I'm attempting to build a 10th level healer character for a campaign.
The issue i'm running in to is trying to find a way to do it and not end up being bored, because 100% healer is not only unnecessary but leaves you with little to do. So far I've thought of a few ideas but i'm not sure on their viability.
First idea was a Kitsune Spirit Guide oracle with the Life Mystery. Picking up Wrecking Mysticism curse so i can just grab all of the magical tail feats and focus into enchantment spells.
The pro is between the life mystery and the life spirit i can basically have 2 channel pools to work from so i don't really need to focus spell resources on healing, also i basically can just put everything into charisma for casting/channeling, with an 16 alone in a stat you can basically have 8 channels a day, and every ability modifier point basically boosts the pool by 2 every time.
The issue i see with that is the character immediately has to sit in a corner twiddling it's thumbs if anything is immune or can beat the saving throws.
2nd idea was Cleric or Oracle for 7 levels into Holy Vindicator. It seemed like an idea to approach a healer while also opening up a melee option.
The problem there is trying to strike a balance between melee ability stats, the casting stat, and channel. If you go oracle all of the fun stuff around channel smite becomes massively situational, and if you go cleric your channel uses and save DC and you need wisdom for casting, but at least versatile channeling opens up. I know a healer really should save healing till after combat so i probably don't need a ton of channel uses but you still need to strike a balance to ensure you don't run out too soon either.
Any suggestions would help, though I will say now i don't want to play the commonly suggested Oradin build, not to mention i don't want to play paladin due to alignment restrictions/codes and all.
The obvious answer with the first is don't take only enchantment spells. Take the odd buff and/or spells like burst of radiance or admonishing ray.
A cleric or oracle who fights in melee from time to time is certainly doable. A cleric with the right domains would probably be better at it than a life oracle. You do have to make compromises on ability scores. What method for generating those scores are you using?
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First of all, kudos to playing a healer. A lot of people on the boards hear the word healer and run screaming in the other direction. Others will argue 'till their red in the face that healers are dumb because, 'if you aren't dealing the killing blow on every monster you aren't having fun.'
I guess what I'm trying to say is I appreciate a person who knows that they can have fun with a healing character. It's something I find rare on the boards, and I always want to thank people who work that way.
So, second off, there are a few builds that I've been throwing around that are a bit 'out of the box' that you might want to look at, especially if you don't want to go 'full healer.'
Secondly, let me say that I tend to shy away from enchantment specialists. I just find them not fun. They way most of them play is that you either win every fight without combat (Dominate person) or you fight something immune to mind effecting and sit on your (expletive) while everyone else has fun. Just my two cents.
Thirdly: you don't have to be a combat monster to be an effective character. I had a Lore-Oracle who basically only knew debuff-removing spells and a few buffs. However, he was super smart and was really good with knowledge skills. Basically, outside of combat, he knew everything, and could really help the party with non-combat encounters. In combat he healed (lesser and normal reach metamagic rods) and threw out buffs like bless and (later) blessings of fervor.
1)As you mentioned, a life shaman can do pretty well. They can't spontaneously convert cure spells, but they have an eclectic mix of spells, and through their hexes you can get things like evil eye and the slumber hex, which can make you a good debuffer while still healing when called for.
2) Straight clerics of Saranrae are pretty good, especially if they take the glory and sun domains, which can basically turn them into undead-destroying monsters. They also gain a lot of buffs they can throw out (Bless, blessing of ferver), they have all the debuff-removing spells too, which is often times MORE critical than normal healing.
3) The always popular Life Oracle has been mentioned. Solid choice, though your offensive options will be somewhat limited just because of your spell selection.
Now for some of the more strange builds:
4)Hex Channeler Witch: A lot of people really hate this archetype, but I think it's pretty good. If you choose the healing patron, you get healing spells as well as debuff-removers, plus you have channel positive energy, and you can use the extra hex feat to get your hexes back (you basically have to give up a hex to get a d6 of channel positive energy). For the cost of your feats, you can basically get a witch with channel positive energy, which is an interesting way to do things. LOTS of nasty witch spells.
5) Well, everyone seems to agree that Wizards, especially when they get to high levels are the most OP supreme BS characters ever, so why not have a channeling wizard? The Spirit Wisperer Archetype gives you a shaman's animal spirit ability, choose life and BOOM, positive channeling wizard. You only get 1+chr mod channels per day, but you can take extra channeling and just make sure to have a high charisma.
6)So one of the stranger builds I've been toying around with is a healer spiritualist. Now, granted they can't channel, so their AoE healing won't be nearly as good, but they get all the heal and debuff-removing spells, and they can (at level 10 at least) cast touch spells through their phantom. Plus, get lunging spell touch (requires six ranks in spellcraft) and you can do healing from around the battlefield. Plus you still have a phantom to run around and do your combat for you. Just a thought.
The obvious answer with the first is don't take only enchantment spells. Take the odd buff and/or spells like burst of radiance or admonishing ray.
A cleric or oracle who fights in melee from time to time is certainly doable. A cleric with the right domains would probably be better at it than a life oracle. You do have to make compromises on ability scores. What method for generating those scores are you using?
I wasn't sure how good divine casting was at damage from a back row position as it seemed like divine spell lists were more attuned to front row/buffing as the ranged damaging side was more to the arcane spell lists. I had thought about buffing spells of course as well but those were a given and generally you're not going to be spending every round on buffing.
I forgot to put this in, its 20 point buy.
For the melee holy vindicator idea i tried an idea with the Divine Fighting Technique Densa's Shooting star to do a Wis/Cha build as the technique allows for Cha to Atk and Damage with a starknife, though the damage output didn't seem to be that impressive.
1)As you mentioned, a life shaman can do pretty well. They can't spontaneously convert cure spells, but they have an eclectic mix of spells, and through their hexes you can get things like evil eye and the slumber hex, which can make you a good debuffer while still healing when called for.
2) Straight clerics of Saranrae are pretty good, especially if they take the glory and sun domains, which can basically turn them into undead-destroying monsters. They also gain a lot of buffs they can throw out (Bless, blessing of ferver), they...
Those are some good ideas. Though i haven't decided if i want to do melee or focus on casting. Melee has the option that its technically an unlimited resource, but it does have the greater risk of needing to heal yourself more as well.
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I wasn't sure how good divine casting was at damage from a back row position as it seemed like divine spell lists were more attuned to front row/buffing as the ranged damaging side was more to the arcane spell lists. I had thought about buffing spells of course as well but those were a given and generally you're not going to be spending every round on buffing.
I understand where you are coming from, but you don't need damaging spells to keep useful. And you are right, you won't be buffing all the time. But past level, say, 8, my Lore Oracle was mostly busy every round unless the party had a super easy time with a fight, in which case I conserved my spells (and sat on my butt, admittedly).
Usually it went first round: blessings of fervor
Second round: if enemy spellcaster: start silence, if melee beatstick I cast sun metal on the melee PC with the most attacks/round.
By the third round, someone was usually hurt enough to justify healing
Not to mention I had things like communal align weapon to help my party overcome DR, I had communal air walk to help against fliers, I had dispel magic to counter enemy spellcasters. . . I usually had a lot to do. If undead were involved I used cure spells and lunging spell touch.
I actually only had two offensive spells, and they were actually pretty weak. Spear of purity and searing light, which I generally only pulled out against demons/ Devils and undead respectivly.
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The very best choice though is an Oradin.
Also don't look at the Paladin's code is a restriction, or something that will make the game not fun. Paladins are so very often given a bad rap and I feel has to go with either misunderstanding the class's role or perhaps the cynicism of many. Of DMs and/or players really not knowing how to incorparate such a class into the campaign.
If you are willing I'd like you to take a look at my thread Roleplaying a Memorable Paladin, Not as a Restrictive/Troublesome Class but a Great PC..
I wasn't sure how good divine casting was at damage from a back row position as it seemed like divine spell lists were more attuned to front row/buffing as the ranged damaging side was more to the arcane spell lists. I had thought about buffing spells of course as well but those were a given and generally you're not going to be spending every round on buffing.
I understand where you are coming from, but you don't need damaging spells to keep useful. And you are right, you won't be buffing all the time. But past level, say, 8, my Lore Oracle was mostly busy every round unless the party had a super easy time with a fight, in which case I conserved my spells (and sat on my butt, admittedly).
Usually it went first round: blessings of fervor
Second round: if enemy spellcaster: start silence, if melee beatstick I cast sun metal on the melee PC with the most attacks/round.
By the third round, someone was usually hurt enough to justify healingNot to mention I had things like communal align weapon to help my party overcome DR, I had communal air walk to help against fliers, I had dispel magic to counter enemy spellcasters. . . I usually had a lot to do. If undead were involved I used cure spells and lunging spell touch.
I actually only had two offensive spells, and they were actually pretty weak. Spear of purity and searing light, which I generally only pulled out against demons/ Devils and undead respectivly.
I guess that is true, i guess also at 10th level i'll probably be able to devote 1st and 2nd level spells to just buffs and spend those as i please considering if i go the life or even spirit guide route i'll have plenty of channel as well.
The very best choice though is an Oradin.
Also don't look at the Paladin's code is a restriction, or something that will make the game not fun. Paladins are so very often given a bad rap and I feel has to go with either misunderstanding the class's role or perhaps the cynicism of many. Of DMs and/or players really not knowing how to incorparate such a class into the campaign.
If you are willing I'd like you to take a look at my thread Roleplaying a Memorable Paladin, Not as a Restrictive/Troublesome Class but a Great PC..
Its less that i think its limiting and not fun, and more the party composition makes it very difficult to do that due to a few members being very prone to evil acts or lawbreaking. In most groups its not a problem, this one I would turn into the fun police.
I am a big fan of the Shaman class, and think the Witch Doctor archetype might be a good fit for what you want. Not only does it give you a channel pool, but it also gives some spontaneous condition removal and dispelling options (which is often the other side of being the 'healer').
Going in that direction would also allow you to consider choosing a spirit other than Life as your main spirit (maybe Battle or Mammoth if you go melee, or Heavens or Flame if you focus on being a caster) and then pick up Life as your usual wandering spirit.
One idea I'd been toying with was making a build in line with the above, and then getting the Bless Equipment line of feats to leverage the possibility of having two channel pools (one from archetype and one from Life spirit). Certainly not a necessary feature of the build, but it could be a strong boost to the team to be able to toss around situation-specific Bane on your allies' weapons.
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Also don't look at the Paladin's code is a restriction, or something that will make the game not fun. Paladins are so very often given a bad rap and I feel has to go with either misunderstanding the class's...
Hmm, fair enough. The wrong party setup and player mindset can make playing a paladin difficult if not impossible.
What about a hospitaler, warrior of the holy light paladin with variant multiclass cavalier order of the star. Grab bracers of the merciful knight asap, take oath of charity for better heals to party, or fey foundling feat for healing self. Then two hand and have fun
I think OP has expressed a desire to avoid playing a paladin with his/her current group.
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Shaman is a great class for healer now due to the Buffs it received.
Herb Witch offers things in the way of Removal of Conditions while giving you Hexes and your spells to play with. Picking up wands and Expendable to handle healing outside combat is great. Using Healing Hex and later Heal spell to heal in combat. You can help negate the need for healing with the right Hexes.
Evangelist Cleric is always one of the top support classes.
Your already looking at the Spirit Guide Oracle. I am currently playing one in a Home game atm as level 14. I tend to be one of those players who dislikes dedicated healers but in this specific case of 6 players, giving up offense has been a help to my DM, and keeps me from optimizing and forcing the challenge rating to skyrocket into levels of broken. Having a ton of fun cause I explained how in Combat Healer is boring. So out of combat I am given lots of RP opportunities as the parties Face and Golarion's most lovable Shelynite Songstress (+36 to Perform Sing and +22 to Artistry Songwriter). I went with Shabti with the Child Curse. Life mystery and typically she channels the Heavens spirit but also can access Lore, Slums (2nd favorite), elements and Nature Spirits. RP wise Avoid Ancestor (Shabti have none), Bones (Evil), Battle (She is a Pacifist). Very fun RP character for sure that is a break from the norm. But if it was a High optimized combat encounters type of Campaign I do not think I would enjoy it as much.
What buffs did the Shaman healer receive?
I have rolled up a Shaman that can heal in a pinch, but focuses on Hexes and I am wondering if I am missing something.
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What buffs did the Shaman healer receive?
I have rolled up a Shaman that can heal in a pinch, but focuses on Hexes and I am wondering if I am missing something.
Life Spirit got a bit better with them rewriting the Life Link Hex. It was fixed a while back but so much better than the first printing of near useless.
Going Witch Doctor + Life Spirit can net you 2 Channel pools. Luckily A Life Shaman does not need many hexes to work well at being the group's "Healer".
Some offensive/debuff spells which aren't mind-affecting to use from the back line, off the cleric/oracle list:
1: Barbed Chains, Burning Disarm
2: Admonishing Ray, Burst of Radiance
3: Dispel Magic, Searing Light
4: Holy Smite, Spit Venom
No, these mostly aren't as good as sorc/wiz spells. They're not useless though by any means.
As far as a melee cheric goes I'd start with a cleric of Sarenrae because it mitigates the MAD of wis, cha and physical stats via weapon finesse & dervish dance. The glory/heroism subdomain gives swift action heroism to you and your allies at 8th so you're only going to fit in a couple of levels of HV by 10th; the sun domain makes channel smite or the damaging use of channel that much better vs. undead.
Something like Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 14 before racial, level up or item bonuses should be workable. There are a ton of +Dex/Cha races and a few +Dex/Wis ones, besides dual-talent human. A +Cha/Wis aasimar could also work though I'd strip off a few points from those stats to increase Dex further in that case. A hobgoblin with +dex/con would be interesting and perhaps appropriate as someone redeemed by the light.
Clerics and Oracles get all the Summon Monster spells. Clerics can potentially use Sacred Summons to get them out faster. The Evangelist archetype could probably make this even better by buffing the summoned monsters and the party as well. You could potentially use every turn after the 1st round healing and still get to move your summons around, make attacks, etc.
As a similar option, if you go with the Animal domain or certain Oracle mysteries you could have an animal companion who does the fighting while you do the healing (possibly while mounted on said companion)
Those two options could also be combined. I know a lot of people are leery of pets, but if you want to spend your standard (and maybe move) actions healing it could be nice to have something else to do too.
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To the OP:
With all of those channels, I think you should grab the channel equipment feat line. Let's you trade uses of channel energy for weapon or armor enchants. Things like ghost touch and bane can be exceptional value on your friendly archer or other damage dealer.
Plus, worship a deity with a good chanel enhancing feat. Pharasma and Milani are probably best. Fateful channel and Beacon of Hope are both good in channel high builds.
Not sure how well reach builds work at 10th level but with a longspear and combat reflexes, you can melee a bit (via opportunity attacks) while keeping your standard actions available for other stuff.
To the OP:
With all of those channels, I think you should grab the channel equipment feat line. Let's you trade uses of channel energy for weapon or armor enchants. Things like ghost touch and bane can be exceptional value on your friendly archer or other damage dealer.
Plus, worship a deity with a good chanel enhancing feat. Pharasma and Milani are probably best. Fateful channel and Beacon of Hope are both good in channel high builds.
I think I mentioned it above, but I agree that the Bless Equipment line is a good fit for a character with many channels, especially if you combine the Shaman's Witch Doctor archetype with the Life Spirit channel.
Worshiping Pharasma can also be quite fitting from a flavour perspective, while granting access to the very strong Fateful Channel feat.
I've been toying around in my head with the idea of a Life Oracle who focuses on necromantic spells!
The idea is that they died as a child, and are caught between life & death. The Wasting curse is of course terribly thematic...
I'm thinking a DEX build, w/ Reach Spells metamagic to get Cure (if necessary) & necromantic spells off from range. That adds time to the levels when stuff is effective... Maybe the build is not worth it. I'm curious what people think?