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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:

You are also missing the "everyman" class. The everyday person, like Arthur Dent, Alice in Wonderland, or Dorothy Gale, who somehow get involved in extraordinary things.

Arthur has no special powers. He's useless in combat. He can't disarm traps. He isn't good at stealth and probably could not sneak attack anybody. How would you make somebody like Arthur, Alice, or Dorothy?

Dragonlance and Star Wars had a noble class that came close but nothing like it exists in Pathfinder.

...isn't that a commoner?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Rogue Genius Games' Comedic Character Options has a Commoner archetype that would be perfect for this purpose. Basically, the character is able to designate one or more fellow party members as "best buddies" and borrow various abilities from them. In short, whatever one or more other party members can do really well, he can learn to sort of do well enough to get by.


Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.


Bandw2 wrote:
Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.

Except that pounce with three primary natural attacks at level 5, guessing on something with a STR boost too no less, IS very powerful compared to the two attacks at less that full BAB due to TWF penalties and partial STR mod in off hand everybody else is using.

Dark Archive

darth_borehd wrote:

You are also missing the "everyman" class. The everyday person, like Arthur Dent, Alice in Wonderland, or Dorothy Gale, who somehow get involved in extraordinary things.

Arthur has no special powers. He's useless in combat. He can't disarm traps. He isn't good at stealth and probably could not sneak attack anybody. How would you make somebody like Arthur, Alice, or Dorothy?

Admittedly, given how this is simply an archetype of the rogue, this still has usefulness but I'd like to offer to you the Everyday Hero.

A everyday hero is not a warrior or professional adventurer, just a young person who fate led into a life of adventure. Surviving on wit and skill, she gains increasing confidence as she advances in level, and this confidence allows her to succeed where others fail or give up.

Everyday heroes are very diverse and come from a great variety of backgrounds, from princesses to stable boys.
This can be said to be a player-worthy variant of the expert NPC class, though my preference for that is the Rogue Glory archetype True Professional.


Torbyne wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.

Except that pounce with three primary natural attacks at level 5, guessing on something with a STR boost too no less, IS very powerful compared to the two attacks at less that full BAB due to TWF penalties and partial STR mod in off hand everybody else is using.

no strength boost, the shifter class is also 3/4 BAB, as it has spell casting(the spell casting is the shapeshifting) but can get more than just shifting.

to be clear, 1 level dip gets you the alteration sphere and CL 1, the number of stuff you can do with alteration as based on the CL the sphere is cast with, so it emphasizes you going full shifter.

it's duration is concentration, while being able to expend a sphere point to not concentrate for 1 minute. the shifter can concentrate on alteration stuff as a move action and way later a swift action.


Agathiel (Vigilante Archetype) is a sneaky shifting class from level 1 that allows you to keep your form for quite a bit. It does come with some alignment restrictions & is a tad weak for a melee class but still seems neat.

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