So what info has been released on the type of interstellar travel that Starfinder is going to use? I know that it is a gift from the AI deity but what other specifics do we know?
Do each ship have a engine that punches into Hyperspace?
Do only large ships (large as in the commercial sized super-haulers) have the right engine and all smaller ships have to tag along?
Can it be entered only when a significant distance from gravity wells?
Can ships change direction while in Hyperspace?
Is there a gate network?
Is that why it's a gift from the AI because its AI servitors were traveling conventionally at a fraction the speed of light till they reached the destination then they built a gate like the seeder ships in SGU?
I believe it was a 'gift' as in "here I'll show you how to do this", and not like that "she is the weave" stuff with Mystra (aka village bicycle).
Is there a spell that can 'distill' a creature down into a compact solid form (like the Kelvan stasis device in "By Any Other Name", Star Trek Original Series)? Similar to Trap the Soul, I suppose, but maybe lower level or less expensive?
This process could be used to send a creature or many such creatures over a long distance economically, provided there was a means available to reconstitute the creatures at the other end. The vehicle itself could be unmanned, piloted by AI.
This could also be used as a method of smuggling a person stealthily into, through, or out of some area.
Jamie Charlan wrote: I believe it was a 'gift' as in "here I'll show you how to do this", and not like that "she is the weave" stuff with Mystra (aka village bicycle). I think this is an entirely reasonable narrative for the setting but i like to think it will be much more literal of a gift and not be an entirely neatly packaged gift either.
If the ascension of a new deity through... lets say unsanctioned means, leads to the creation of a new plane of existence as the AI does not align to the existing elemental or outer planes, Hyperspace could be a manifestation of the plane of information or some other concept made physical. But the creation of a new plane upsets the order of the planes and pushes the older planes further from the material. So using hyperspace to travel is relatively easy, you skim into it and pop back out in some different area of the prime material. But punching cleanly through Hyperspace to the outer planes is far more difficult and it acts as a barrier to interfering outer planar agencies. This could be accidental or intentional.
Another option is having Hyperspace tied to the loss of Golarion and all part of some plan to seal Rovagug away for good. The fact that you can use Hyperspace for rapid travel might be incidental and worrying to the gods as it starts to chip away at the effectiveness of their grand solution to Rovagug.
All just fan theories based on the absolute lack of explanation given thus far and they probably wont ever explain it as neatly as that since Golarion, Hyperspace and the Gap seem to be important setting pieces.
I think Dragonstar had a very good solution. The helm of the ship was enchanted with a Greater Teleport spell. Bound elementals were used as life support... air elemental provided fresh air, etc...
The nature of space travel and sensor technology should be expected to have a huge influence what interstellar political boundaries will look like. This is mainly based on how easy it is to create a zone of military control and then defend it against all interlopers.
There are at least four scenarios for dividing a galaxy. In the first three cases, sensor tech allowing objects to be tracked in real time requires FTL capability for sensor fields, waves, particles or whatever to be able to travel faster than light; information itself must become FTL. If such technology is not possible, the fourth scenario is most likely.
(1) Traditional territorial borders; imaginary lines drawn through deep space. This evolves from sensor tech being good enough to track other ships in real time over distances of several LY. Without the sensor tech, there is no way to enforce an extrasolar border between polities. If military control can be expanded to extrasolar space then enforceable borders can be drawn between stars. Indeed, there is no such thing, practically, as an unenforceable border.
(2) Territories as clusters of adjacent star systems. If starships have FTL and troops must travel between stars, but sensor tech is limited to monitoring everything inside a solar system in real time, then effective zones of control are confined to individual star systems. An interstellar nation-state might rule several neighboring systems, even hundreds, but cannot prevent invaders from slipping between stars to attack assets in the interior. Whatever borders might exist, they terminate at the edges of solar systems or wherever military forces can bring overwhelming force to bear. In contested regions, contested and controlled systems may be intermingled in space with no clear zones of control.
(3) Patchwork control of star systems. If space travel from planet to planet is possible, via teleportation or "stargate" or something similar, and this supersedes FTL travel between stars ineffectiveness or efficiency, then proximity of star systems and planets is largely irrelevant. There are no effective zones of control anywhere other than within the star systems themselves (or even beyond a planet's near vicinity if different planets inside a star system are controlled by different military powers).
Scenario three is also possible if starship FTL is permitted and can be incorporated into drones, and if FTL coexists with personal stargate travel or teleportation, but no FTL information travel exists. In this case, FTL travel of information is represented by autonomous 'data couriers' packed with sensors and recording devices continually patrolling the frontiers of star systems, which can 'warp out' to go report an intrusion when one is detected.
Absent any possibility of FTL informational travel, then we are left with:
(4) Patchwork control of individual planets, moons, space stations, asteroid bases, etc. The light barrier may not inhibit individual travel between stars (e.g. by starship or stargate or teleportation) but it does prevent the monitoring of hostiles approaching further than a few lightseconds or lightminutes away. Threats cannot be intercepted until they are near the observational range whatever is possible with sublight sensors.
Matthew Shelton wrote: The nature of space travel and sensor technology should be expected to have a huge influence what interstellar political boundaries will look like. This is mainly based on how easy it is to create a zone of military control and then defend it against all interlopers.
There are at least four scenarios for dividing a galaxy. In the first three cases, sensor tech allowing objects to be tracked in real time requires FTL capability for sensor fields, waves, particles or whatever to be able to travel faster than light; information itself must become FTL. If such technology is not possible, the fourth scenario is most likely.
(1) Traditional territorial borders; imaginary lines drawn through deep space. This evolves from sensor tech being good enough to track other ships in real time over distances of several LY. Without the sensor tech, there is no way to enforce an extrasolar border between polities. If military control can be expanded to extrasolar space then enforceable borders can be drawn between stars. Indeed, there is no such thing, practically, as an unenforceable border.
(2) Territories as clusters of adjacent star systems. If starships have FTL and troops must travel between stars, but sensor tech is limited to monitoring everything inside a solar system in real time, then effective zones of control are confined to individual star systems. An interstellar nation-state might rule several neighboring systems, even hundreds, but cannot prevent invaders from slipping between stars to attack assets in the interior. Whatever borders might exist, they terminate at the edges of solar systems or wherever military forces can bring overwhelming force to bear. In contested regions, contested and controlled systems may be intermingled in space with no clear zones of control.
(3) Patchwork control of star systems. If space travel from planet to planet is possible, via teleportation or "stargate" or something similar, and this supersedes FTL travel between stars ineffectiveness or efficiency, then proximity...
(3) at least should be possible without FTL information. It's basically Age of Sail naval warfare.
There's also the possibility of travel only with limited stationary gates. Control the gate into the system and you control access to the system.
thejeff wrote: (3) at least should be possible without FTL information. It's basically Age of Sail naval warfare. While sailcraft were slow, travel between continents generally did not take place over centuries.
What you're thinking of is more akin to the situation described by the novel "The Forever War" by Joe Halderman.
As one can see... without FTL you can't maintain a conventional "Age of Sail" empire... when the travel times exceed the lifespan of the travellers.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote: thejeff wrote: (3) at least should be possible without FTL information. It's basically Age of Sail naval warfare. While sailcraft were slow, travel between continents generally did not take place over centuries.
What you're thinking of is more akin to the situation described by the novel "The Forever War" by Joe Halderman.
As one can see... without FTL you can't maintain a conventional "Age of Sail" empire... when the travel times exceed the lifespan of the travellers. The scenario Matthew was describing was FTL travel, but no FTL communication (other than sending a ship).
So, no sensors to let you know something's coming FTL until it's there.
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thejeff wrote: Drahliana Moonrunner wrote: thejeff wrote: (3) at least should be possible without FTL information. It's basically Age of Sail naval warfare. While sailcraft were slow, travel between continents generally did not take place over centuries.
What you're thinking of is more akin to the situation described by the novel "The Forever War" by Joe Halderman.
As one can see... without FTL you can't maintain a conventional "Age of Sail" empire... when the travel times exceed the lifespan of the travellers. The scenario Matthew was describing was FTL travel, but no FTL communication (other than sending a ship).
So, no sensors to let you know something's coming FTL until it's there. That sounds very much like MegaTraveller. In the fall of the Third Imperium, the speeds of the starships (as measured in Jump capabilities) determines the the spread of the news of the assasination of Emperor Strephon...which is key to Dulinor setting himself up on Delphi.
OOH! Traveller! The first game I ever learned. The courier ships used by the Imperial Navy were custom built Jump-6 ( as in 6 parsecs, or roughly twenty lightyears ) at TL 15. The Express Boats for routine communication had Jump 4 ( roughly fifteen lightyears ) at TL 13. The courier ships / X-Boats would enter a system at a predefined location, and tight-beam a data dump to other ships ready to depart. That way, the time between entering and leaving a system was kept to a minimum.
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There was another aspect/limitation to the jump drives in Traveller that shaped the way the universe there works; Jumps take a week and leave you 100D at best from destination planets and large gravitic bodies.
So even once a fight begins, chances are even if reinforcements arrive, it's only because they were originally going to be there in the first place, they're gonna be coming in from the outer system (the 100D minimum distance applies to stars as well far as I remember, so you can't just warp to mercury's orbit), and most likely be known about for hours.
Yes, that too. Also, any attacking force will have to contend with the System Defense Boats (SDBs), which could be lurking anywhere, like the target world's oceans, the system's Gas Giants, the asteriod belts, the system's Kuyper Belt, and its Oort cloud.
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There's always been something that bothered me about FTL ships but no FTL communication. If you had sensors that can scan parsecs of areas, then those sensors would have to be using energy waves that are FTL to cross those gulfs of space and return quickly for use. So with that technology in existence, why couldn't there be FTL communication?
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It can be as simple as it only affecting - like in traveller - matter enclosed in the effect.
So you can FTL a message probe - and those comm boats are basically gigantic databanks containing the entire week's worth of the entire internet - but radio or particles sent out drop back down to LS as soon as they'd cross beyond the bubble - which they can't really because it's a big fat shield of plasma keeping it all in.
I suppose that's fair. I've done a lot of space game setting building since sci fi has always been my first love over fantasy. And I've set up how planetary invasions work in a setting where there is no FTL communication. Stellar System Defense would work like forts on the borderlands in fantasy. You'd have several sensor arrays in the Oort Cloud or even in the heliopause of the system (in my game, FTL stops working just at the heliopause) that can detect FTL signatures. You'd probably have some space stations out there patrolling, but it'd be like the s$@+ duty. I think you'd only really start seeing the defensible positions passed the Oort Cloud since the home system can mobilize easily. Granted, this is assuming a very civilized core world of an empire, or a capital world. Frontier worlds wouldn't be developed enough to have a good defensive position.
I'm a bit excited for Starfinder as you can see.
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Odraude wrote: There's always been something that bothered me about FTL ships but no FTL communication. If you had sensors that can scan parsecs of areas, then those sensors would have to be using energy waves that are FTL to cross those gulfs of space and return quickly for use. So with that technology in existence, why couldn't there be FTL communication? I think the general assumption is that in such settings, you don't have sensors that can scan parsecs of space in real time. Obviously, you can look for static things like stars and planets with normal electromagnetic sensors.
Your FTL ships may just rely on knowing up front where the big things are and rely on the emptiness of space to avoid other collisions. Or they may travel in hyperspace or a warp bubble or some other such technobabble so they don't have to worry about anything in realspace.
See some of C.J. Cherryh's settings for how this can play out for wars. Jump drive, but light speed limits on sensors/communication. The scenes where a ship Jumps into a system and the scanners are all projecting where the ships in the system are likely to be now, based on the light lagged data they're receiving are quite tense. It's even worse for those in-system, since they don't even know you've arrived until the signal reaches them. If you're 10 light minutes out, you've got 10 minutes before they can know you're there.
Mind you, it's far more complex than anything I'd like to try in a game, but it's fun to read.
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Odraude wrote: There's always been something that bothered me about FTL ships but no FTL communication. If you had sensors that can scan parsecs of areas, then those sensors would have to be using energy waves that are FTL to cross those gulfs of space and return quickly for use. So with that technology in existence, why couldn't there be FTL communication? In Traveller, Jump drives essentially create a short-range artificial wormhole. Once a ship enters Jumpspace, the entry aperture closes. To leave it open for general communication would introduce a navigation hazard. Also, Jumpspace interferes with EM radiation, making FTL communication impossible, as well as FTL sensors. I hope this helps clarify the relevant points of a specific form of FTL travel.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense and I dig it. I've always preferred that since it makes frontier space games possible and fun.
Odraude wrote: I suppose that's fair. I've done a lot of space game setting building since sci fi has always been my first love over fantasy. And I've set up how planetary invasions work in a setting where there is no FTL communication. Stellar System Defense would work like forts on the borderlands in fantasy. You'd have several sensor arrays in the Oort Cloud or even in the heliopause of the system (in my game, FTL stops working just at the heliopause) that can detect FTL signatures. You'd probably have some space stations out there patrolling, but it'd be like the s$!$ duty. I think you'd only really start seeing the defensible positions passed the Oort Cloud since the home system can mobilize easily. Granted, this is assuming a very civilized core world of an empire, or a capital world. Frontier worlds wouldn't be developed enough to have a good defensive position.
I'm a bit excited for Starfinder as you can see.
Which is why, in Traveller, the Imperial Navy would do regular patrols. Even if said patrols are just a pair of corvette (the ship, not the car) sized ships.
John Napier 698 wrote: Odraude wrote: I suppose that's fair. I've done a lot of space game setting building since sci fi has always been my first love over fantasy. And I've set up how planetary invasions work in a setting where there is no FTL communication. Stellar System Defense would work like forts on the borderlands in fantasy. You'd have several sensor arrays in the Oort Cloud or even in the heliopause of the system (in my game, FTL stops working just at the heliopause) that can detect FTL signatures. You'd probably have some space stations out there patrolling, but it'd be like the s$!$ duty. I think you'd only really start seeing the defensible positions passed the Oort Cloud since the home system can mobilize easily. Granted, this is assuming a very civilized core world of an empire, or a capital world. Frontier worlds wouldn't be developed enough to have a good defensive position.
I'm a bit excited for Starfinder as you can see.
Which is why, in Traveller, the Imperial Navy would do regular patrols. Even if said patrols are just a pair of corvette (the ship, not the car) sized ships. Yeah that's something I've always felt would happen. While I haven't played Traveller, I've definitely played a lot of other sci fi games as well as skinning Savage Worlds for sci fi and playing Mechwarriror. Ran a commando campaign for players that infiltrated a core world system, did a lot of sabotage and terrorism, and then played out the resulting planetary invasion. It was fun and used a mix of Savage Worlds and Firestorm Armada for space battles. People definitely enjoyed it.
Just picked up Cepheus Engine which is an OGL Traveller product. Really good stuff.
John Napier 698 wrote: the asteriod belts, That should be asteroid. Was kind of tired when I posted this. Sorry.
Also, Traveller (in any form) would be an excellent resource for similar RPGs, like I hope Starfinder will be. Get all such resources that you can. It may even be possible to port the setting to Starfinder. As you can probably tell, I'm equally stoked for Starfinder.
Odraude wrote:
Yeah that's something I've always felt would happen. While I haven't played Traveller, I've definitely played a lot of other sci fi games as well as skinning Savage Worlds for sci fi and playing Mechwarriror. Ran a commando campaign for players that infiltrated a core world system, did a lot of sabotage and terrorism, and then played out the resulting planetary invasion. It was fun and used a mix of Savage Worlds and Firestorm Armada for space battles. People definitely enjoyed it.
Sounds like it woud be a great AP for Starfinder. Would the infiltration look anthing like this? www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGB-f8N-oqQ
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The 'gift from the AI' concept reminds me of Dan Simmons's Endymion series. Perhaps it would be best not to anger said AI.
Maybe FTL/hyperspace travel could work like a cellular network.
Hyperspace by itself let you limp along at 0G. 0G is still really fast compared to sublight (dialup), but you'll hardly get anywhere soon.
Now someone invents the first push beacons. Fhese devices let all starships in hyperspace within its area of effect speed up to 1G, which is way faster than 0G for the same amount of energy consumption. The series I beacons has a radius of 0.5 LY which can be strung together to make unbroken 1G corridors between star systems.
Eventually the Series II push beacons are rolled out, with 2G speeds and an effective radius of 4 LY. Some very old starship engines cannot interact with the 2G fields and are stuck in the 'slow lane'.
Series III push beacons are even better, 3G speeds are awesome, and a few of these can cover an entire 100-LY sector with their 30-LY range. But as before, some 1G-capable ships can't benefit. They are stuck at 1G or 2G.
Series IV push beacon technology is top-of-the-line, and can support an entire sector by itself (and then some) with its 180-LY range. However, compatible hyperdrives are expensive and there is always a shortage of new units; most cannot afford but a used one. Those who can get one, though, are the hot rods of the galaxy.
Series V push beacons with 5G speeds? Maybe someone has a few but you can't even find someone who's willing to sell or custom-build one.
Civilized space is crisscrossed with push beacons both new and old. To be out on the frontier means to be stuck creeping along in hyperspace at 1G (or even 0G if you're *really* out in the boonies). Supply runs usually entail crawling toward the nearest beacon field and then coursing through better and faster G-fields until you arrive "at town" which is a slightly more wealthy podunk settlement closer to true civilization. You buy, sell, or trade then take the 'hyperhighway' back to home.
Or, interstellar travel could depend on how well a region is charted. At FTL speeds an asteroid could vaporize a ship. Rogue planets could hinder travel along a route entirely. Older maps wouldn't have the proper coordinates for a system, etc. Hyperspace Navigation Beacons would help with the calculation of routes, but would still not take into account intervening hazards. Plus, those beacons would still have to be maintained.
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I get the feeling that Hyperspace isn't FTL in the way you are thinking, its probably more like "hop into a psuedo dimension where you travel at what seems to be regular old fast spaceship speeds and when you pop out again you've actually traveled several lightyears." I am thinking something like Babylon 5 or Star Control.
I'm working on the theory that massive objects will "pull" a ship out of Hyperspace. Since momentum must be conserved, you'd be hitting the object at a very high velocity. This is the reason for my opinion that old or inaccurate charts are dangerous. The Hyperspace beacons are to take into account the fact that stars move, drifting according to their proper motion.
John Napier 698 wrote: I'm working on the theory that massive objects will "pull" a ship out of Hyperspace. Since momentum must be conserved, you'd be hitting the object at a very high velocity. This is the reason for my opinion that old or inaccurate charts are dangerous. The Hyperspace beacons are to take into account the fact that stars move, drifting according to their proper motion. Why must momentum be conserved when entering/exiting a separate dimension? Even if so why not enter or exit at slow speed? Instead of creating a portal and having to move through it why couldn't hyperspace pull a ship into it while stationary or just replace the volume of realspace the ship was in with a volume of hyper-ether-whatever? because the ships themselves are not traveling at FTL but some aspect of traveling through the hyperspace dimension lets you travel a vastly greater corresponding distance on the prime material plane. i think that the Plane of Shadow already has an effect like this Pathfinder, in 3.5 there was a prestige class that allowed skimming across the planar boundries to "almost instant" teleport in a similar manner and you would pop out as if you had not accelerated at all, technically thanks to the way actions work you would skim at near light speed and then come to a complete stop.
Odraude wrote: There's always been something that bothered me about FTL ships but no FTL communication. If you had sensors that can scan parsecs of areas, then those sensors would have to be using energy waves that are FTL to cross those gulfs of space and return quickly for use. So with that technology in existence, why couldn't there be FTL communication? The thing is in Traveller... you didn't. So Jumping always involved pretty much going blind into unknown hazards. Which made Traveller very muchy like overland adventures in D+D. I think it's a fair assumption that Starfinder will operate the same way.
John Napier 698 wrote: Odraude wrote: I suppose that's fair. I've done a lot of space game setting building since sci fi has always been my first love over fantasy. And I've set up how planetary invasions work in a setting where there is no FTL communication. Stellar System Defense would work like forts on the borderlands in fantasy. You'd have several sensor arrays in the Oort Cloud or even in the heliopause of the system (in my game, FTL stops working just at the heliopause) that can detect FTL signatures. You'd probably have some space stations out there patrolling, but it'd be like the s$!$ duty. I think you'd only really start seeing the defensible positions passed the Oort Cloud since the home system can mobilize easily. Granted, this is assuming a very civilized core world of an empire, or a capital world. Frontier worlds wouldn't be developed enough to have a good defensive position.
I'm a bit excited for Starfinder as you can see.
Which is why, in Traveller, the Imperial Navy would do regular patrols. Even if said patrols are just a pair of corvette (the ship, not the car) sized ships. That's the thing about MegaTraveller... with the Imperium coming apart due to civil war, Unless you were in the Core areas, things could vary quite a bit... especially in the areas of the Frontier where posession of systems can vary greatly... or simply the simple loss of Imperial enforcement when a Dulinor, a Margaret, or Lucan simply decides he needs those ships for a war in another sector.
Torbyne wrote:
Why must momentum be conserved when entering/exiting a separate dimension? Even if so why not enter or exit at slow speed? Instead of creating a portal and having to move through it why couldn't hyperspace pull a ship into it while stationary or just replace the volume of realspace the ship was in with a volume of hyper-ether-whatever? because the ships themselves are not traveling at FTL but some aspect of traveling through the hyperspace dimension lets you travel a vastly greater corresponding distance on the prime material plane. i think that the Plane of Shadow already has an effect like this Pathfinder, in 3.5 there was a prestige class that allowed skimming across the planar boundries to "almost instant" teleport in a similar manner and you would pop out as if you had not accelerated at all, technically thanks to the way actions work you would skim at near light speed and then come to a complete stop. Well, first of all, the laws of physics in realspace must still be observed.
Two, Certain science fiction settings require a ship to accelerate to near-lightspeed in order to transition to Hyperspace.
Three, While a ship can indeed go FTL while stationary, this is not strictly travel via Hyperdrive. It is more like using Traveller's Jump Drive.
Lastly, while instantaneous teleportation of starships does have its appeal, I'm unfamiliar with any settings that use it. Could you provide references or novel titles so that I may read up on the concept?
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
That's the thing about MegaTraveller... with the Imperium coming apart due to civil war, Unless you were in the Core areas, things could vary quite a bit... especially in the areas of the Frontier where posession of systems can vary greatly... or simply the simple loss of Imperial enforcement when a Dulinor, a Margaret, or Lucan simply decides he needs those ships for a war in another sector.
True enough. All of those lawless regions were a goldmine for smugglers and pirates / privateers.
John Napier 698 wrote: Torbyne wrote:
Why must momentum be conserved when entering/exiting a separate dimension? Even if so why not enter or exit at slow speed? Instead of creating a portal and having to move through it why couldn't hyperspace pull a ship into it while stationary or just replace the volume of realspace the ship was in with a volume of hyper-ether-whatever? because the ships themselves are not traveling at FTL but some aspect of traveling through the hyperspace dimension lets you travel a vastly greater corresponding distance on the prime material plane. i think that the Plane of Shadow already has an effect like this Pathfinder, in 3.5 there was a prestige class that allowed skimming across the planar boundries to "almost instant" teleport in a similar manner and you would pop out as if you had not accelerated at all, technically thanks to the way actions work you would skim at near light speed and then come to a complete stop. Well, first of all, the laws of physics in realspace must still be observed.
Until they get in the way of story or the game. Anyone who thinks that Firefly, Star Trek, or any other hot scifi tv/movie venue sticks that strictly to physics is in for a rude awakening.
John Napier 698 wrote:
Lastly, while instantaneous teleportation of starships does have its appeal, I'm unfamiliar with any settings that use it. Could you provide references or novel titles so that I may read up on the concept?
Dragonstar used Teleport Spheres and permanent gates, to enable their ships to jump from one spot to another. Those jumps however used up charges depending on the size of the ship, and when the Spheres ran out, they had to be replaced with the astronav computer as one unit. Dragonstar was based on D+D 3.0 when charged item recharges were a no-no.
Sure, Real world physics must be maintained... until we learn a way around them. Almost all sci-fi has initial dampeners of some kind, or as i like to think of them, "Anti-Crew Salsa Devices"
to you two and three, FTL works to what the setting needs. Even Star Trek has changed what warp speed is to work in the story better. Traveller jump Drives might just as well be Hyperspace, as far as i understand it they create a pocket universe around the ship that eventually implodes and drops the ship back into the regular universe. I am not sure about things like Battlestar Galactica but they have had plenty of jumps that looked to be at a stand still. The big jump into a gravity well and free falling seemed to be at a stop too (falling being a separate effect).
The Ender series includes instantaneous FTL in the later books, again by throwing a ship outside of the real universe and popping it back in at a different point.
i think most Sci-Fi keeps travel times vague when moving FTL, no matter how they achieve it.
The idea of "jumping" to warp or hyperspace of any other form of FTL itself is a nod to momentum and how in our current understanding of physics you cant actually accelerate to FTL speeds so you have to jump past the barrier without accelerating anyways.
If it was just finding a way to accelerate really fast in normal space you would effectively be slamming your ship into an infinitely thick wall of super dense hydrogen, if we are hand waving this away than dealing with momentum and conservation of energy seems a lot simpler.
Oh, and Stargate, i forgot about instantaneous travel in Stargate. they used both ship sized insa-gating and hyperspace that didnt conserve momentum with ships dropping out of hyperspace at a full stop all the time.
In Traveller the difference in momentum when teleporting from one location to another was converted to heat. Every other venue simply ignored it for the most part.
So unless a psi using teleport wore a special compensator, he would literally cook himself teleporting from space to ground.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote: In Traveller the difference in momentum when teleporting from one location to another was converted to heat. Every other venue simply ignored it for the most part.
So unless a psi using teleport wore a special compensator, he would literally cook himself teleporting from space to ground.
Cool! could you balefully Psi-port enemies? i have the Mongoose 2nd ed books and i dont think they model that anymore, its just a very high point cost to teleport across large distances.
Torbyne wrote: Even Star Trek has changed what warp speed is to work in the story better. To be more accurate, Star Trek has never been consistent even within a given series as to how Warp Speed Factors translate. Apparently high warp speed close to a sun is a staggeringly slow crawl. :)
Whereas Warp One in deep space is a LOT faster than one x the speed of light.
John Napier 698 wrote: Torbyne wrote:
Why must momentum be conserved when entering/exiting a separate dimension? Even if so why not enter or exit at slow speed? Instead of creating a portal and having to move through it why couldn't hyperspace pull a ship into it while stationary or just replace the volume of realspace the ship was in with a volume of hyper-ether-whatever? because the ships themselves are not traveling at FTL but some aspect of traveling through the hyperspace dimension lets you travel a vastly greater corresponding distance on the prime material plane. i think that the Plane of Shadow already has an effect like this Pathfinder, in 3.5 there was a prestige class that allowed skimming across the planar boundries to "almost instant" teleport in a similar manner and you would pop out as if you had not accelerated at all, technically thanks to the way actions work you would skim at near light speed and then come to a complete stop. Well, first of all, the laws of physics in realspace must still be observed.
Two, Certain science fiction settings require a ship to accelerate to near-lightspeed in order to transition to Hyperspace.
Three, While a ship can indeed go FTL while stationary, this is not strictly travel via Hyperdrive. It is more like using Traveller's Jump Drive.
Lastly, while instantaneous teleportation of starships does have its appeal, I'm unfamiliar with any settings that use it. Could you provide references or novel titles so that I may read up on the concept? The laws of physics in realspace must be observed, but whatever your FTL gimmick, it's a way of breaking those laws. So you can make the interface work however you want in your setting. Which could be "mass in realspace pulls you out of hyperspace at a high speed", if you want it to work like that.
But there's no real "conservation of momentum" going on here. Your momentum in hyperspace doesn't have to have anything to do with your momentum when you come out. It's hard to conceive how it would, really. What's the momentum of a ship in some other space that's crossing light years in minutes? It can't be going that speed when it's forced back into realspace.
Of course, if you can actually come out of hyperspace going near lightspeed, that itself has serious consequences. Planet killing ones.
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Little FTL lesson here.
The reason the Alcubierre Effect or warping space is interesting is that the speed of light limit ONLY applies to an object traveling in space.
There absolutely is no limit to the speed of space itself, which is why objects over a certain distance from us are receding faster than the speed of light, which means we will never observe them.. because the information traveling from them is traveling slower than the space is accelerating it away from us.
The reason the Big Rip will occur is that eventually in the FAR FAR FAR FAR Future, the differences in the velocity of space will exist measurably within groups, then objects, and finally particles... ripping them apart.
The other implication is that because the accleration of the universe is expanding.. the limit of the observable universe will shrink.
Eventually our descendants of billions of years, will laugh at the thought that the Universe existed beyond the single galaxy that is the combined remmnant of the Milky Way and Adromeda.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote: Little FTL lesson here.
The reason the Alcubierre Effect or warping space is interesting is that the speed of light limit ONLY applies to an object traveling in space.
There absolutely is no limit to the speed of space itself, which is why objects over a certain distance from us are receding faster than the speed of light, which means we will never observe them.. because the information traveling from them is traveling slower than the space is accelerating it away from us.
The reason the Big Rip will occur is that eventually in the FAR FAR FAR FAR Future, the differences in the velocity of space will exist measurably within groups, then objects, and finally particles... ripping them apart.
You know, i find the tragically inescapable death of the universe so... romantic :)
But deep down i know we will bounce a gaviton particle beam off the main deflector dish and save the universe at the last nano-second.
All valid and equally interesting points of view. However, I can only discuss what I know or have (game) experience with, mainly Traveller.
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Torbyne wrote: we will bounce a gaviton particle beam off the main deflector dish Because everyone knows that "we make s**t up as we wish." :)
basically all FTL are made up story telling devices and they can work however you want them too. because so many on this, a sci-fantasy forum, are avid fans of the genre we all have some preconceived notions on what it could look like but it doesnt have to follow any of that.
god, it could be that anything entering hyperspace appears as an infinitely large elevator with accompanying music until you exit hyperspace and find yourself back on your ship except for the muzac stuck in your head.
lets hope they use some of the more established tropes though.
Torbyne wrote: basically all FTL are made up story telling devices and they can work however you want them too. because so many on this, a sci-fantasy forum, are avid fans of the genre we all have some preconceived notions on what it could look like but it doesnt have to follow any of that.
god, it could be that anything entering hyperspace appears as an infinitely large elevator with accompanying music until you exit hyperspace and find yourself back on your ship except for the muzac stuck in your head.
lets hope they use some of the more established tropes though.
I really don't care one whit what "trope" they use... Just as long as there's a good game and story you can make with it.
*Shudder* A week's worth of Elevator Music? Please God, No! Make it STOP!!!.
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John Napier 698 wrote: *Shudder* A week's worth of Elevator Music? Please God, No! Make it STOP!!!. There's a reason why the Traveller Space Merchant's Guide mentions the need for some level of entertainment on board ship, Elvis be Praised.
imagine a prison that just holds the galaxy's most dangerous in the hyperspace elevator...
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