Killing high level casters


Advice


So in an epic level match up, how do you kill two high level casters (one arcane, one mystic theurge) using a epic paladin and his retinue of clerics, iquisitors, and the like. The paladin rides a redeemed mythic red dragon (cr 23 from mythic adventures) and is a graveknight, and lord of a massive country (think height of Roman Empire) He is lvl 23, and mythic 2, his entourage is 5 20 level divine casters or martial characters of undetermined class.


The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.

Whatever you do, do not attack them on their turf where they've had any amount of time to prepare a defense.

Even then, the arcane caster is still likely to win.

You basically have to kill the wizard before they can act. If not the wizard casts time stop and teleports away before you can do anything else, and once the wizard knows you're after them they can assault you with virtual impunity with the myriad of spells they have.


Claxon wrote:

The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.

Whatever you do, do not attack them on their turf where they've had any amount of time to prepare a defense.

Even then, the arcane caster is still likely to win.

You basically have to kill the wizard before they can act. If not the wizard casts time stop and teleports away before you can do anything else, and once the wizard knows you're after them they can assault you with virtual impunity with the myriad of spells they have.

The caster called him out to battle


Huma4President wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.

Whatever you do, do not attack them on their turf where they've had any amount of time to prepare a defense.

Even then, the arcane caster is still likely to win.

You basically have to kill the wizard before they can act. If not the wizard casts time stop and teleports away before you can do anything else, and once the wizard knows you're after them they can assault you with virtual impunity with the myriad of spells they have.

The caster called him out to battle

If he can close, and has the step up feats the caster is meat.


How well are these casters being played? AMF does nothing if they're running Arodens Spellbane.

Being a paladin helps with saves, make sure you get some way of ignoring/resisting negative levels in case they attempt that angle of approach.

Your best bet is catching them off guard (the real them, not one of their clones) and pounding enough damage into them in turn 1 to insure they're gone.

Then hope they don't have a Contingency running (spoiler, they will).

Are you using Paizos Mythic ruleset, or WotC Epic ruleset? They both present very different tools for this scenario.

Your only real bet is finding an attack option that your GM didn't have the casters covering with an "I win" button.

Silver Crusade

Actually, negative levels HELP the Graveknight, being undead.


Even if you do Kill them expect them to exact revenge from a cloned body.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
Actually, negative levels HELP the Graveknight, being undead.

Fair point, I had forgotten the template. Graveknight gives the Paladin significant buffs to his defenses (check with your GM to make sure you don't hurt yourself with LOH, since you're undead).

Is the Paladin a self-created Graveknight, or do they have a patron?
I'm operating under the assumption that the GM houseruled that the Graveknight template has no alignment restriction.

The Paladin could secret away their ceremonial armor (effectively a phylactery) as a method to come back if defeated in combat.

Sovereign Court

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You hope that your GM has poor system mastery?


Or just out system mastery them with 20th level Nature oracle shenanigans.

On a more serious note maybe try and trap the soul them to prevent clone.


Firewarrior44 wrote:

Or just out system mastery them with 20th level Nature oracle shenanigans.

On a more serious note maybe try and trap the soul them to prevent clone.

I had totally forgotten trap the soul. hmm.. And I'll look at the Nature Oracle and his shenanigans. I haven't encountered much by way of Oracle


Sangerine wrote:

How well are these casters being played? AMF does nothing if they're running Arodens Spellbane.

Being a paladin helps with saves, make sure you get some way of ignoring/resisting negative levels in case they attempt that angle of approach.

Your best bet is catching them off guard (the real them, not one of their clones) and pounding enough damage into them in turn 1 to insure they're gone.

Then hope they don't have a Contingency running (spoiler, they will).

Are you using Paizos Mythic ruleset, or WotC Epic ruleset? They both present very different tools for this scenario.

Your only real bet is finding an attack option that your GM didn't have the casters covering with an "I win" button.

It's a PVP grudge match to be honest, so the Gm is having little say either way. It's Paizo's Mythic rules set and I'm honestly worried most about straight blaster caster kind of damage.


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Level 20 with mythic?

Play another caster. Simulacrum of self. Greater Possession on the simulacrum. Mind Blank on yourself and the Simulacrum. You now have immunity to targeted mind-affecting spells until they realize you're actually a possessing entity, all without appearing to have removed that weakness, while also increasing your hitpoints by 50% (non-healable) and a place to sink any physical conditions inflicted. Seducer's Bane magic item lets you fake failing saves against enchantments for good measure. As for blasting, just slap a bunch of abjurations on ahead of time? Extended Resist Energy x4 takes the edge off.

Extended Greater False Life on yourself and your host body buys you a little more health.


Always fun with these bouts of theorycraft. Alright, since this is the paladin getting called out, we'll go off the generic assumption this is taking place in a dragon ball z type open wasteland full of plateaus waiting to be detonated in amusing fashions that the caster bros haven't messed with.

So lets start with the basics of things you personally will need:

1) Flight. At a minimum both these jokers will be in the air since overland flight and unless you're a bow pallie, you'll need a way to mulch them. Considering you have access to a great red wyrm, greater angelic aspect, and a ton of random caster support, this isn't an issue. Just pack backups in case your backup explodes, the dragon dies, you get disjuncted, etc.

2) True Seeing/Blind Sight. One or the other, this just makes the passive defenses both guys will invariably have (invis, displacement, mirror images, etc) a non issue as well as prevent any illusion/polymorph malark from messing with you. Pay for a passive item to do or get one of your bonded casters to put it on you (or both). A fair amount of your caster friends should have it on them too.

3) Magic Defense. You're a paladin and a graveknight so your saves are already very good and you're immune to mind altering and enervation/energy drain so that's a good start, but it never hurts to keep pumping yourself further as well as your mount. Be sure your resistance cloak and wisdom/cha/dex (to a lesser extent) belts are maxed and come in packing every save enhancer that lasts a while on the book (such as heroism, good hope, etc). Greater spell immunity is another good option and will help out at least till you inevitably get disjunctioned. Furthermore, you'll need elemental resists (graveknight gives you one immunity pro bono so good start) so gear/buff up resist energy/similar too. Freedom of Movement is also obligatory.

That's the basics. Now lets get tactical. Assuming these guys aren't total clowns they'll have clones, contingencies, and probably be showing up via astral projection. The point of this is that killing them will get you no where. They'll just wake up elsewhere slightly miffed their bound planetar will need to restore them a bit. So we don't want a kill. We want a capture instead.

Leave the army of mooks behind and instead only take the L20 casters. Said casters should have their all day buffs on and have similar means of detection as you as well as various corner case spells to prevent things like earth gliding, as well as critical spells like Aroden's Spellbane, Greater Spell Immunity, and various dispels (not Disjunction though, at least unless you can verify they aren't astral projections. If they are projections they just get bounced back to their demiplane which doesn't help you much.). The casters will show up buffed and ready for war, potentially with their a coterie of simulacrums/constructs/undead/bound stuff and probably open up with disjunctioning you+as many others as possible or just trying to eliminate the chaff. As such, avoid bunching up, 80ft between any given person if you can help it and take stock of the survivors. You should still have a few of your entourage left hopefully so they can can start rebuffing you as needed, or applying corner case counter magic, or just spamming dispels to remove whatever their contingencies are. Presuming you're alive and capable of reaching them it's a simple matter of just abusing your mythic tools to slap one of them for an absurd level of non-lethal and remove him from the fight. By and large you can ignore the bound outsiders/undead/similar. Once a guy is down priority is to grab the body and bug out via whatever teleports you have. Dude #2 can wait his turn another day. KOed guy should be safely petrified, soul trapped, or similar to keep him in the sweet spot of indefinitely incapacitated but not dead and then stored in your local doom vault you can probably pay to have with various toys like forbiddence, guards, etc.

That's just a bunch of general stuff and theory craft though. There's a lot that can happen depending on what they open with, their builds, or how smart/dumb the controlling player is and your build. As always, use your resources to gather intel on them (favored gear, builds, etc) and be sure to have some extraplanar backup with true rezes handy in case important people wipe.

My 2sp anyway


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Always fun with these bouts of theorycraft. Alright, since this is the paladin getting called out, we'll go off the generic assumption this is taking place in a dragon ball z type open wasteland full of plateaus waiting to be detonated in amusing fashions that the caster bros haven't messed with.

So lets start with the basics of things you personally will need:

1) Flight. At a minimum both these jokers will be in the air since overland flight and unless you're a bow pallie, you'll need a way to mulch them. Considering you have access to a great red wyrm, greater angelic aspect, and a ton of random caster support, this isn't an issue. Just pack backups in case your backup explodes, the dragon dies, you get disjuncted, etc.

2) True Seeing/Blind Sight. One or the other, this just makes the passive defenses both guys will invariably have (invis, displacement, mirror images, etc) a non issue as well as prevent any illusion/polymorph malark from messing with you. Pay for a passive item to do or get one of your bonded casters to put it on you (or both). A fair amount of your caster friends should have it on them too.

3) Magic Defense. You're a paladin and a graveknight so your saves are already very good and you're immune to mind altering and enervation/energy drain so that's a good start, but it never hurts to keep pumping yourself further as well as your mount. Be sure your resistance cloak and wisdom/cha/dex (to a lesser extent) belts are maxed and come in packing every save enhancer that lasts a while on the book (such as heroism, good hope, etc). Greater spell immunity is another good option and will help out at least till you inevitably get disjunctioned. Furthermore, you'll need elemental resists (graveknight gives you one immunity pro bono so good start) so gear/buff up resist energy/similar too. Freedom of Movement is also obligatory.

That's the basics. Now lets get tactical. Assuming these guys aren't total clowns they'll have clones, contingencies, and probably be showing up...

so to summarize,

1. Fly. with lots of backup fly.
2. true seeing, blindsense, or both
3. save buff and specific immunity.
4.Capture
5.Dispel

my last question, is my Big Bad Weakness, which is my sword that holds my soul, instead of my armor, a +10 artifact with Axiomatic Holy Merciful brilliant energy vicious longsword.

Edit: I have considered not using it as its destruction would kill me... and that would be very unfortunate. Also my graveknight status is kind of a house ruled holy kind of undead, as my god took my oath of servitude to what is good Very VERY seriously.


I'd personally take the sword with you. Think of it this way: the safest place any achilles heel item is is in the hands of an epic/mythic guy. You're not a wizard and can't just shove it in a dead magic demiplane behind an army of Cthulhu snowmen after all.

Besides, since its an artifact it has to have its own bizarre and specific method of destruction rather than one of those clowns throwing disintegrates till it becomes a pile of dust. That said, brilliant energy is potentially exploitable if they decide to possess an undead or construct or similar so prepare accordingly with a suitable backup weapon.

Really the hard part of this is making sure they stay down. At Mythic 3 you can mulch either of them in a single round by way of fun things like mythic init, foe-biting, and fleet charge (if you're a champion anyway). It's just making sure you cross your ts and dot your i's to connect and make sure they don't go to their home tower/plane.


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QuidEst wrote:

Level 20 with mythic?

Play another caster. Simulacrum of self. Greater Possession on the simulacrum. Mind Blank on yourself and the Simulacrum. You now have immunity to targeted mind-affecting spells until they realize you're actually a possessing entity, all without appearing to have removed that weakness, while also increasing your hitpoints by 50% (non-healable) and a place to sink any physical conditions inflicted. Seducer's Bane magic item lets you fake failing saves against enchantments for good measure. As for blasting, just slap a bunch of abjurations on ahead of time? Extended Resist Energy x4 takes the edge off.

Extended Greater False Life on yourself and your host body buys you a little more health.

The OP is looking for help in KILLING the caster, not making his job harder. :)


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You'll want invisibility purge as true seeing fails vs mind blank.

Your artifact sword works inside an anti magic shell, something to remember.

Carry a couple rods of cancelation. Also have a source of wishes, you'll likely need several to either wish port or reverse misfortune or go digging for answers you missed.

Finally do not kill the caster, stun, paralyze, knock unconscious, anything but kill. You need to capture their soul. Perhaps work with the GM to tie that ability to your artifact, like a
Talisman of Soul-Eating.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

Level 20 with mythic?

Play another caster. Simulacrum of self. Greater Possession on the simulacrum. Mind Blank on yourself and the Simulacrum. You now have immunity to targeted mind-affecting spells until they realize you're actually a possessing entity, all without appearing to have removed that weakness, while also increasing your hitpoints by 50% (non-healable) and a place to sink any physical conditions inflicted. Seducer's Bane magic item lets you fake failing saves against enchantments for good measure. As for blasting, just slap a bunch of abjurations on ahead of time? Extended Resist Energy x4 takes the edge off.

Extended Greater False Life on yourself and your host body buys you a little more health.

The OP is looking for help in KILLING the caster, not making his job harder. :)

First step is not dying!


Claxon wrote:

The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.

Whatever you do, do not attack them on their turf where they've had any amount of time to prepare a defense.

Even then, the arcane caster is still likely to win.

You basically have to kill the wizard before they can act. If not the wizard casts time stop and teleports away before you can do anything else, and once the wizard knows you're after them they can assault you with virtual impunity with the myriad of spells they have.

high level casters use spellbane to counter antimagic field

The Exchange

Something as simple as silence being used against said caster. Cast on object coated with the magic glue of omg it doesn't come off. Toss it onto caster.

You'd be surprised how much a little thing like not being able to verabalise your spells screws a casters plans pretty hard.

I know there's stuff like silent spell and all that jazz, but he has to have some pretty specific things organised to get around it.

Even better, if you can get silence cast on to something like a fly or bug that is controlled by your nature oracle, have it fly into the casters space and occupy it by crawling into his component pouch. Now even when he tries to teleport etc, the silence goes with him because he's carrying it.

Now that's just one low level spell item, cast from a scroll even. It won't stop mr caster, but now he has to scramble much more than he initially thought.


Huma4President wrote:
So in an epic level match up, how do you kill two high level casters (one arcane, one mystic theurge) using a epic paladin and his retinue of clerics, iquisitors, and the like. The paladin rides a redeemed mythic red dragon (cr 23 from mythic adventures) and is a graveknight, and lord of a massive country (think height of Roman Empire) He is lvl 23, and mythic 2, his entourage is 5 20 level divine casters or martial characters of undetermined class.

Killing him is only half the battle, you also have to make sure he stays dead. This requires some GM fiat.

1. He is going to be astral projecting from his personal demiplane. This demiplane is loaded with a large variety traps, minions and wards. In addition, finding the demiplane is borderline impossible without some GM fiat, as the caster is mindblanked which prevents divination attempts. Its stated there are methods cut the cord linking back to his body which kills him, but Paizo has published no method to do this.

2. Even if you do find and kill him, he has clone factories set up elsewhere to bring him back to life. You need an effect that forces people to stays down(like Trap the Soul).


Claxon wrote:
The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.
johnlocke90 wrote:
high level casters use spellbane to counter antimagic field

Players with poor system mastery use spellbane to counter AMF. The "shrink item hat" trick is known for ages and does not require a 9th-level spell from an obscure splatbook.

For those who do not know the trick:

Spoiler:
1. get a protective dome in stone or iron (using wall of stone, a church bell, whatever)
2. cast shrink item on it, use the cloth-like option and make it a hat
3. AMF is a emanation centered on the caster => it requires a line of effect
4. When penetrating into an AMF, shrink item is suppressed, the dome pops out, granting total cover and blocking AMF
5. the caster teleports away


It was kind of mentioned, but the biggest variable is the system mastery (And willingness to use it) of the spellcasters you're fighting. I think you mentioned that this is PvP? That could be really good, or really bad.

Are they so new to high level casters that they still think fireballs, polar rays, and damage dealing spells are top choices? Easy time. But, if they use every trick mentioned above, simulacrums, astral projections, and backup clones in their private demiplanes while they scry every morning to see what the day is going to bring? A well-prepared caster is almost unassailable.

The Exchange

Put a timer on him. And for that matter you. Your running like an army against these guys.


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Djelai wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.
johnlocke90 wrote:
high level casters use spellbane to counter antimagic field

Players with poor system mastery use spellbane to counter AMF. The "shrink item hat" trick is known for ages and does not require a 9th-level spell from an obscure splatbook.

For those who do not know the trick:
** spoiler omitted **

It's not an either/or. Keep spellbane up along with a few shrink item hats.

The hats are great for escaping but not great for actually winning the fight.


So, those wizards are of similar stature? With cohorts and henchmen too? Like a life oracle follower from leadership next to his shoulder? Good luck, then, you will need it :)


Djelai wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The easiest way is UMD and scrolls of antimagic field and catching them by surprise.
johnlocke90 wrote:
high level casters use spellbane to counter antimagic field

Players with poor system mastery use spellbane to counter AMF. The "shrink item hat" trick is known for ages and does not require a 9th-level spell from an obscure splatbook.

For those who do not know the trick:
** spoiler omitted **

Seems like a risky strategy that could crush you to death rather than save you.


That's why you actually make it from tin foil. Light weight, stops emanations, durable enough for the single use, and thematic for a bizarre idea.


Update, I have some info on the casters, one is an Arcanist blaster caster who basically ignores divination, the other is a mystic theurge sorcerer/oracle vampire, they won't be backed by divine casters, only lower level arcane casters. My spy network informed me the Arcanist is the only one messing with planes, and he only has one for now, and got me a way to get there.


johnlocke90 wrote:
Huma4President wrote:
So in an epic level match up, how do you kill two high level casters (one arcane, one mystic theurge) using a epic paladin and his retinue of clerics, iquisitors, and the like. The paladin rides a redeemed mythic red dragon (cr 23 from mythic adventures) and is a graveknight, and lord of a massive country (think height of Roman Empire) He is lvl 23, and mythic 2, his entourage is 5 20 level divine casters or martial characters of undetermined class.

Killing him is only half the battle, you also have to make sure he stays dead. This requires some GM fiat.

1. He is going to be astral projecting from his personal demiplane. This demiplane is loaded with a large variety traps, minions and wards. In addition, finding the demiplane is borderline impossible without some GM fiat, as the caster is mindblanked which prevents divination attempts. Its stated there are methods cut the cord linking back to his body which kills him, but Paizo has published no method to do this.

2. Even if you do find and kill him, he has clone factories set up elsewhere to bring him back to life. You need an effect that forces people to stays down(like Trap the Soul).

You have to think beyond the block... Things such as clone machines and astral projecting from a demiplane rely on DM fiat as well. If you take on someone powerful, the first smart thing you do is realise that you need help. And being a 20th level anything means that you've made contacts in the right places to secure it.

And as I recall, that clone thing didn't work out well for Manshoon.


Blaster caster at least is fairly easy to work around since there's basically only two flavors of those. Battering Blast or Atomic Fireball. Both are stopped dead in their tracks by Greater Spell Immunity (due to both working off meta-magicked low level spells and typically they won't bother heightening them to L9). However getting that stripped via Disjunction is probable so aside from passive item resistances (for fireball or whatever element its metaed into anyway) there's not much to say other than ready for pain and potentially pack healing or force sphere contingencies. Expect a casualty among the cleric brigade presuming proper spacing and a full alpha strike.

Vampire is overall less problematic aside from the fact taking him alive is more of a hassle due to immunity to non-lethal. Either way, with the intelligence given (assuming it's good, verify with the Gods via liberal use of Commune/similar) I'd actually recommend taking the offensive. You have a way into their demiplane but that's not the right way of doing it. Instead, gather your hit squad outside the spot in the material plane where the place was conjured in the first place at high noon, hand a cleric a Cyclops Helm, and then Miracle with the intent to just destroy the demiplane using the helm to just take 20 on the CL check. The demiplane should promptly implode dumping everything in there (casters included) right at your feet. For extra fun have the rest of the clerics have readied G. Dispels or Disjunction scrolls. At that point shoot fish in a barrel. The vampire needs to waste turns ensuring he doesn't die to sunlight (hopefully spells like Protective Pnenumbra got dispelled on the way out) while you and your dragon can just punch the arcanist to unconciousness under weight of non-lethal attacks (he's no diviner wizard so his init should be extremely beatable). Be sure to have a rod of cancellation or two in your squad to deal with any emergency force spheres.

At that point even if either or both escape you still have all their toys (and if the arcanist is foolish, his clone/original body he's projecting from) they left in their base which is always nice.

Beware of any bound/created help that will be dumped out as well. Also, when you're preparing this, do so with all the help (and yourself) Mind-Blanked and all planning is to be done in a lead lined room.

Good hunting


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
That's why you actually make it from tin foil. Light weight, stops emanations, durable enough for the single use, and thematic for a bizarre idea.

And I thought wizards wore tin foil hats to protect themselves from mind control lasers.


Boomerang Nebula wrote:
Seems like a risky strategy that could crush you to death rather than save you.

Assuming you're correct (which I doubt, but whatever), do you think being surprised / flat-footed in an area which downgrades you from "demigod" to "commoner with high will save" is much safer?

As a wizard, you don't wait until you can cast 9th-lvl spells and access to the relevant sourcebook to protect you against AMF (a 6th-lvl spell from the CRB).

Here is how I understand Claxon's post (no offense intended):
You cannot kill a high level wizard, so just caught him flat-footed in an AMF, because killing a commoner is much easier".
How you surprise a guy who can cast foresight is beyond me though.


A lot of Divination Spells are up to GM decisions. Seeing as how its PvP I don't really see that being viable and still having this entertaining, as both parties literally know what the other person is going to do, so it seems likely the GM would have the magic fizzle. At the very least the GM can't accurately predict what either PC would try to do.

At least that's what I think.


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I am not clear from your original post. Is this a "kill them once" contest, sort of like a Mythic caster version of counting coup?

Or is it a "kill them forever"?

Either way, you have clerics and that means if you're smart, you win.

Here's the few potentially-unique pieces of advice that I have:

1.) Abuse sending. If possible, create an unlimited-use magic item of it (base cost 25,200 gp for a worn item or twice that for one that takes no item space) and have your lesser minions work in shifts to send them a pointless message of 25 words or less every ten minutes, 95% successfully unless they're on the same plane (then 100%). Alternating between them means hitting each of them every twenty minutes. Sleep? There is no sleep. There is only The Word. Perhaps send your graveknight's name. Perhaps say "fish". It matters naught.

2.) When you're ready to go after them, use miracle to locate one of them for a quarter-ton of gold. Send in whatever you choose to murder them in the face for the first time. How many solars can your clerics gate in per day, anyways? Then rinse and repeat with the other mage, if they were separate.

Wish I had a 3.), but nothing's coming to mind. Just remember the rules don't apply to miracle, so have each cleric keep it and a sack of powdered diamond on tap to deal with their surprises if and when it comes to a face-to-face showdown.

Oh, I do have a 3.)!
3.) If your clerics can be of other deities—and really, polytheistic retinues have a long and proud history—make sure that at least one has the Trickery domain: That one will be able to cast a time stop of his own. Also consider having one of them be a samsaran, so that the druid and shaman lists can be picked over for irresistible 8th- and 9th-level spells. Look into maybe having one be a wordcaster, too, or have the Experimental Spellcaster feat a couple of times.

And:
4.) Have one or two tough, greater teleport-capable angels or archons on hand to scoop up your sword and boogie if you should happen to fall. (Hopefully it weighs less than 50 pounds?)

Good luck with the PvP!


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Blaster caster at least is fairly easy to work around since there's basically only two flavors of those. Battering Blast or Atomic Fireball. Both are stopped dead in their tracks by Greater Spell Immunity (due to both working off meta-magicked low level spells and typically they won't bother heightening them to L9). However getting that stripped via Disjunction is probable so aside from passive item resistances (for fireball or whatever element its metaed into anyway) there's not much to say other than ready for pain and potentially pack healing or force sphere contingencies. Expect a casualty among the cleric brigade presuming proper spacing and a full alpha strike.

Vampire is overall less problematic aside from the fact taking him alive is more of a hassle due to immunity to non-lethal. Either way, with the intelligence given (assuming it's good, verify with the Gods via liberal use of Commune/similar) I'd actually recommend taking the offensive. You have a way into their demiplane but that's not the right way of doing it. Instead, gather your hit squad outside the spot in the material plane where the place was conjured in the first place at high noon, hand a cleric a Cyclops Helm, and then Miracle with the intent to just destroy the demiplane using the helm to just take 20 on the CL check. The demiplane should promptly implode dumping everything in there (casters included) right at your feet. For extra fun have the rest of the clerics have readied G. Dispels or Disjunction scrolls. At that point shoot fish in a barrel. The vampire needs to waste turns ensuring he doesn't die to sunlight (hopefully spells like Protective Pnenumbra got dispelled on the way out) while you and your dragon can just punch the arcanist to unconciousness under weight of non-lethal attacks (he's no diviner wizard so his init should be extremely beatable). Be sure to have a rod of cancellation or two in your squad to deal with any emergency force spheres.

At that point even if either or both escape you still have...

Problem with stuff like disjunction is it takes up a turn of combat and it only takes one round of pouncing to kill almost anyone at level 20.


With level 20 (or beyond) casters it's fairly easy to assume they have quickened stuff prepped or have the required rod to do so on the fly. It's not that far out there for them to say disjunction+quickened teleport/dimension door out of charge range or do something like double tapping nuclear fire balls/battering blasts for the blaster.


Loving the sending spam idea.

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