickened True Strike, the great wyrm will have 1 reliable hit; assuming the fighter does not fight defensively. If fighting defensively, the great wyrm needs a 10+ to hit with True Strike. (4d8+24/19-20/x2)
- 3. The fighter, without buffs, using combat expertise, hits on a 2+ with her first attack (1d10+50/15-20/x3) and auto confirms crits. Her first iterative hits on an 11+
- 4. The fighter is unlikely to fight defensively unless unable to full attack. She deals far more damage than the great wyrm on a full attack.
- 5. Dragons do not, by default, come equipped with gear. If gear is equiped, CR increases appropriately.
Dragon DPR with quickened True Strike
.95(37)+(.95)(.1)(42) = 39.14
2((.05)(25)+(.05)(.05)(30)) = 2.65
2((.05)(12)+(.05)(.05)(17)) = 1.285
.05(33)+(.05)(.05)(38) = 1.745
DPR = 44.82
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Fighter DPR
Unbuffed fighter
.95(55.5)+(.3)(2)(55.5) = 86.025
.8(55.5)+(.3)(2)(55.5) = 77.7
.55(55.5)+(.3)(2)(55.5) = 63.285
.3(55.5)+(.3)(2)(55.5) = 49.95
Fighter DPR = 276.957
Bonus: Fighter saves vs the great wyrm's 9th level spells on a 2+ for both Fortitude and Wisdom.
The great wyrm only needs a 5+ to save vs permanent blindness, but is automatically dazzled on a critical hit.
The figher would be foolish to use combat expertise unless the dragon was making flyby attacks.
Fighters get the best AC from armor and shields in the game.
Either from a high dex, or if you don't have a high dex take armor specialization. It's that simple.
The notion that fighters have bad AC is preposterous to me, they even get tower shields.
Plus there's master armorer again....
shields aren't really on the optimization side of character's, also tower shields are horrendously not on the optimization side of characters.
it's 1 extra AC for -2 to-hit.
onto the actual listed builds...
also I noticed the listed character's still have horrible touch AC, you boosted AC at the expense of other defenses...
though, I will note, I think they made this new feat shield brace a requirement, it let's you THF with a shield out with no real drawbacks. At the same time, this really only applies to the Nodachi and was intended to pretty much be used with the lame short spears or a reach weapon, NOT just a big sword that has the brace feature.(I never did understnad why they made a slashing sword in the same group as polearms.)
so I feel like this is pretty much the ONLY case, where a fighter can get AC and do damage. use a non-eastern weapon and you're not getting a weapon like the nodachi.
Fighters get the best AC from armor and shields in the game.
Either from a high dex, or if you don't have a high dex take armor specialization. It's that simple.
The notion that fighters have bad AC is preposterous to me, they even get tower shields.
Plus there's master armorer again....
shields aren't really on the optimization side of character's, also tower shields are horrendously not on the optimization side of characters.
it's 1 extra AC for -2 to-hit.
onto the actual listed builds...
also I noticed the listed character's still have horrible touch AC, you boosted AC at the expense of other defenses...
though, I will note, I think they made this new feat shield brace a requirement, it let's you THF with a shield out with no real drawbacks. At the same time, this really only applies to the Nodachi and was intended to pretty much be used with the lame short spears or a reach weapon, NOT just a big sword that has the brace feature.(I never did understnad why they made a slashing sword in the same group as polearms.)
so I feel like this is pretty much the ONLY case, where a fighter can get AC and do damage. use a non-eastern weapon and you're not getting a weapon like the nodachi.
This is nothing but fallacy.
Fighters still get the highest AC from armor possible in the game. Whether or not you personally feel shields are optimal (or that they even register as existing in the game) is irrelevant.