mcquackers |
So I was talking with my GM about the possibility for either using permanency or a custom magic item to double the range of my paladin's auras with the widen aura spell. He wasn't against it but suggested I make a post on the pazio message board to see what other's thought about it. So I come here looking for some input, reasoning, and to see if anyone else might have another solution that I've missed.
Permanency spell doesn't explicitly list Widen Auras but it does say GM's may allow other spells. From what I can gather on this I would need to find a scroll of permanency and make two 30ish UMD checks since the Widen Auras spell is personal, permanency isn't on the paladin spell list, and I'd need to emulate the 15 int score required to cast it. All of that for one dispel magic to completely negate it, not to mention the hard as balls UMD check.
I was also researching on using a custom magic item. I believe that should follow this formula for pricing, Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2. So that should be 2 x 3 x 2,000gp = 12,000gp? (2nd level spell x 7th level paladin should only have a casting level of 3 x 2000gp since the spell is minutes per level.) Now to stretch the feasibility here, if the above is correct could you then restrict it to only paladin's for 30%(3600gp) price reduction? This should leave you with a cost of 8400gp to buy or 4200gp to craft? By the rules that should be allowed right? Convincing the DM however will probably be a different story.
Vatras |
Permanency is by DM fiat, and you are better off by getting a mage to cast it for you than trying UMD. You are already aware of it's vulnerability to dispelling.
For a continuous item the formula is [spell level x caster level (pally level -3) x 2000 x2 (duration is min/rd)] = 2x4x2000x2 = 32.000 gp
If you want a non-slotted item like the "sock of the fearless", the price is doubled to 64.000 gp.
A restriction that isn't a restriction doesn't count. Restricting a pally item to pallies was a joke, right? :)
The item creation section is meant as a set of guidelines, they aren't hard and fast rules. Anything that makes something permanent or improves class features must always be watched very carefully. Since it is possible to abuse the system quite a bit by making low-level effects continuous, the DM has to watch out and set prices for such power accordingly to common sense instead the table.
I have no problems as DM, if one of my players wishes to construct this item, let's say as a ring. The aura of courage is nice to have, but hardly gamebreaking by granting +4 to saves against fear. You wouldn't get me to lower the price, though, unless you can come up with a real restriction, say it works only during daytime, doesn't include those of non-good alignment (or members of your religion), protects only against fear effects from evil beings or something like that. The severity of these examples varies quite a bit, but you'll get the idea.
Wonderstell |
Permanency spell doesn't explicitly list Widen Auras but it does say GM's may allow other spells. From what I can gather on this I would need to find a scroll of permanency and make two 30ish UMD checks since the Widen Auras spell is personal, permanency isn't on the paladin spell list, and I'd need to emulate the 15 int score required to cast it. All of that for one dispel magic to completely negate it, not to mention the hard as balls UMD check.
2,500 for the scroll, another 5,000 for the diamond dust.
Always at the risk of getting dispelled, and the GM will have a hard time actually using dispell against you since it is such an obvious weakness.
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I was also researching on using a custom magic item. I believe that should follow this formula for pricing, Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2. So that should be 2 x 3 x 2,000gp = 12,000gp? (2nd level spell x 7th level paladin should only have a casting level of 3 x 2000gp since the spell is minutes per level.) Now to stretch the feasibility here, if the above is correct could you then restrict it to only paladin's for 30%(3600gp) price reduction? This should leave you with a cost of 8400gp to buy or 4200gp to craft? By the rules that should be allowed right? Convincing the DM however will probably be a different story.
That would be Spell level (2) x Caster level (4) x 2,000 gp. And then double that since the spell's duration is in minutes.
If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
So a price of 32,000 gp according to the Magic Item Creation Guidelines.
The first rule of Magic Item Creation is that there are no rules, only approximations.
Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point.
So our starting point is 32,000 gp.
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What would this item be worth to you?
Probably one free standard action and a lv 2 spell slot every fight.
One may say that this is the benefit of around three Pearls of Power (2nd) (12,000 gp) and a Lesser Quicken Metamagic Rod (35,000 gp), making the price rise to 47,000 gp.
We do however have one existing way to quantify the value of increasing the range of a Paladin's auras: The half-elves favored class bonus.
Add +1 foot to the size of all the paladin's aura class features. This option has no effect unless the paladin has selected it 5 times (or another increment of 5); an aura of 14 feet is effectively the same as a 10-foot aura, for example.
If you made an item based off of this effect, then one could argue that it is the worth of a Belt of Mighty Constitution +2, or a Headband of Vast Intelligence +2.
So 4,000 gp for an item which raises the range of your auras at level 5, 10, 15 and 20.
But since you'll probably have both the Belt and Headband slot occupied, it would be wise to make this item slotless and raise the price to 8,000 gp. Or add it to your Belt/Headband for 6,000 gp (150% price as per the Multiple Different Ability guidelines).
I would probably make it so that an Half-elf couldn't benefit from this item if she also had the favored class bonus, and then raise the price since it grants non-half-elves access to an option they normally wouldn't have. Prob +50% increase of the price.
mcquackers |
restriction that isn't a restriction doesn't count. Restricting a pally item to pallies was a joke, right? :)
Well I mean the description does say, "Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%." The spell does work for both paladins and antipaladins.... yeah that was mostly to make sure I was doing the math right.
Magic Item Creation wrote:If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.So a price of 32,000 gp according to the Magic Item Creation Guidelines.
The first rule of Magic Item Creation is that there are no rules, only...
Well the part that confused me about that is their example of the Lantern of Revealing. Following that formula you get 3 x 5 x 2000 = 30000gp which is the cost of the item. Invisibility Purge lasts for minutes/level and they didn't multiply the cost by 2. The rest of the examples seemed to follow their formula at least so did they just not double the cost or am I missing something here?
Drahliana Moonrunner |
Well I mean the description does say, "Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%." The spell does work for both paladins and antipaladins.... yeah that was mostly to make sure I was doing the math right.
It's still a flase restriction, as it poses NO restriction to your character's use of the item. I never allow those to fly. "Like a wand of magic missile that only arcane casters can use."
Now a wand of magic missile that can only be fired twice a day, or three times a week.... THAT'S a meaningful restriction.
mcquackers |
It's still a flase restriction, as it poses NO restriction to your character's use of the item. I never allow those to fly. "Like a wand of magic missile that only arcane casters can use."Now a wand of magic missile that can only be fired twice a day, or three times a week.... THAT'S a meaningful restriction.
Yeah that is what the joke comment was about. Vatras made plenty examples of what real restrictions might look like. I probably should have used the sarcasm font on my reply, it seems like that was overlooked.
Wonderstell |
Wonderstell wrote:Well the part that confused me about that is their example of the Lantern of Revealing. Following that formula you get 3 x 5 x 2000 = 30000gp which is the cost of the item. Invisibility Purge lasts for minutes/level and they didn't multiply the cost by 2. The rest of the examples seemed to follow their formula at least so did they just not double the cost or am I missing something here?Magic Item Creation wrote:If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.So a price of 32,000 gp according to the Magic Item Creation Guidelines.
The first rule of Magic Item Creation is that there are no rules, only...
I believe Lantern of Revealing is a use-actived item, and would therefore not apply the 2x price multiplier since it only is used on Continuous magic items.
Mark Carlson 255 |
I might go another route that is not covered by the rules. But I would as a GM really analyse how it would affect my game now and in the future to see if there would be any problems.
As a posted poster above he/she thinks the ability is worth a 2nd level spell per encounter so why not say as a deities blessing they give you such a power but it costs you some spell slots or requires you to sacrifice something else as a trade.
I might also make an adventure out of it requiring you the paladin to do X, Y and Z to gain said ability.
Often I have found that simply putting a gp value on something does not solve all the problems said item may cause in my game, but at times having that info does play into a situation to help me judge how powerful it would be also.
MDC
Jarred Henninger |
the ring of continuation works on spells with a 10 min/lvl duration and makes 1 a 24 hour duration. so i would expect an item that works on 1 min/lvl spells to cost at least the same amount.
the Fearless aura feat is an option for later lvls
james014Aura |
It's only ONE aura, but Inheritor's Crusader gets this at level 1, which might be useful for comparison, such as to any other objects which apply to class features.