Mounted Character with a flying mount [Help]


Advice


I'm trying to make a character with a flying mount from level 1 or as early as possible.
My idea is to make a character who grew up with his AC and they have a very tight relationship, which is why they always fight together and as a single unit.
A character that will tease you from afar while still doing the highest possible damage and taunting the enemy every time he pass through them.

I'm trying to focus more on the melee side and someone who is always ready, despite having spells (if it has). So something like straight druid doesn't sound so interesting because you usually need couple rounds for buffing.

I've been looking and so far the best choices seem either a Cavalier or a Hunter.
Thing is Cavalier doesn't have much of a choice for mounts, they're all boring.
Hunter has some options but I couldn't find any flying one.
On the flying side, I'm a bit concerned about weight. I'm not really proficient on the subject but it seems that with my weight alone most flying mounts wouldn't be able to fly?

Race has either to be Small or I will have to pick up Undersized mount. The character idea is always with a mount at her side, no matter what, which makes Large mounts a problem in most dungeons.

The only big advantage I saw was that Ranger gets Mounted Skirmisher at level 10, which is 4 levels before anyone else.
Depending on the speed of the mount this could either be a huge bonus or something that could be cancelled by enemies reach.

So far I know I need:

Mounted Combat - Spirited Charge - Power Attack - Wheeling Charge - Mounted Skirmisher

I'm a bit confused about Ride by Attack and Flyby Attack. Do I need both to charge if I'm flying? Can I even charge ala Ride by Attack if I'm flying or is it not possible?

The idea of getting a flying mount is mostly to get around my allies because until Wheeling Charge I won't be able to charge if someone is on my line.

I've also read Geckos are great climbers, that could be another possibility, but my main issue is what happens when flying enter the game. Unless I can cast the spell myself I'll be really complicated to reach enemies.


problem is most flying mounts are magical animals so you will need something that lets you take a magical animal as an animal companion


Flyby Attack is an alternative to Ride-by Attack & Wheeling Charge, but it isn't a prerequisite to Spirited Charge. You have to get Ride-by Attack for that. You don't need Flyby in order to use Ride-by in the air, though if you're above a ground target it may be difficult to continue your charge in a straight line past the target; using Flyby alone avoids that problem but it can't help Ride-by, they use different actions.

The obvious flying mount is a roc. Yes, you'll want to read the weight tables even as a small character, though the ant haul spell could help a lot.


avr wrote:

Flyby Attack is an alternative to Ride-by Attack & Wheeling Charge, but it isn't a prerequisite to Spirited Charge. You have to get Ride-by Attack for that. You don't need Flyby in order to use Ride-by in the air, though if you're above a ground target it may be difficult to continue your charge in a straight line past the target; using Flyby alone avoids that problem but it can't help Ride-by, they use different actions.

The obvious flying mount is a roc. Yes, you'll want to read the weight tables even as a small character, though the ant haul spell could help a lot.

Mostly curious because Flyby attack doesn't state that you don't provoke AoO from your opponent. Also it doesn't mention charge, which is a full round action. So this feat only allows you to attack with a Standard Action, it could be Vital Strike for example, but charge seems to be out of the question.

Also, unless I'm using something with Reach, I'll be eating AoO a lot.


Druid with Roc companion. has to be a small race, but works perfectly fine.

The other option isn't melee, but i find tremendously fun.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---a lchemist-archetypes/winged-marauder-alchemist-archetype

What could be better than being a cackling goblin on top of your own bat, raining death down upon your enemies?


Letric wrote:
avr wrote:

Flyby Attack is an alternative to Ride-by Attack & Wheeling Charge, but it isn't a prerequisite to Spirited Charge. You have to get Ride-by Attack for that. You don't need Flyby in order to use Ride-by in the air, though if you're above a ground target it may be difficult to continue your charge in a straight line past the target; using Flyby alone avoids that problem but it can't help Ride-by, they use different actions.

The obvious flying mount is a roc. Yes, you'll want to read the weight tables even as a small character, though the ant haul spell could help a lot.

Mostly curious because Flyby attack doesn't state that you don't provoke AoO from your opponent. Also it doesn't mention charge, which is a full round action. So this feat only allows you to attack with a Standard Action, it could be Vital Strike for example, but charge seems to be out of the question.

Also, unless I'm using something with Reach, I'll be eating AoO a lot.

A lance is your basic mounted weapon. It has reach.

Flyby is limited, but it also only costs one feat rather than the whole mounted combat tree. It's there to let dragons strafe their enemies with breath weapons I think.


Weables wrote:

A lance is your basic mounted weapon. It has reach.

Flyby is limited, but it also only costs one feat rather than the whole mounted combat tree. It's there to let dragons strafe their enemies with breath weapons I think.

I think my only realistic option is going Gecko (for the climbing as spider climb spell) and find ways to enhance its speed.

I'd also have to find a way to grant my mount flying in a semi-permanent, but I have no idea how to do that honestly.

And finally need a way to avoid my stupid allies that will be on my way when I try to charge.

I'm not sure whether going the Charge way is the best way, but I can't think of any other method that takes advantage of a mount.


Getting reliable flight is purposefully difficult, because it's pretty powerful.

Your animal companion gets feats. Have it take Improved Unarmed Strike (tax), then Feral Combat Training, then Dragon Style. Now it can charge through allies and difficult terrain.

Silver Crusade

Animal companion options.
Dinosaur (Pteranodon)
Dire Bat
Pterosaur (Quetzalcoatlus)
Roc
Vulture, Giant
Yolubilis Heron (My best suggestion)

Flying mounts don't do well underground. Depending on the type of game your playing in. This can have a large impact on your character.

My best suggestion with out knowing what kind of game your playing.
Halfling Hunter
Animal Companion: Lizard (Giant Gecko)
You can cast Air Walk at level 4 spell. And Air Walk Communal at level 5 spell.

If your allowed 3rd party material. However I tend to side with what ever makes for a cool story. More so then following the rules. The rules are guide lines.
Draconic Companion Handbook by Everyman Gaming


Maybe a giant wasp. Not sure if it's strength is high enough


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1. A familiar with mauler archetype for a small character is a great mount.
2. Mantis is also nice.

Grand Lodge

Letric wrote:
Weables wrote:

A lance is your basic mounted weapon. It has reach.

Flyby is limited, but it also only costs one feat rather than the whole mounted combat tree. It's there to let dragons strafe their enemies with breath weapons I think.

I think my only realistic option is going Gecko (for the climbing as spider climb spell) and find ways to enhance its speed.

I'd also have to find a way to grant my mount flying in a semi-permanent, but I have no idea how to do that honestly.

And finally need a way to avoid my stupid allies that will be on my way when I try to charge.

I'm not sure whether going the Charge way is the best way, but I can't think of any other method that takes advantage of a mount.

Gecko is great choice. Charges can be done from the walls/ceilings. They are dirt cheap to buy war trained too if you get a delayed AC/mount. Beastmaster Ranger comes to mind as a martial class with access to all the druid AC list.

You are correct by RaW Cavilier and paladin neither offer good flying mount choices.

I'm not a fan of a druid or hunter class for a mounted lancer build. Lower BaB hurts as well as feat starved. There is not lots of Teamwork feats that are great lancing. Escape route yes but after that teamwork feats sizzle out.

Something I did not see mentioned is wild child Brawler. It is an option.

I recommend being Halfling for later Risky Striker damage buff. Or Monkey Goblins which does not have -2 str but is still small.


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Monstrous Mount and Monstrous Mount Mastery feats give you a flying Griffon at 5 and let you ride him while flying at 7. I highly recommend the Narrow Frame feat for any Large mount.


Do you need to be fying in a DOWNWARTH path to activate this skill, or is it enough that the animal FLIES & charges (ie at ground level) ?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/death-from-above-combat

If the character gets it it would replace the +1 from mounted and the +2 from charge (sum =+3) to a +5 a net 2 gain.

It prereq free feat meaning its easy to give to the animal companion as well.


I am going to suggest hunter for the 1st 4 levels, you can get a flying mount at level one if you want and with teamwork feats you can overcome your low Bab problems. Feat suggestions (combat expertise [feat tax], outflank, pack flanking, and escape route). So at 4th level when mounted you will not provoke attacks of opportunity from movement and attack with +4 to hit. You will have the ability to cast lead blades on your lance and put your animal focus into strength. Plus you get some other good spells too.

After 4th level you can go in a number of different directions and start picking up your mounted combat feats.

Also, I am going suggest gnome because they are flavorful and can get darkvision or cool spell like abilities.

I can envision a gnome bat rider flying around telling everyone, "I'm batman."


Kris Verschaeve wrote:

Do you need to be fying in a DOWNWARTH path to activate this skill, or is it enough that the animal FLIES & charges (ie at ground level) ?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/death-from-above-combat

If the character gets it it would replace the +1 from mounted and the +2 from charge (sum =+3) to a +5 a net 2 gain.

It prereq free feat meaning its easy to give to the animal companion as well.

The feat specifically says "or from above while flying" rather than just "or while flying," so yes, you do need to be charging downwards.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Kris Verschaeve wrote:

Do you need to be fying in a DOWNWARTH path to activate this skill, or is it enough that the animal FLIES & charges (ie at ground level) ?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/death-from-above-combat

If the character gets it it would replace the +1 from mounted and the +2 from charge (sum =+3) to a +5 a net 2 gain.

It prereq free feat meaning its easy to give to the animal companion as well.

The feat specifically says "or from above while flying" rather than just "or while flying," so yes, you do need to be charging downwards.

And there is no way that you can go up and down in the same charge is there ?


Not unless you have something special to get around the rule that charging must be in a straight line. There are one or two things that let you make a 90-degree turn in the middle; the one I can think of offhand is Charging Stag Style. It requires the user to be unmounted, so your mount would have to be the one to take it. Has several prereqs, but will also let your mount charge through difficult terrain and allies for those times you're grounded.


There is also Wheeling Charge

Grand Lodge

Abraham Z. wrote:
There is also Wheeling Charge

90 degree turn not 180. Plus fly rules.

I like the feat and use it on my mounts that run.

On a flying mount you would want Wing Over for the 180 turn but the still does not allow you to fly vertically and charge.


I think you can charge downwards in a straight line, changing elevation just costs movement (its still in a straight line). Sort of like charging uphill costs extra movement or am I missing something.

Grand Lodge

G-unit wrote:
I think you can charge downwards in a straight line, changing elevation just costs movement (its still in a straight line). Sort of like charging uphill costs extra movement or am I missing something.

It can descend at any angle without any restriction to speed but to go up:

Fly Skill wrote:
can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees

So the mount is hardly going to doing vertical ups and downs. It can go up at 45 degrees then Charge/Swoop in at any angle downward However.


That makes sense, now I see what you were saying.


I have seen a build for using a Giant Mantis for a mount. It sounded good esp for a small character. Try googling it if interested.

Grand Lodge

Joynt Jezebel wrote:
I have seen a build for using a Giant Mantis for a mount. It sounded good esp for a small character. Try googling it if interested.

Mantis is very good for a small character to ride.

It is just having access to the creature as a companion built into your class.

I however prefer the Mantis on a Hunter build. Hunter goes Reach/Trip while the Mantis (grown version) Has Reach and Lunge with a Grab and Sudden Strike abilities. So in tandem they do the whole nasty Pack Flanking/Broken Wing Gambit/Coordinated Maneuvers/Seize the Moment AoO blender. It is very good board control.

When your mounted lancing the Mantis offers the Movement but hardly does the mount actually attack. Which is kind of wasted for such a decent attacker like a Mantis.

You also run into the issue of Mindless with the Mantis. Which is a drawback when building your Mantis. I always go human and Alternative Racial in the +2 int to the Mantis and getting it to 3 INT by level 4.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Abraham Z. wrote:
There is also Wheeling Charge

90 degree turn not 180. Plus fly rules.

I like the feat and use it on my mounts that run.

On a flying mount you would want Wing Over for the 180 turn but the still does not allow you to fly vertically and charge.

Climb at 45 degrees and then descend at 45 degrees. Wouldn't that work?

Grand Lodge

Abraham Z. wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Abraham Z. wrote:
There is also Wheeling Charge

90 degree turn not 180. Plus fly rules.

I like the feat and use it on my mounts that run.

On a flying mount you would want Wing Over for the 180 turn but the still does not allow you to fly vertically and charge.

Climb at 45 degrees and then descend at 45 degrees. Wouldn't that work?

The problem is the Charge rules.

charge wrote:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.

Since the 45 degree climb halves (Slows) your speed you can not charge if you go up in the same round.

Plus is it really a straight line to Go upwards then downwards?
You basically have to Ascend then following round Swoop charge down then get back up into the air for the next charge.

Or you can just try to stay 10ft in the air and fly straight trying to lance as you go overhead. Your still needing the Wingover to Turn 180 for the following round charge.

Where on say a Gecko you just charge in, Ride by, Wheeling charge the 90 turn to line up for next target...then Charge again next round. A lot more charging can be done.

Flying mounts make it easier for dungeon diving and staying on your mount not worried about cliffs/caverns and other environmental challenges a Ground Bound mount struggles with.

But as a Player IMHO Giant Gecko is one of the BEST mounts in the game due to its ability to adapt to the environment. On a Cavalier its not as good due to other mounts having a higher STR for that Order of the Sword Optimized charge. But if your playing a class/build that doesn't care what the mount's str is then Gecko is a very powerful.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


You also run into the issue of Mindless with the Mantis. Which is a drawback when building your Mantis. I always go human and Alternative Racial in the +2 int to the Mantis and getting it to 3 INT by level 4.

That was one of the things the aforementioned guide suggested. If it has no mind you can't teach it tricks if I recall correctly.

Grand Lodge

Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


You also run into the issue of Mindless with the Mantis. Which is a drawback when building your Mantis. I always go human and Alternative Racial in the +2 int to the Mantis and getting it to 3 INT by level 4.
That was one of the things the aforementioned guide suggested. If it has no mind you can't teach it tricks if I recall correctly.

Also have trouble of Teaching it ANY feats or skills.

Quote:
Vermin companions have no Intelligence score and possess the mindless trait. In spite of this, vermin companions may learn one trick, plus additional bonus tricks as noted on Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics. If a vermin animal companion gains an ability score increase (at 4 Hit Dice, 8 Hit Dice, and so on), the druid can apply this increase to the companion's Intelligence, changing it from — to 1, at which point the companion loses the mindless quality and is able to know up to 3 tricks per point of Intelligence, plus the additional bonus tricks, as per Handle Animal. Vermin companions have no skill points or feats as long as they have the mindless quality.

It does offer the benefit of defenses of Mindless...but Feats are nice to have too.

You mention guides. I am actually in the Process of Writing a Mounted Lancer guide. I've only made it up to the Race section but one day hope to have the time to finish it.


We have several options:

Gecko > it seems I have to be at least Hunter 4 levels (or Inquisitor, though I do not gain Handle Animal this way) to get 2 TW Feats + Combat Expertise, which I need Outflank and Pack Flanking for that Sweet +4. I could neglect Outflank, entirely but still need Combat Expertise.
The advantage of Hunter is that I gain 2 TW Feats for free and I only need to take Combat Expertise when at level 4 I get Pack Flanking, plus the INT 13, which is the thing that hurts the most IMO, any way around this?

Flying Mount > Seems extremely hard to achieve and doesn't solve the problem of Hover and charging. Flying mounts are harder to charge with because of the Straight Line.

Cat/Another normal mount > I'll basically be another melee character subject to the same problems: terrain, moving screws my full attack. I'm not even sure if at level 7 when AC gains the Pounce ability and if with that I'd be able to do a full attack+full attack of my mount.

I'm worried about Armor and mount. If I'm not charging I need to be using the highest armor possible or else I'll be eating lots of attacks. But the heavier the armor the more STR my mount needs.

We usually play Campaign Modules. Right now it's Rise of the Runelords. We like rules, and have no restriction on books, as long as they're Paizo.
The only thing I don't see working is the Escape Route, because it's extremely cheese IMO and I censor myself when taking certain Feats/Combos.

I'd love the Bloodrage+Mauler Archetype combo, but I can't find a way to get something strong enough to carry me without Medium/Heavy Load, hence they can't fly.

I like charging, but I was looking for something that can be on the melee front without worrying about dying.
My idea was to carry 1 Spear on the initial charge, and once in melee range drop it and use a 2 handed weapon that I'd be holding on the other hand or just draw it from back. I'd only need Quick Draw once I get to the full attack part.
My main concern is movement. I know playing melee is hard on difficult terrain and I just want to get around that.

Flavor wise I was looking to have the same AC from level 1, because of story reasons. Someone I met and form a bond with. I'm even willing to go as far as to Raise that AC in case it dies, even though it costs money! But the idea is having a friend from level 1 to 20.
I like the Druid for that, because they have a strong bond with Nature, Ranger does too and so does Hunter.

Grand Lodge

Letric wrote:

We have several options:

Gecko > it seems I have to be at least Hunter 4 levels (or Inquisitor, though I do not gain Handle Animal this way) to get 2 TW Feats + Combat Expertise, which I need Outflank and Pack Flanking for that Sweet +4. I could neglect Outflank, entirely but still need Combat Expertise.
The advantage of Hunter is that I gain 2 TW Feats for free and I only need to take Combat Expertise when at level 4 I get Pack Flanking, plus the INT 13, which is the thing that hurts the most IMO, any way around this?

Flying Mount > Seems extremely hard to achieve and doesn't solve the problem of Hover and charging. Flying mounts are harder to charge with because of the Straight Line.

Cat/Another normal mount > I'll basically be another melee character subject to the same problems: terrain, moving screws my full attack. I'm not even sure if at level 7 when AC gains the Pounce ability and if with that I'd be able to do a full attack+full attack of my mount.

I'm worried about Armor and mount. If I'm not charging I need to be using the highest armor possible or else I'll be eating lots of attacks. But the heavier the armor the more STR my mount needs.

We usually play Campaign Modules. Right now it's Rise of the Runelords. We like rules, and have no restriction on books, as long as they're Paizo.
The only thing I don't see working is the Escape Route, because it's extremely cheese IMO and I censor myself when taking certain Feats/Combos.

I'd love the Bloodrage+Mauler Archetype combo, but I can't find a way to get something strong enough to carry me without Medium/Heavy Load, hence they can't fly.

I like charging, but I was looking for something that can be on the melee front without worrying about dying.
My idea was to carry 1 Spear on the initial charge, and once in melee range drop it and use a 2 handed weapon that I'd be holding on the other hand or just draw it from back. I'd only need Quick Draw once I get to the full attack part.
My main concern is movement. I know playing melee...

Hehe...ROTRL...I've played this AP twice fully through.

Its a classic AP that is very fun and challenging in places.

The way I set up my Ranger/Gecko combo was they protected each other.
The Rider Had Mounted Combat to negate attacks against the Mount.
The mount had Combat Reflexes and Body Guard to help the Rider with his AC.

The Ranger has Longstrider and Feather Step to help early levels with Difficult terrain. I used Potions of Fly and scrolls of Air Walk on my gecko when Flight was an issue. The potions for when someone could not use my scrolls of Air Walk. (Luckily book 4 you can find a Staff of Heaven and Earth and getting him in the air will be super easy.) You don't get your AC till level 4 but a war trained Gecko is 150gp. If your a Beastmaster Ranger 4 make it your companion. Then do not Worry about it dying too much...just buy a new one when it dies. At level 12 you get a Boon Companion like ability so it will then be equal to your HD.

I tend to not Dip Hunter or Take any hunter on Lancer builds. Pack flanking and all those fun feats are better when your fighting NEXT to the mount and not ON the mount. But if you really want to negate the 13 INT pre-req look at wild Child Brawler. Full AC list and some other goodies.

For Melee purposes if your dismount (tho not often) you can carry a longsword/Scimitar and quickdraw shield. Power attack and Other bonuses to damage should be a great help. But do not plan to be off your gecko often. Otherwise I have 2 hands on my lance and I'm zipping about killing most things. A longsword gets 2x damage on a spirit charge...Just FYI. Find yourself without a lance...Longsword can still be of use.

I highly recommend being Halfling. Power attack + Risky Striker + Big Game Hunter (Level 8+ RotRL feat). On top of Class abilities to add damage you will be killing things on most charges.

You can always BEG your DM to allow you to take a Gecko as a mount for other classes like Cavalier or Paladin. Home games have that benefit. I personally Want someone to let me Play a Horse Lord Cav with a Gecko/Forest Theme instead of Horse/Desert theme. Call it Gecko Lord lol. I love the Idea of a Scimitar Spirited charge.

As far as AC I thought the same thing but Went with Mammoth Hide for the +3d6 on a charge and Endure Elements to Cold. Will work well in RotRL. Your Goal is to Kill or Near kill anything you charge and you Ride By away from it so you do not get full attacked. If its still alive with 10 HP or so your team mates should finish cleaning up that target.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Lots of Stuff

I was looking at Wild Child, but you lack Martial Weapons, so no Lance.

Outflank+Pack Flanking is equivalent of a permanent +4 to hit, but unless I go Hunter or similar I cannot achieve so many feats, because I'd need Combat Expertise too.

If I were to go:

1* Wild Child 1 > Access to Cunning, ignoring 13 INT on Combat Expertise. Get AC at level 1.
Feat Mounted Combat
2* Ranger Beastmaster 1> 1st FEnemy - Track - Wild Empathy
3* Ranger Beastmaster 2> Bonus Feat Ride by Attack - Feat Spirited Charge
4* Ranger Beastmaster 3> +1 STR Endurance - 1st FTerrain
5* Ranger Beastmaster 4> Feat Big Game Huner - AC= Effective Druid level 1 + 1 from Wild Child = EDLevel 2

I'm getting an AC from level 1, negating the 13 INT requirement for Combat Expertise, and I will eventually get the Boon Companion at level 13.

What do you think about this? How will you continue? Is having -3 Levels on my AC a big deal?
This way I can chose a Gecko fro level 1, but it's going to be small, I'm pretty sure I can't ride it, right?

How do you deal stuff in dungeons? Most of the times there you can't charge, you just have to sit there and take the hits!

Grand Lodge

Letric wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Lots of Stuff

I was looking at Wild Child, but you lack Martial Weapons, so no Lance.

Outflank+Pack Flanking is equivalent of a permanent +4 to hit, but unless I go Hunter or similar I cannot achieve so many feats, because I'd need Combat Expertise too.

If I were to go:

1* Wild Child 1 > Access to Cunning, ignoring 13 INT on Combat Expertise. Get AC at level 1.
Feat Mounted Combat
2* Ranger Beastmaster 1> 1st FEnemy - Track - Wild Empathy
3* Ranger Beastmaster 2> Bonus Feat Ride by Attack - Feat Spirited Charge
4* Ranger Beastmaster 3> +1 STR Endurance - 1st FTerrain
5* Ranger Beastmaster 4> Feat Big Game Huner - AC= Effective Druid level 1 + 1 from Wild Child = EDLevel 2

I'm getting an AC from level 1, negating the 13 INT requirement for Combat Expertise, and I will eventually get the Boon Companion at level 13.

What do you think about this? How will you continue? Is having -3 Levels on my AC a big deal?
This way I can chose a Gecko fro level 1, but it's going to be small, I'm pretty sure I can't ride it, right?

How do you deal stuff in dungeons? Most of the times there you can't charge, you just have to sit there and take the hits!

How I rolled was with the 150gp Purchased Wartrained Gecko from the Animal Archive. It is the Medium sized and ready to go. Of Course I played PFS with my build so After 1 session I had a few hundred gold to spend. You could Get away with riding a purchased one for the first 5-6 Levels. If it dies...just buy another...or buy a male and female and Breed them. My gecko Lasted till Level 5 without Dying, mostly because the war trained one is 4 HD.

You are correct that typical the Gecko AC starts small then at 4 grows medium. In my PFS build I just went Beastmaster Ranger and at Level 5 I grabbed 1 level of Fighter for extra feat for Boon companion. I planned to retrain out of Boon companion (or fighter all together) at 12 when the class ability kicked in to give me built in Boon companion. You could go that route as well.

Before I pitch something I would like to know does your group allow retraining of feats and/or class level?

Also have you asked the GM this Question?

Mount/Divine Bond wrote:

Mount- The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.

Divine Bond- although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable.

Ask will he allow a Giant Gecko as your Mount/Divine bond since your a halfling? It is a suitable mount for sure.

Quote:
How do you deal stuff in dungeons? Most of the times there you can't charge, you just have to sit there and take the hits!

I charged along walls, My team Mates moved in a manner that kept charge lanes open, and if the ceiling is 10ft or lower you can lance from above upside down, since a Lance is a reach weapon. I rode my Gecko Everywhere.

In this Specific Campaign there are plenty of Opportunities to ride a gecko many places. The first 2 books will be the roughest..book 3+ everything opens up and you will have a ton of charging room. I recommend you grab power attack before Big game hunter...Big Game hunter is great level 8+ but before then will not come online much before then. Power attack+ Favored ENemy (or class damage boost smite/CHallenge ect) + Str + x2 lance damage is still impressive damage early game. (Levels 1-7).


Mauler Hawk familiar seems like a decent level 3+ option for Small PCs.

A Sylvan Sorcerer could also select a Roc companion for 1st level flying fun. Weird class dips like Dragoon Fighter 1 (lance, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus Ride) might make this guy more combat viable than folks would expect. Using Share Spells for True Strike could make the mount hit very consistently, and 1st level wands are pretty cheap. I guess the Giant Vulture might be better for that since it only has 1 natural attack (therefore more damage per hit).

If you could figure out a way to earn an AoO then Paired Opportunists could work really well and allow even a low to mid BAB PC to get in some hits (Broken Wing Gambit seems like the obvious method I guess)

A Huntmaster Cavalier with Undersized Mount might have some flying options at fairly low levels using a Bird familiar and Undersized Mount. Bodyguard and Mounted Combat could mutually boost your defenses. The Takedown ability could get pretty interesting, especially with Dirty Trick Master.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

How I rolled was with the 150gp Purchased Wartrained Gecko from the Animal Archive. It is the Medium sized and ready to go. Of Course I played PFS with my build so After 1 session I had a few hundred gold to spend. You could Get away with riding a purchased one for the first 5-6 Levels. If it dies...just buy another...or buy a male and female and Breed them. My gecko Lasted till Level 5 without Dying, mostly because the war trained one is 4 HD.

How did you even charge? You can't charge with a bought animal afaik, because commanding your mount is a move action.

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


You are correct that typical the Gecko AC starts small then at 4 grows medium. In my PFS build I just went Beastmaster Ranger and at Level 5 I grabbed 1 level of Fighter for extra feat for Boon companion. I planned to retrain out of Boon companion (or fighter all together) at 12 when the class ability kicked in to give me built in Boon...

My idea was having either a mount from level 1, or a baby that would grow at level 4. Because I wanted to have a close bond with my mount, like it's something special, not just some animal I use for profit.

The idea behind using Hunter is that they get access to Raise Companion, which kinda fits the idea that you won't leave your AC behind.

Another issue I've noticed is that unless I get a gecko, charging could be an issue. I was trying to consider a build that uses a mount but fights in the front lines, but I'm not sure how you could handle that.
Mostly because this way I'd be a front liner, but I think I'd potentially be too weak.

Grand Lodge

Letric wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

How I rolled was with the 150gp Purchased Wartrained Gecko from the Animal Archive. It is the Medium sized and ready to go. Of Course I played PFS with my build so After 1 session I had a few hundred gold to spend. You could Get away with riding a purchased one for the first 5-6 Levels. If it dies...just buy another...or buy a male and female and Breed them. My gecko Lasted till Level 5 without Dying, mostly because the war trained one is 4 HD.

How did you even charge? You can't charge with a bought animal afaik, because commanding your mount is a move action.

First it is War Trained.

Mounted Combat wrote:
Mounts that do not possess combat training......you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount.

So it Becomes:

Mounted COmbat wrote:

With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

So you can charge on a War trained mount with ease.

Letric wrote:

My idea was having either a mount from level 1, or a baby that would grow at level 4. Because I wanted to have a close bond with my mount, like it's something special, not just some animal I use for profit.

The idea behind using Hunter is that they get access to Raise Companion, which kinda fits the idea that you won't leave your AC behind.
Another issue I've noticed is that unless I get a gecko, charging could be an issue. I was trying to consider a build that uses a mount but fights in the front lines, but I'm not sure how you could handle that.
Mostly because this way I'd be a front liner, but I think I'd potentially be too weak.

It sounds like You want either a Hunter, Typical Ranger + AC, Huntmaster Cav, Mad Dog Barbarian, Wild Child Brawler, or Druid.

Less mounted combat Lancer and more Companion + PC partnership that can hold the front Lines. Am I correct on this thought? It just seems your thoughts get less and Less on the true Lancer front and more on the RP of Companionship with the Companion and being able to survive the front lines.


Nature famg Halfling are amazing mounted terrors


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


First it is War Trained.

Completely forgot that War trained works too.

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


It sounds like You want either a Hunter, Typical Ranger + AC, Huntmaster Cav, Mad Dog Barbarian, Wild Child Brawler, or Druid.

Less mounted combat Lancer and more Companion + PC partnership that can hold the front Lines. Am I correct on this thought? It just seems your thoughts get less and Less on the true Lancer front and more on the RP of Companionship with the Companion and being able to survive the front lines.

I think I want to sometimes charge, but I don't want to be it the focus on the character. Mostly because we usually have only 4 players in the party, so you cannot have such a specialized job. Melees are eventually required to keep in line in order to protect Caster.

I'd love the idea of having a Melee+Mount character. I wanna have a mount nonetheless because:

a- easier to control the mount if it's on your same space
b- if I have casting I can potentially Improved Sharing Spells, which would come in handy for sharing stats like Bull's STR

My major concerns are:

- Lack of HP/AC to withstand in melee. Usually there's only 1 taking damage in combat, but I could be potentially taking double damage (mount and me), so healing me up could be a problem.
- Lack of damage. Not sure if my mount can make up for it due to how many feats I could take regarding mounted combat.
- Pounce, does this even work? Can my mount pounce and I get to full attack as well?
- Link with Animal Companion. Hunters get a free Raise Dead at level 10, only similar ability is from Inquisitor at level 16 (way too late). Other ways are Ranger 4h Level spell (too high level), Druid 5th Level Spell (9 CL) and 1000 gold!
- Ranger. I like the ranger class because full BAB. I do want to get Outflank+Pack Flanking, but it seem to be an impossible feat. Also Ranger it's the only class that gives at level 10 the possibility to move and full attack with Mounted Skirmisher.
The only other exception to this is Nature Fang Druid archetype where you can get Slayer Talents. At level 6 and 10 you can use these talents to get a Ranger Combat Style (Ex), which means accessing to Mounted Skirmisher even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

Nature Fang only gives up Wildshape. I know it's huge, but it doesn't work with Mounted Combat. I DO get 9 level spellcasting.

Grand Lodge

Ok Then it seems we Have it narrowed Down to Hunter and Nature Fang Druid.

Both are fine for what your going for. I have made a successful druid who did not use Wildshape much. He wore Spells Storing Armor + Spell storing Shield. He Used Rime + Frigid Touch To stagger foes who hit him and Then used his spells for offense. This was well before Nature Fang. I feel you could accomplish a decent fighter type with all the extras you get suited to melee. Then use your Talents to Pick up the mounted feats you want. If you still Desire "Wildshape" grab a polymorph spell like Elemental Body, Beast Shape.

Hunter would be the Easiest way to go. The class is surprisingly effective. As you said it is easy to keep your AC alive with access to raise companion at 10 (Just 1 level later than a druid). The Ability to get the feats you want of Outflank + Pack Flanking will come quickly and Early. You can get animals with Grab/Trip or other kinds of maneuvers you can reduce incoming damage pretty well. One of my favorite ways to go is a Grab Companion and a Trip Based Hunter. Pack Flanking + Outflank + Broken wing Gambit with Coordinated Maneuvers towards end of Build I grab up Seize the Moment. Things that come in and Provoke an AoO end up tripped and grabbed Paired with a lot of Pain from multiple hits from both AC and Hunter. Hunter is a very good class even without Full BaB. The spell casting and Outflank help make up for that.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Ok Then it seems we Have it narrowed Down to Hunter and Nature Fang Druid.

Both are fine for what your going for. I have made a successful druid who did not use Wildshape much. He wore Spells Storing Armor + Spell storing Shield. He Used Rime + Frigid Touch To stagger foes who hit him and Then used his spells for offense. This was well before Nature Fang. I feel you could accomplish a decent fighter type with all the extras you get suited to melee. Then use your Talents to Pick up the mounted feats you want. If you still Desire "Wildshape" grab a polymorph spell like Elemental Body, Beast Shape.

Hunter would be the Easiest way to go. The class is surprisingly effective. As you said it is easy to keep your AC alive with access to raise companion at 10 (Just 1 level later than a druid). The Ability to get the feats you want of Outflank + Pack Flanking will come quickly and Early. You can get animals with Grab/Trip or other kinds of maneuvers you can reduce incoming damage pretty well. One of my favorite ways to go is a Grab Companion and a Trip Based Hunter. Pack Flanking + Outflank + Broken wing Gambit with Coordinated Maneuvers towards end of Build I grab up Seize the Moment. Things that come in and Provoke an AoO end up tripped and grabbed Paired with a lot of Pain from multiple hits from both AC and Hunter. Hunter is a very good class even without Full BaB. The spell casting and Outflank help make up for that.

Halfling before Racial 20 pts buy I have included 2 options. One with 16 STR, the other with 17.

The main difference is 12/14 WIS. Also, all points would go to STR.
STR 17 // 18 -2
DEX 13 // 12 +2
CON 14 // 14
INT 8 Has trouble following trains of thought, forgets most unimportant things
WIS 14 // 12
CHA 7 +2

The first option is more well rounded, having STR 16 DEX 16 WIS 14 at level8.
The second option favors STR, having STR 18 DEX 14 WIS 12 at level 8.

Skills
Handle Animal
Perception
Ride
Stealth > could totaly ignore it, but kinda makes sense if you live in the wilderness.
Survival > Mostly story reasons and the guy lives in the wilderness.

1 Wild Child AC - Brawler's Cunning - Martial Flexibility
2 Hunter AC - Animal Focus (+2 STR to AC) - Wild Empathy
3 Hunter
4 Hunter +1 STR

Feats
1- B Unarmed Strike - Combat Expertise Brawler's Cunning, no need to have 13 INT
2- No feats
3- B Outflank - Free Feat
4- B Pack Flanking

This is so far what I've been able to conjure up. I'm kinda afraid that my To Hit is going to be extremely low with the first option.

To hit with first option
1 STR 2 + 1 BAB
2 STR 2 + 1 BAB
3 STR 2 + 2 BAB
4 STR 3 + 2 BAB + 4 Pack Flanking

I'm not sure if I'm going to have the damage. At level 8 having +4 to STR with Animal Focus for up to 8 min a day it basically means that I can have it on all combats.
I've never played a Hunter, so I'm not sure if I should just focus on STR as Second Option, or take the more well rounded approach.

Feats that I don't know when to take:
Risky Striker
Improved Spell Sharing
Step Up > Following Step
Power Attack > Should I even take this feat?
Weapon Focus > necessary ?
Mounted Combat > Depends on whether the level 1 AC is Small. Some are worth taking even if small.

Regarding AC:
Haven't found a single one that I thought it was a must have. I'm trying REALLY hard on not taking a Dinosaur, mostly because they seem a bit out of place on most APs I play.
Second I had a hard time finding a Trip one (except the Wolf) and I'm not even sure it would work that often, because even if the AC goes LARGE, I'm planning on using Reduce Animal to make it Medium, so I lose a lot on CMB.

The most interesting ones are:

Baluchitherium Good stats
Megaloceros Good Stats 3 attacks at 7
Chalicotherium Good Armor and Rend
Iguanodon Seems cool
Spinosaurus This one is the best
Velociraptor CON 17 and 60ft speed!
Warcat It's well rounded, though it seems to be an orc choice only
Big Cat A Classic
Gecko, Giant It brings almost no damage, poor AC. Expert climber is cool though.

Those with Pounce are great because I'd get full attack on AC + normal attack on me.
Some have good AC.
All animals chosen have at least 2 attacks.

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