How do I solo Pathfinder?


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Just what makes a Paladin good at soloing? The Paladin has more flavor about it than actual power. Tortured Crusader ha a couple useful aspects to it(more skill points, wisdom as casting stat, charisma becomes dump stats as normal) but doesnt even fix the alignment overspecialization. It also loses alot of use out of its key abiltities. Divine Grace is one that boosts all saves the more Charisma you have. Tortured Crusader chucks that out the window. Thats actually a contradiction of what you said about always needing to pass saves

But just being critical is not productive, so can you show me a build?

Liberty's Edge

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ChaosTicket wrote:

Just what makes a Paladin good at soloing? The Paladin has more flavor about it than actual power. Tortured Crusader ha a couple useful aspects to it(more skill points, wisdom as casting stat, charisma becomes dump stats as normal) but doesnt even fix the alignment overspecialization. It also loses alot of use out of its key abiltities. Divine Grace is one that boosts all saves the more Charisma you have. Tortured Crusader chucks that out the window. Thats actually a contradiction of what you said about always needing to pass saves

But just being critical is not productive, so can you show me a build?

Umm... >_>

I did show you a full build...in this very thread...

Silver Crusade

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Human
Bard
Str 12
Dex 17 (+1 at levels 4, 8, & 12)
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 7
Cha 14
Starting HP11 (+8HP per level)
Skill Ranks Per level 10
Primary Weapons
Two Weapon Fighting Rapier, & Dagger
Secondary Weapon
Compost Short Bow
Traits
Vagabond Child (Disable Device as a class skill)
Reactionary
Feat's
Fast Learner
Lingering Performance
3 Weapon Finesses
5 Improved Initiative
7 Two Weapon Fighting
9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Discordant Voice

Much more versatile in the roles this character can fill. The only thing this build can't do is offensive caster. With a few magic items you can sub in for a cleric using UMD for wands, and scrolls.

Dwarf
Bard (Arcane Duelist)
str 16
Dex 7
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 9
Cha 15 (+1 at levels 4, 8, & 12)
Starting HP 12 (+9HP per level)
Skill Ranks Per level 7
Primary Weapon
Heavy Pick, & Battle Standard Grand Lodge (Flag)
Just a note this is a high damage character for using a one handed weapon. Level 1 Heavy Pick.
To Hit BAB 0 Str +3 Flag Bearer +1 Inspire Courage +1 = +5
Damage Str +3 Flag Bearer +2 Inspire Courage +1 Arcane strike +1 = +7 (Critical hit +32)
Traits
Killer
Zest for Battle (+1 Damage when you have a morale bonus to hit.)
Feat's
Arcane Strike
Flag Bearer
2 Combat Casting
3 Spell Focus Enchantment
5 Quick Draw
6 Disruptive
7 Greater Spell Focus Enchantment
9 Power Attack
10 Spellbreaker
11 Discordant Voice

This build is mostly combat focused. Mindless creatures can be a problem. The main focus is casting hold XX. Then coming in with a heavy pick and Coup de Grace.


nennafir wrote:
I did show you a full build...in this very thread...

Oh yeah I missed that earlier. Dont have a high opinion of Paladins because of how incredibly impractical they are.

That is low offense, high defense build. I dont know how the tankiest build ive ever looked it would be good soloing. Youre saves are high, sure, but not guaranteed. I think you could do the same thing with a multiclass build unless those once-per-day abilities basically makes you immortal.

Im missing the appeal. For all I know you have a power to wipe out everything in a 100mile radius. To me it looks like your would have trouble killing anything.


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I'm less versed in PF for this kind of thing, but I know that in pokemon, you can win fights by pretty much defence only. SubSeed FTW!


This is a sidetrack, but what about a Magus build?

A Magus can have decent skills because its an intelligence based caster, and has access to armor and martial weapons. Infernal healing on a wand is worse as a combat heal than Cure Light Wounds but still a solid way to self-heal heal, and actually heals more making it more cost-efficient than a wand of Cure Light Wounds.

There are some decent spells for buffing, crowd control, and even offense.


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^This just might work . . . Although as I posted under Base Classes, you need somebody you can trust to at least make a good effort to get you back up and running again if you fail a critical Save or take massive damage -- hence the Familiar Magus Arcana being even more important than for a Magus working in a more normal situation.

Dark Archive

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There literally is no class/archetype or multiclass that can do it all, especially in pfs, where some of the stronger archetypes and things like variant multiclassing are banned. If you try to do it all, you will be spread thin and do everything poorly. Most spellcasters can come close and maybe do two or three things well, especially the 6/9 casters that usually have pretty potent class abilities. Even if you do a pretty good job, there are a lot of skill based encounters in the newer scenarios where you will autofail without a whole party working on it.


The Core classes were made to each be some kind of specialist whether its about Fighting, Skills, or Magic. Some bend things like Clerics being casters with armor or a Ranger having high skill points.

Its very much about how the class is designed. Magus and Inquisitor are both solid having physical, magic, and skills.

There are builds to make specialists classes less so like the defense focused Tortured Paladin or a skill focused Fighter I saw about a month ago. Because it doesnt keep the fundamental point of the character class you lose so much that it often just becomes a question of picking another class.

Skill based Fighter? Pick Vigilante. Wizard that can fight? Magus.

Making a super-character that is master or everything is impossible. Its still fun making characters that can do more than one thing well. I have a Bard that excels in skills, which would be more useful if I didnt get into Dungeon Crawls or have a Barbarian during an investigation.


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Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
There literally is no class/archetype or multiclass that can do it all, especially in pfs, where some of the stronger archetypes and things like variant multiclassing are banned. If you try to do it all, you will be spread thin and do everything poorly. Most spellcasters can come close and maybe do two or three things well, especially the 6/9 casters that usually have pretty potent class abilities. Even if you do a pretty good job, there are a lot of skill based encounters in the newer scenarios where you will autofail without a whole party working on it.

Theoretically, you don't have to be able to do absolutely everything. You just need to be able to do enough (and be able to call in a specialist when you can't) to make it through whatever you're trying to make it through, and fake being able to do everything well enough so that enemies (and in some cases reluctant allies) believe you. Naturally, if you don't have access to Mythic or Gestalt or something else beyond the normal rules, you may have to get yourself overleveled for whatever you're up against, even if it means that you have to go somewhere secret where you can kill several tens of millions of boars for 2 XP apiece for 21 hours per day for 6 weeks straight . . . .


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My best take on a one man army is Druid...

Player Character+
Animal Companion+
Awoken Companion/Tree (loyal and devoted unless you awaken something else)+
Summon Nature's Ally spontaneous spell+
Leadership+
Liveoak spell (Treant guardian)+
Changestaff spell (Treant guardian)+
Shambler spell

This makes; You, Animal Companion, Awoken Animal Companion (Magical Beast- Augmented Animal), Cohort, 1d3 Purple Worms(my choice at SNA IX), 2 Treants and 1d4+2 Advanced Shambling Mounds. You would have quite the personal army. A lot of the troops from spells will be CR6:Shambling Mound and CR8: Treant but your Cohort will be almost as powerful as you, as well as your awoken friend... who would probably gain levels as a PC. Heck, you could possibly even build a Construct to tag along as well. I know a Wizard or Summoner could do something similar but in my opinion the Druid's capabilities with the Awoken animal companion (basically a second Cohort) and Wildshape make them stronger and more fun in combat

Dark Archive

Tyrant Lizard King wrote:

My best take on a one man army is Druid...

Player Character+
Animal Companion+
Awoken Companion/Tree (loyal and devoted unless you awaken something else)+
Summon Nature's Ally spontaneous spell+
Leadership+
Liveoak spell (Treant guardian)+
Changestaff spell (Treant guardian)+
Shambler spell

This makes; You, Animal Companion, Awoken Animal Companion (Magical Beast- Augmented Animal), Cohort, 1d3 Purple Worms(my choice at SNA IX), 2 Treants and 1d4+2 Advanced Shambling Mounds. You would have quite the personal army. A lot of the troops from spells will be CR6:Shambling Mound and CR8: Treant but your Cohort will be almost as powerful as you, as well as your awoken friend... who would probably gain levels as a PC. Heck, you could possibly even build a Construct to tag along as well. I know a Wizard or Summoner could do something similar but in my opinion the Druid's capabilities with the Awoken animal companion (basically a second Cohort) and Wildshape make them stronger and more fun in combat

Except this is for PFS which bans all of that. No awakened animal companions or trees and no leadership.


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Joining in a tad late...

First Off:
I've never ran a solo campaign with Pathfinder. But my wife and I have taken turns GMing solo-PC* campaigns for the other in 5E. Specifically, 5E conversions of Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Carrion Crown and Council of Thieves.

Now, in all four cases we started at 2nd level and there were often a couple of NPCs helping out... but the focus was always on the PC to be at the center, fighting the biggest and baddest of the enemies and doing most of the work. So while it's not exactly what you were talking about, and it is a somewhat different system, the experience crosses over somewhat.

If your dealing with a monster-bash scenario where the player is fully in control of when they approach encounters, when they can rest, has foreknowledge of what they'll fight and doesn't have to worry about any aspect of the game except killing things... Actually, play anything you like - at that point the solo accumulation of XP and wealth will see you catapult ahead of the curve dramatically, and between magic items and spellcasting services any class is workable.

If you're actually trying to play through some Adventure Paths or similar content, which contain more than simply monsters, but puzzles, social scenes, traps, travel and a variety of other challenges... then you have a very, very different kettle of fish, and I'd take a lot of the advice being thrown around with a grain of salt.

As a quick summary of things you'll need if you want to succeed:

  • Hitpoints. Lots of them. Either in yourself or your minions.
  • Good defenses. If you're on your own, you're facing a lot of unpleasantness. Even if you have minions, Intelligent foes will target you if you're a glass cannon.
  • Skills. Lots of skills. In particular, Perception, Diplomacy, Stealth, Sense Motive, Acrobatics, Disable Device, Use Magic Device and Knowledge skills. You can try to ignore them, but a lot of APs add some weight to social and skill challenges.
  • Trapfinding. Traps are a thing, and you can't go blowing resources bypassing every one when there's already a diminished pool of resources. Dip Rogue.
  • Good offense. You will be facing a lot of baddies, and you will need to dispatch them quickly and reliably.
  • Staying power. Without other PCs you'll need to be able to fight (literally) four times the number of baddies between rests... and often you the player do not control when you can rest.

While there is the whole "Wizards are OP" meme, they (and witches and sorcerers) are a terrible choice for a 1st level solo character, as they are largely lacking in all of the above. Arcane casters are often called "quadratic" against the "linear" of martial characters, because they advance at an escalating rate... but they start off being (comparatively) weak as kittens as they have neither the spells, nor the spell slots to really shine until higher levels.

Divine casters like Clerics and Oracles fair better, and are a much better option... at least in terms of combat, as they suffer massively in the skills department.

Indeed, probably the strongest offerings for solo games are the hybrid classes: Bards (yes, really), Inquisitors, Alchemists and (to a lesser extent) Magi. All of them have access to spells that bolster the character or allow them to overcome obstacles, and yet also retain an ability to still hold their own (via reasonable combat ability and skills) even when said resources are expended.

Another thing to point out is this: If you are soloing a campaign, you'll be getting four times the normal XP and four times the normal loot, which will quickly make you both over-leveled for the AP and overgeared for your level.


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Cory Stafford 29 wrote:

Except this is for PFS which bans all of that.

I didnt state that so I dont know where you got that from.


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ChaosTicket wrote:
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:

Except this is for PFS which bans all of that.

I didnt state that so I dont know where you got that from.

From here.


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So let me get this straight YOU believed what SOMEONE ELSE said about MY intentions?

Ever learn what hearsay is?


I'm not in a court trying to put you away.

Why wouldn't we believe him? It was five days ago and you hadn't ever disagreed with it.

Silver Crusade

If your looking to solo a AP, or adventure by your self. This is a good way to do it. The hunter is a very strong base to work from. They are very effective in combat, and have access to healing / buffing magic. The goal is to send the animal companion in first then place your self in combat to take advantage their position. Same when you get the cohort they should go in last. This gives them the best chance at survival, and ability to flank.

Human
Hunter
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
HP 10 (+7 HP per level)
Skill Ranks per level 7
Favored Class Bonus: ++1 Skill Rank to your animal companion.
Traits
Reactionary
Weathered Emissary: Linguistics as a class skill
Race Trait
Eye for Talent
Feat's
Toughness
3 Power Attack
BTW 3 Look Out
5 Torcher Bearer < Unchained Rogue Cohort
BTW 6 Improved Spell Sharing
7 Escape Route
9 Improved Initiative
BTW 9 Swap Places < replace if animal companion is not medium size.
11 Improved Critical

Bear
Animal Companion Small
Str 15 +2 Eye for Talent +2 Animal Focus = 19 < All other ability increases.
Dex 15
Con 13 < +1 at level 4
Int 2
Wis 12
Cha 6
HP 11 (4.5 +1 Per Hit Dice)
Skill Ranks 1 per level Maxing out Perception, Survival.
Headband of Int (Skills Stealth then Acrobatics)
Feat's
Light Armor Proficiency < Chain Shirt Barding
Hunter Level
2 Power Attack
5 Toughness
8 Medium Armor proficiency < Mithral Breast Plate Barding
10 Improved Over Run


I would go with an Alchemist. His Bombs should do enough damage to survive the first levels. His skills let him fill in the rogue-role in essential parts. Outside PFS you can take advantage of his alchemical skills and produce acid, alchemical fire, antidots, tanglefootbags, alchemical amunition for your crossbow etc.

Concerning melee you put one of your 8+ skillpoints in handle animal and simply buy yourself a trained dog, wolf, tiger, axebeak, hellhound, ... (depends on the market and your current money). No need for a class with animal companion just for an animal.

One of your skillpoints you spend for use magical device (with the proper feat to use INT for it) and here you go with spells outside your list. For soloing there should be enough money on all those gadgets you will need.


What about this?

Class: cleric

Concept: manipulative and charismatic cult leader.
Alignment: chaotic evil.

Deity: none, but embraces the philosophy of the trickster god Loki *
Ability scores: MAD with relatively high charisma.

Domains: travel and trickery.
Notable spells: invisibility, fly, dimension door, teleport, mislead, summon monster.

Skills: focus on diplomacy, bluff and stealth.
Notable Feats: sacred summons and leadership.

Cohort: skill focused trap finder, e.g trapper archetype ranger.

* not a Pathfinder deity, but he should be.

Dark Archive

ChaosTicket wrote:
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:

Except this is for PFS which bans all of that.

I didnt state that so I dont know where you got that from.

I guess someone else did, and I thought it was in the op.

Grand Lodge

Tardy to the party...
Never mind classes or builds.
I haven't seen much on races either - I'm sure someone said something though.

But if you look at the core mechanics of leveling you are going to either:
Get four times xp and loot (and die) - or - The DM/GM is going to have to augment the rules to match your APL and that means basically at level 1 you will be walking down a path and you will encounter 3...goblins.

So the real advice I have is this, whether it is 3 or 12 goblins, that is what you need to build around.

There are a ton of great ideas here, but none of them will work for you at level 1 up against the CR = to four level 1s. Average HP being 1d6 - 1d12
+ con score. So those very simple yet annoying goblins only have to hit you for 1 each, that should be it.

ENOUGH NEGATIVITY!

AC is a priority with low CR foes whose tricks add up to "i stab you."
Saves SAVES...so yeah 2 strong saves is a must here. Then follow that up with a class spells/abilities that work with your weaknesses. You're not focusing on trying to "flesh out" your PC with "oh yeah and on 13th level I get blah that will let this Blank situation be just slightly easier on my d20.
Feats, just survival feats (not the skill) for instance any feat that improves saves or allows a re roll is just dandy for your PC.
To sum up my inane post - build a PC around staying power, but talk to the GM about what your are going to getting into. If it is a low magic campaign HOORAY! then just build a Pally or Cleric with improvised feats and spells for staying power. If it is High-fantasy campaign...you're screwed unless the APL is set with you in mind.


Boomerang Nebula wrote:

What about this?

Class: cleric

Concept: manipulative and charismatic cult leader.
Alignment: chaotic evil.

Deity: none, but embraces the philosophy of the trickster god Loki *
Ability scores: MAD with relatively high charisma.

Domains: travel and trickery.
Notable spells: invisibility, fly, dimension door, teleport, mislead, summon monster.

Skills: focus on diplomacy, bluff and stealth.
Notable Feats: sacred summons and leadership.

Cohort: skill focused trap finder, e.g trapper archetype ranger.

* not a Pathfinder deity, but he should be.

A possible slight modification of this using Golarion deities is to have Calistria (PathfinderWiki entry, Archives of Nethys entry) as your deity, and then be a Separatist Cleric to get the Travel Domain (although this archetype trades out automatic proficiency with your deities' favored weapon, which is a no-go if you wanted to go with a Whip build). Since Calistria flirts with Evil enough to commission Antipaladins (see the Archives of Nethys entry linked above), this wouldn't necessarily even be frowned on too much.

Alternatively, the Tian-Xia Monkey King Sun Wukong (Chaotic Neutral) and the Daemonic Harbinger Folca (Neutral Evil) actually have both Domains.

Any of the above could suit charismatic Chaotic Evil cult leaders, although each is also suited to cult leaders that are something other than Chaotic Evil.

Dark Archive

Trapper ranger 1/witch 9 (strength patron)/eldritch knight 10. Has skills, a strong spell list including some cleric spells for healing and buffing. Also has decent skill and trapfinding. You could maybe even take an archetype for your familiar to make it more useful. You also have hexes.


Belmont Martel wrote:

Tardy to the party...

Never mind classes or builds.
I haven't seen much on races either - I'm sure someone said something though.

But if you look at the core mechanics of leveling you are going to either:
Get four times xp and loot (and die) - or - The DM/GM is going to have to augment the rules to match your APL and that means basically at level 1 you will be walking down a path and you will encounter 3...goblins.

So the real advice I have is this, whether it is 3 or 12 goblins, that is what you need to build around.

There are a ton of great ideas here, but none of them will work for you at level 1 up against the CR = to four level 1s. Average HP being 1d6 - 1d12
+ con score. So those very simple yet annoying goblins only have to hit you for 1 each, that should be it.

ENOUGH NEGATIVITY!

AC is a priority with low CR foes whose tricks add up to "i stab you."
Saves SAVES...so yeah 2 strong saves is a must here. Then follow that up with a class spells/abilities that work with your weaknesses. You're not focusing on trying to "flesh out" your PC with "oh yeah and on 13th level I get blah that will let this Blank situation be just slightly easier on my d20.
Feats, just survival feats (not the skill) for instance any feat that improves saves or allows a re roll is just dandy for your PC.
To sum up my inane post - build a PC around staying power, but talk to the GM about what your are going to getting into. If it is a low magic campaign HOORAY! then just build a Pally or Cleric with improvised feats and spells for staying power. If it is High-fantasy campaign...you're screwed unless the APL is set with you in mind.

I did consider large numbers of weak foes like goblins and kobolds. That is why I suggested an evil cleric with a relatively high charisma score. Even at level 1, two negative energy channels are typically enough to wipe out any number of goblins.


@ UnArcaneElection,

Some really great suggestions there.


Boomerang Nebula wrote:

What about this?

Class: cleric

Concept: manipulative and charismatic cult leader.
Alignment: chaotic evil.

Deity: none, but embraces the philosophy of the trickster god Loki *
Ability scores: MAD with relatively high charisma.

Domains: travel and trickery.
Notable spells: invisibility, fly, dimension door, teleport, mislead, summon monster.

Skills: focus on diplomacy, bluff and stealth.
Notable Feats: sacred summons and leadership.

Cohort: skill focused trap finder, e.g trapper archetype ranger.

* not a Pathfinder deity, but he should be.

In Theory that is an awesome build. In practice its questionable.

Domains are alot of trouble for wildly varied gains. Domain spells can only be use in Domain slots which you only have one per day to use each day. The Theologian archetype is specifically made to be able to use domain spells in any slot, so you can use a Fire Domain to chuck Fireballs.

Clerics are also skill starved. Any skill after Perception is hard to focus on.


Also, not exactly what you want, but see my post about how to be the only spellcaster in a party. If you go for one of the summoning-focused choices and drop the VMC Bard (if applicable) and get Leadership or at least a Familiar (especially if Leadership is banned) to have a shot at UMD to fix you up in case you go down, you just might be able to pull off what you want.

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