In my PFS group people are unhappy that Im not getting into melee with my Sorcerer, Bard, or other support type characters. So I thought about making something like a Fighter. But no, wait, how about something like a heavy shield attacker as people say I am "turtling".
1 I know several feats, most crucially Two-weapon Fighting to allow a light shield to be used as an off-hand weapon for Full Attack actions for a -2 penalty. Another is Improved Shield Bash, which is crucial as it allows you to benefit from using shields as weapons and still receiving the bonus. Shield Master is a major feat for dual wielding a shield but comes rather late to be useful.
2 I have a reliable series of character choices using a Half-orc to make a well rounded and tough character. Humans are useful but I prefer the combined bonus feats of the Half-orc as opposed to one feat a Human gets.
3 Class choice a Fighter would be my first thought, but which kind? My two greatest problems using a Fighter are the obvious, no magic and no skills. a Vigilante of the Avenger specialization has far more skills points but doesnt get armor training. That can be partially solved by using Mithril armors and sticking to a breastplate rather than a full plate armor.
4 In Terms of equipment I have some ideas from basic things to. Start out with either a Heavy Spiked Shield for offense and defense or a one-handed weapon and a Light shield to dual wield. Amulet of natural Armor, Ring of Protection, and Cloak of Resistance are pretty basic.
I thought I saw somewhere from a feat that you can use two shields and get the benefit from both to your AC?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A variation of a good sword and shield build would be a daring champion or a swashbuckler. You could have a solid actually, do decent damage with the damage boost. A modest amount of skills and take a trait to get umd so you have some magic utility
First off, you shouldn't be expected to wade into melee with a Sorcerer or Bard. Sorcs usually lack the AC to do so, and most Bards I've seen aren't great in the damage output department to begin with. And even the STR-based Bards start to pale around level 6-7 or so, so don't feel obligated to stand in the frontline if you have better things to do, lack the AC or HP, or simply aren't good at hitting stuff.
A Slayer is arguably better than a Fighter for TWF. The Slayer can skip feat prerequisites, gets way more skill ranks, and can get some pretty cool Slayer talents. Your damage will be slightly lower than that of a fighter because of Weapon Training (and Weapon Specialisation), but that's compensated for by Studied Target and the occasional Sneak Attack. But the biggest bonus is that you'll get Shield Master much earlier. If you want magic, Ranger does the trick as well, though I'm personally not a fan of situational bonuses.
There's the Shield-Trained trait that makes a heavy shield count as a light weapon, allowing you to up your AC by 1 without too much of a hassle. You need to be a fan of Gorum, though.
I'll be focusing on the Slayer for now, as that's my suggestion. Yeah, it misses out on armor training, but I don't think that's too much of a miss. Slayers don't get heavy armour proficiency, but that's solved by 1 rank in Fighter or by taking it as a feat.
As I said, the main draw of the Slayer is skipping prerequisites. You can leave your DEX at 12 or 14 and still qualify for all the cool TWF and shield feats. Alternatively, you could invest slightly in it and get other feats earlier as well. For example, with a stat spread like 16/15/14/10/12/7 you can take TWF at level 1, Shield Slam at level 2, Improved Shield Bash at 3, and Shield Master at 6. With these stats you still have enough skill points, and you haven't tanked your WIS, so you might still be able to make some saving throws. After that, your base is pretty much set and you can do whatever you want. At level 5 you can take Heavy Armour Proficiency, or Iron Will if you really care about your Will saves. So, with your build determined until level 6, you still have 5 levels left you can do with whatever you want. Or maybe Double Slice, but that won't matter a whole lot in the overall damage output (though I like it because it keeps math easier). I'd personally stay Slayer until level 7, so you get Study as a swift action, but then you're free to multiclass however you want. you can even take 4 more levels of Fighter for Weapon Specialisation if you want to up your damage output. Level 7 could be Improved Two-Weapon Fighting once you get iteratives.
Do note, though, Shield Master only works if it's not spiked. I've seen several discussions about how to circumvent it, and the consensus is you don't. The feat clearly calls out it works on your shield's enhancement bonus, but shield spikes are enchanted as a weapon, and you attack with them, not your shield. So either ditch the spiked shield when you hit level 6, or fight without shield spikes. It's only 1 die increase anyway, it won't matter a lot. You'll gain much more damage output from the static bonuses from your STR and shield enhancements anyway.
EDIT: I've left out Power Attack, since you're already taking penalties to your to-hit. It does help in the damage department, though, and at level 6 you don't take penalties with your shield attacks, so it might be worth it.
|
1 The best way to accomplish this is Ranger, or Slayer not fighter. You are better off with a tower shield if your going fighter.
2 It dose not make that much of a difference for fighters because of the bonus feat's. It makes a big difference for feat starved classes.
3 Your best options other then Fighter is Ranger, or Slayer. This is do to bypassing requirements with Ranger Combat Style Feat's.
4 If your going with fighter take the exotic weapon Falcata. This is the best one handed weapon for damage. If your going Ranger, or Slayer heavy shield with a light martial weapon. Starting with a kukri, and spiked heavy shield. Then at level 6 trading up to a scimitar, and spiked heavy shield. After you get shield master with your ranger combat style feat.
5 Alike bonus do not stack. So you many not benefit from two shield bonuses at the same time. You only get the better of the two.
The type of AC bonuses you need to look at are.
Armor
Shield
Dex
Deflection
Natural
Dodge (This is the exception to the rule all dodge bonuses stack.)
Insight
First off, you shouldn't be expected to wade into melee with a Sorcerer or Bard. Sorcs usually lack the AC to do so, and most Bards I've seen aren't great in the damage output department to begin with. And even the STR-based Bards start to pale around level 6-7 or so, so don't feel obligated to stand in the frontline if you have better things to do, lack the AC or HP, or simply aren't good at hitting stuff.
I wasnt clear enough? Its an ironic build to counter the complaints that Im not being in physical combat with my non-physical characters. So a "Snapping Turtle" character. However rather than just be a joke, make it actually effective.
Yes Slayer does seem pretty decent. The Sword and and Shield ranger combat style feats at level 2, 6, and 10 allow higher level feats much lower. Shield Slam is 4 levels earlier. Shield Master is 5 levels earlier.
Vigilante is still interesting. It isnt able to skip requirements but Avenger and Social Talents have significant options like Mad Rush.
Bards could wade into melee, but they're fragile, with 3/4 BAB, D8 hit dice, crappy armor, and so on. They also have more support features than offensive features, so...
Sorcerers going into melee is outright stupid, with no armor, D6 hit dice, 1/2 BAB...I mean come on; that's what Bloodragers are for, if you want a melee sorcerer, roll one of those up. People have ridiculous expectations it seems...
1. The problem with going Fighter is that, sure, you get bonus feats, but you can't circumvent the extensive feat requirements. Rangers and Slayers can, though. As neat of features as Fighters have recently received, planning something like a Shield Martial requires a lot of time and patience, something which PFS doesn't let you really have (and that really sucks). Rangers do offer spellcasting and favored enemy/terrain, but Slayers can have about just as much bonus feats as a typical Fighter, plus have Studied Target, Sneak Attack, and so on. Both classes also offer good Fortitude and Reflex Saves, as well as 6 Skill Points/level, and better class skills.
2. Half Orcs, as far as I know, don't offer any sort of bonus feat. They have Sacred Tattoo, and some other neat stuff, but no bonus feats. Humans offer one, but if you really don't want a bonus feat, tacking on an extra +2 to an attribute of your choice (in addition to the base +2 you normally get) is probably worth that extra feat (and skill point). Half Elves can offer a +2 to all Will Saves, which is always nice, and 2 favored classes as well. Any of these choices are solid.
3. As I've said in 1, Slayer or Ranger will be better for getting access to your big feats sooner, since ignoring pre-requisites (including BAB pre-requisites) is a feature that Fighters wish they could replicate, but cannot. Fighters do get more feats, but also lack skill points, saving throws, and other interesting features that Slayers and Rangers provide. As nice as it would be to just simply be a Fighter, Slayers and Rangers will get you what you want, and sooner than normal.
4. This ultimately depends on what your fighting style will be. If you plan on TWFing, using two shields isn't a bad idea, and synergizes with your Shield Master feat immensely (no TWF penalties is huge). Two Light Shields will let you hold stuff in those hands, but you do have 1 less AC because of it; in that sense, it's a fair trade. Bonus points if you become Dexterity-based and pick up Agile Light Shields and Weapon Finesse, as you become extremely MAD. (If it wasn't PFS, I'd consider a 4 level dip in UCRogue with archetypes for the free Dex to Damage options, as well as Sneak Attack, Debilitating Injury, and Talents, all at the cost of 1 BAB, and a delaying of the good stuff.)
Otherwise, simply taking a Heavy Shield and two-handing it means you don't have to worry too much about Dexterity, and you can pump your Strength and Constitution into the atmosphere; you're also less feat-intensive, meaning you can spend feats on other unique and interesting things, since your bonus feats and picking up Power Attack and Improved Shield Bash will cover all of your required needs (and sooner).
True, and as i said a variation of a sword and board build...as in instead of using the shield as a weapon...just have the sword hit even harder. In this case add your level to the weapon's damage to offset the second weapon (and then challenge on top)
As a quick idea (by no means in depth was just goofing around)
Human cavalier (daring champion) 6
Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 58 (6d10+18)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee rapier +10/+5 (1d6+4/18-20+6 Precision)
Special Attacks banner +2, challenge 2/day (+6 damage, +2 dam while only you threaten), panache (2), precise strike, tactician 2/day (Outflank, 6 rds)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +6; CMB +10; CMD 21
Feats Dazzling Display, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Iron Will, Outflank[APG], Power Attack, Shadow Strike[APG], Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Step Up
Traits dangerously curious, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -6 (-10 to jump), Bluff +10, Climb +1, Diplomacy +10, Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +11, Ride -2, Sense Motive +9, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Common
SQ braggart, champion's finesse, order of the cockatrice, swashbuckler initiative
Other Gear full plate, buckler, rapier, 130 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Banner +2/+1 (Ex) Allies who can see your banner gain +2 save vs. fear & +1 to hit while charging.
Braggart (Ex) Demoralize as a standard action, +2 to hit demoralized targets.
Champion's Finesse At 1st level, a daring champion gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and he can use Charisma in place of Intelligence for the purpose of combat feats prerequisites. A daring champion also coun
Cockatrice's Challenge +6 (2/day) (Ex) +6 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, +2 damage when you are the only one threatening the target.
Dazzling Display Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Deed: Precise Strike +6 (Ex) While 1 panache, bonus to att/dam with light/one-hand piercing weapon.
Deed: Swashbuckler Initiative (Ex) While have Panache, free hand draws light or 1-hand pierce wep as part of the init roll.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shadow Strike You can deal precision damage against targets with some concealment.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Tactician (Outflank, 6 rds, 2/day) (Ex) Grant the use of your teamwork feats to all allies in 30 ft.
I would recommend a Buckler most of the time as it doesnt prevent you from using your hand for anything for spells, two-handed or two-weapon style and you can actively choose whether you want to use that shield or not.
Even a two-weapon fighting style doesnt have much reason to not have a Buckler in your off-hand for situations where you are not making a full-attack action using your off-hand. If you could Shield Bash with a Buckler(Thunderstriker archetype Fighter allows that) then you would have the best of both worlds.
Too many feats to make two-weapon fighting style comparably effective and even more to use shields. I dont think you could even make it profitable for all the feats you require. Any two-weapon build has the key flaw in that its only useful so long as you can make full-attacks, so you need Pounce or something like it.
Bottom line Is a shield style worth it? I dont think so. Yep I just explained how my thread idea was impractical.
One of my favorite TWF classes is Warpriest. Most 3/4 BAB classes can't really TWF well, but level = BAB for bonus feats let Warpriests pick up TWF feats easier. Plus fervor can work without a spare hand.
You'll still need to balance DEX and STR, but I believe that isn't too detrimental and works well.