Magus spellstrike question


Rules Questions


At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Suppose a magus casts a spell using spellstrike but misses and holds the charge. Would a subsequent attack still multiply spell damage by 2 on a critical hit, or would just the initial "free" attack be eligible for a crit for the spell?

The wording seems to indicate that just the "free" melee attack is eligible for the spell crit but it's still a little unclear.

Another question would be whether a SLA is eligible for spell combat and spell strike. Can a nabasu magus use their SLA vampiric touch with spell strike for example?


Celanian wrote:

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Suppose a magus casts a spell using spellstrike but misses and holds the charge. Would a subsequent attack still multiply spell damage by 2 on a critical hit, or would just the initial "free" attack be eligible for a crit for the spell?

The wording seems to indicate that just the "free" melee attack is eligible for the spell crit but it's still a little unclear.

Another question would be whether a SLA is eligible for spell combat and spell strike. Can a nabasu magus use their SLA vampiric touch with spell strike for example?

The first sentence allows you to use any attack action, not just your free attack action, to discharge your spell using spellstrike.

The ability explicitly calls out spells so SLAs don't work.


MeanMutton wrote:
The first sentence allows you to use any attack action, not just your free attack action, to discharge your spell using spellstrike.

The question is: if you miss with your free Attack, but crit with the next attack (not with a nat. 20), does the spell still crit? The wording suggests that you have to crit with the free attack granted by spellstrike.

Example: You attack with a Rapier (Crit 18-20, x2) and Spellstrike. Your first attack is the attack granted by Spellstrike and you miss. Your second attack rolls a 19 and you can confirm the critical hit. By RAW, since you did not crit with the free attack of Spellstrike (reffered in RAW as this attack), your weapon cirts, but your spell does not.


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turing85 wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
The first sentence allows you to use any attack action, not just your free attack action, to discharge your spell using spellstrike.

The question is: if you miss with your free Attack, but crit with the next attack (not with a nat. 20), does the spell still crit? The wording suggests that you have to crit with the free attack granted by spellstrike.

Example: You attack with a Rapier (Crit 18-20, x2) and Spellstrike. Your first attack is the attack granted by Spellstrike and you miss. Your second attack rolls a 19 and you can confirm the critical hit. By RAW, since you did not crit with the free attack of Spellstrike (reffered in RAW as this attack), your weapon cirts, but your spell does not.

The phrase, "this melee attack", emphasized in the quote, does not necesarily refer to the attack in the second sentence. It actually refers back to "part of a melee attack" from the first sentence. The second sentence is an interruption from the explanation about how spells are delivered through spellstrike in order to add that the free touch attack from casting the spell can be converted to a free weapon attack with spellstrike, instead.

Imagine that second sentence moved to a new paragraph all by itself. That would be clearer.

Quote:

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.


Regarding SLAs, they won't work because both Spellstrike and Spell Combat specify a Touch spell from the magus spell list.

FAQ wrote:

Magus, Spell Combat: What spells can I cast when using spell combat?

The relevant text of the ability is:

"As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty)."

The spell you cast when using spell combat has to be a magus spell you know, and it must be a magus spell prepared with one of your magus spell slots.

(Other magus abilities may modify what spells can be used with spell combat. For example, the broad study magus arcana explicitly states the magus can use spell combat to cast spells from the selected non-magus spellcasting class.)


What if its an SLA that is a spell on the magus list?


Tarantula wrote:
What if its an SLA that is a spell on the magus list?

To be a spell from the Magus spell list, it must first be a spell. SLAs are not spells.


Tarantula wrote:
What if its an SLA that is a spell on the magus list?

It still isn't cast from the Magus spell list. So, while Frostbite is on the Magus spell list, it's also on other spell lists. If a Magus/Sorcerer, for instance, learned Frostbite through Sorcerer levels, he couldn't use it with Spellstrike or Spell Combat by default because, while it's on the Magus spell list, he's casting it as a Sorcerer (using Sorcerer CL and the Sorcerer spellcasting class ability) rather than as a Magus spell. In other words, the Magus/Sorcerer is a Sorcerer casting Frostbite instead of a Magus casting Frostbite. You'd need the Broad Study arcana to allow the Frostbite learned through Sorcerer levels to be usable with Spellstrike and Spell Combat.

Scarab Sages

Any spell with an attack roll can crit regardless of the means of delivery. That language is only present to indicate that the spell does not use the weapons crit threat modifier.

prd wrote:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

I believe the general rule-of thumb presented in this faq applies: (in fact the whole thing give some great guidence)

faq wrote:
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.


This is true and in canon with what I wrote. I never denied that a spell can crit, but normally only with a nat. 20. Using the weapon's crit modifier is a HUGE bonus for a spellcaster, especially if the weapon is keen and has a total crit range of 15-20.


Welcome to the whole point of being a magus.


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turing85 wrote:
This is true and in canon with what I wrote. I never denied that a spell can crit, but normally only with a nat. 20. Using the weapon's crit modifier is a HUGE bonus for a spellcaster, especially if the weapon is keen and has a total crit range of 15-20.

Yes it is. And the magus can add the keen property to any weapon.

Why did you think so many magi are using scimitars?


turing85 wrote:
This is true and in canon with what I wrote. I never denied that a spell can crit, but normally only with a nat. 20. Using the weapon's crit modifier is a HUGE bonus for a spellcaster, especially if the weapon is keen and has a total crit range of 15-20.

Yup. A heightened, maximized shocking grasp crits and basically dead bad guy.


MeanMutton wrote:
turing85 wrote:
This is true and in canon with what I wrote. I never denied that a spell can crit, but normally only with a nat. 20. Using the weapon's crit modifier is a HUGE bonus for a spellcaster, especially if the weapon is keen and has a total crit range of 15-20.
Yup. A heightened, maximized shocking grasp crits and basically dead bad guy.

Why would you heighten shocking grasp (a no save spell)? Did you mean intensified?


Snowlilly wrote:
turing85 wrote:
This is true and in canon with what I wrote. I never denied that a spell can crit, but normally only with a nat. 20. Using the weapon's crit modifier is a HUGE bonus for a spellcaster, especially if the weapon is keen and has a total crit range of 15-20.

Yes it is. And the magus can add the keen property to any weapon.

Why did you think so many magi are using scimitars?

I know and I do not deny the crit range for a magus-spell. In fact, in my current campagin, I have a magus who uses this ability. We interpret the spellstrike as it was described by Mathmuse since I think that this is how it was intended. The RAW wording, however, is confusing and would be clearer if it would specify that either only the free attack granded by spellstrike uses this critical range or the attack that delivers the spell uses the critical range wrt. spell critical thread (which by the way would include spells that grant multiple touch attacks, since each successive hit delivers (a part of) the spell's effect).

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