Cerebremancer Input Sought


Advice and Rules Questions


I am looking at a new character and considering a Cerebremancer, not a class I have seen anything about on these forums, maybe cos its Dreamscarred not Paizo.

Anyway, I m looking for feedback and don't know of any rule about asking here. Sorry if I am being bad. :(

I am thinking of taking a Peri-blooded Aasimar, which gives me +2 int and Cha and pyrotechnics once/ day and hence the pre-requisites for entry as a Wizard.

My GM gives us a 20 point build and won't allow you into Cerebremancer of Mystic Theurge before level 7, considering it unbalanced. So don't tell me I can go into the PC at level 5, thats the RAW but my GM says no.

My stats look like this-

Str 8 Cost-2
Dex 10 Cost-0
Con 12 Cost 2
Int 20 Cost-17, +2 racial
Wis 10 Cost-0
Cha 15 Cost-3 +2 racial

And the plan is-

Level 1 Synthesist Summoner-
Only one level to allow me to use my physical stats as dump stats and give me some AC.
Level 2 Wizard 1
Levels 3-6 Psion levels 1-4
Levels 7-16 Cerebremancer
Level 17-20 [likely] Psion Levels 5-8

At level 20 the character has 18th level manifesting and 11th level casting.

Thoughts? Its not hard to find people who know more about psionics than me. And suggestions of the type of Psion is also welcome.


You're two levels behind as a psion and six as a wizard. By the time you enter cerebremancer the wizard casting is largely decorative, used in combat only to boost the effect of psion powers. Are you sure you need it at all?

On disciplines: Psychoportation is mobility plus some battlefield control. This is the one I'd go with. Metacreativity does the psionic version of summoning, plus a few random effects, Psychokinesis is mostly blasting, Telepathy and Clairsentience have very nice if specialised effects; all of these are possible. Psychometabolism is for a gish which you are not.


Thanks for the suggestions.
You only give up one level to get into cerebramancer, the other is to get the benefits of a synthesist eidelon, which is an option for a specialist psionic or arcane caster. It is still losing a 2nd level.

As with mystic theurge, the cerebremancer loses a bit in clout in the primary class and gains a lot in terms of depth and flexibility. Another plus is you can use arcane caster magic items like wands of fireballs.

The cerebremancer is better if the GM is applying the RAW, when you can get into it at level 4, or 5 if you want a level of synthesist.


How do you get into Cerebremancer at 4th level???

It takes 2nd level spells and 2nd level powers. How do you get 2nd level spells and powers without being 3rd level in two different classes?


I'll have to put some thought into this.


With only a single level as a synthesist, your eidolon is going to pop like a balloon once you start getting into higher tiered adventures.

Try to get out of the mindset that you need a 20 in your casting stat at first level.


wait wait wait, one of the requirements for cerebremancer is cast 2nd lvl spells... neither your single levels of wizard or summoner brings you that... so how do you qualify on that count?


I just checked and synthesist is a Summoner who doesn't get 2nd level spells until 4TH LEVEL. So that's even WORSE than a regular caster. Do people just never look at the rules when they make these builds???

Ohhhh, ok. They are using a 1st level only feat called Precocious Apprentice that gives a 1st level caster a 2nd level spell slot that they can cast, kind of. This would satisfy the need for being able to cast 2nd level spells, I guess. Seems pretty cheesy to me. I wouldn't allow it. Messes up game balance.


omegaman03 wrote:
I just checked and synthesist is a Summoner who doesn't get 2nd level spells until 4TH LEVEL. So that's even WORSE than a regular caster. Do people just never look at the rules when they make these builds???

The poster is probably still in the Early entry from racial SLA's mindset.. remember his character is an Aaasimar which gets Daylight, what he's probably interpreting as meeting the 2nd level spell requirement.


Precocious Apprentice is 3.5, not PF... I doubt it's acceptable at many tables.

But seriously, going early entry into MT (or in this case cerebremancer) on the strength of an SLA is such a bending around of obvious RAI that I don't get how it was ever allowed, even before the FAQ that nixed it.


Klorox wrote:

Precocious Apprentice is 3.5, not PF... I doubt it's acceptable at many tables.

But seriously, going early entry into MT (or in this case cerebremancer) on the strength of an SLA is such a bending around of obvious RAI that I don't get how it was ever allowed, even before the FAQ that nixed it.

For a long while the Paizo devs encouraged it... presumably to sell the aasimar and tiefling books, and only lately reversed themselves on that item.


I don't know a DM who allows entry into a spellcasting PrC with only a SLA.

Besides, going Wizard 3, Psion7 and Cerebremancer 10 works OK. You can compensate with Overchannel and it's sister feat, if you have to. The boosted DCs of the psion are so strong that he will still be stronger than a wizard 20. Also, given how the psionic system works, it does not matter what level his powers are - a boosted 1st level one is as good as a 9th unboosted one and costs the same. Level 17 or 18 does not matter much therefore. Given that he picks the 4th level power that allows to reconstruct the character (psychic reformation), even the number of powers known is irrelevant.

Fiddling around with a class as powerful as the psion is not really needed. I have seen one in action at high levels and it would not matter, if he also had another class. The only thing that really matters to a psion are his PP and how many he can spend per round. Any multiclass is just for personal amusement.

(Stat of 20 plus the focus feats and the power enhancement grants a DC of 27 on a typical power at level 20 - some have special DCs too -, plus whatever stat enhancements are around by then, so DC 30-34 is common. Which a wizard or cleric can only look upon in envy. It often boils down to the question how often he can manifest Recall Death per day.)


Vatras wrote:
I don't know a DM who allows entry into a spellcasting PrC with only a SLA.

As Drahliana alluded, that used to be the official interpretation, backed by the FAQ. I didn't care for it much, so I was fine when they changed their mind (I played 3.5 for a long time, when the rule matched the current FAQ), but I can certainly see a DM who decided to keep the original FAQ.

Similarly, I know many PF DM's who played a lot of 3.5 and allow at least some 3.5 material into PF. So Precocious Apprentice may be an option in the OP's game. It just depends on the DM.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
With only a single level as a synthesist, your eidolon is going to pop like a balloon

Don't forget that Synthesist gets Fused Link at 1st level. So as long as he can take Free Actions, he can keep the Eidolon by taking damage to his HP instead of his Eidolon's temp HP.

I agree, in general, that the 1 level of Synthesist seems to complicate things unnecessarily though.

I would suggest either going Synthesist Summoner/Wilder, or forgetting the Synthesist altogether and just going Wizard/Psion. You can use Surge or Overchannel, respectively, to help with the missing manifester levels. This lets you focus on a single casting stat, and either is an option with Peri-blooded Aasimar.

For stats, I would suggest Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8 for a Wizard build.
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 10 after racials.

For a Summoner build, Str 8, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18.
Str 8, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 20 after racials, plus physical stats based on Eidolon.

So, depending on what your DM allows, I see several options.

DM retains previous SLA FAQ to qualify for PrC
Peri-blooded Aasimar Synthesist Summoner 1/Wilder 6/Cerebremancer
or
Peri-blooded Aasimar Wizard 1/Psion 6/Cerebremancer

No SLA qualification, but allows Precocious Apprentice (3.5)
basically the same as above

If your DM doesn't allow either of these, you could try the feat Equipment Trick (Sunrod). It is PF, not 3.5, and there is no current FAQ against it. Light spells you cast are treated as 1 level higher, so a 1st level Wizard casting flare burst would count it as a 2nd level spell "for all purposes."
No SLA, no Precocious Apprentice, using Equipment Trick
basically, still the same as above for Wizard
DOESN'T work for Summoner, unless someone can find a 1st level Summoner [Light] spell

Finally, Vatras is correct that losing a few manifester levels is less bad for a psionic class than losing caster levels is for arcane casting classes.

So Wizard 3/Psion 4/Cerebremancer with Overchannel would work out okay in the long run, but it can be painful to be 7th level with only 2nd level spells/powers.

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