Rosc |
So, the Dagger Pistol. It's an amusing double weapon that let's you stay armed for melee when you focus on ranged. The language describing the blade is a little vague, but I want to know if the blade end carries the stat profile of a Dagger.
This is mostly because I want to use it as a thrown weapon, and I'm not sure if it would count as Improvised in that case.
Of course, it's also good to know if the stabby end has some kind of seperage crit range/modifier.
Rosc |
...you want to throw your gun at people?
Yep! I want to make Pathfinder just a little more Anime.
If you had a double weapon where one side has a range increment... why can't you throw the other side as well?
See, that't the part that has me thinking this might be possible, but it could lead to Table Variation. And if it counts as Improvised with all the roadblocks that come with that, then I may as well abandon the whole thing and play a regular gunslinger. And nobody wants that.
PossibleCabbage |
I'd say you could throw it. If you look at real historical (or replicas thereof) dagger pistols it's really a dagger with a tiny pistol built into the handle with the barrel parallel to the blade.
The firearm assembly would almost certainly make it more awkwardly weighted than a normal dagger and thus aerodynamic, but the game mechanics make no distinction between knives specially weighted for throwing and ones that are made sturdier for stabbing, so I'd say go ahead.
Snowlilly |
When a mook is shooting at superman, he just stands there and takes it. But when they run out of bullets and throw the gun, he ducks. Therefore, thrown guns are more imposing than bullets.
Metroman > Superman: he does not need to duck when people throw things at him + he can see through lead.
Kazaan |
Logically, I'd have to conclude that rules elements that apply to daggers (eg. throwing, Weapon Focus(Dagger), Knife Master archetype abilities, River Rat trait, etc.) would apply to a Dagger Pistol when it's being used as a dagger. Of course, you couldn't apply Weapon Focus (Dagger) when firing it like a pistol and you couldn't apply Weapon Focus (Pistol) when using it for melee/throwing as a dagger, but if you're going to throw it, I see no real reason to not treat it as a dagger when doing so. It already explicitly spells out the limitations of the combination, such as losing the ability to easily conceal it as you could with either a plain Dagger or a Pistol. So, if it wasn't meant to be thrown as a Dagger, I'd presume it would also specify that limitation. Since it doesn't, we can conclude that it is valid to throw a Dagger Pistol just as you would throw a Dagger, using the same parameters as using a Dagger (eg. throwing range increments, dagger crit, etc.). However, one needs to consider the comparative value of the weapon. A Dagger costs 2 gp while a Dagger Pistol costs 740 GP. You throw a Dagger and some goblin grabs it and runs off, well, whoop-de-doo, he ran off with a 2 gp weapon. But if you throw your 740 gp Dagger Pistol and some goblin grabs it and runs off, you're going to be right pissed.
The Sideromancer |
Logically, I'd have to conclude that rules elements that apply to daggers (eg. throwing, Weapon Focus(Dagger), Knife Master archetype abilities, River Rat trait, etc.) would apply to a Dagger Pistol when it's being used as a dagger. Of course, you couldn't apply Weapon Focus (Dagger) when firing it like a pistol and you couldn't apply Weapon Focus (Pistol) when using it for melee/throwing as a dagger, but if you're going to throw it, I see no real reason to not treat it as a dagger when doing so. It already explicitly spells out the limitations of the combination, such as losing the ability to easily conceal it as you could with either a plain Dagger or a Pistol. So, if it wasn't meant to be thrown as a Dagger, I'd presume it would also specify that limitation. Since it doesn't, we can conclude that it is valid to throw a Dagger Pistol just as you would throw a Dagger, using the same parameters as using a Dagger (eg. throwing range increments, dagger crit, etc.). However, one needs to consider the comparative value of the weapon. A Dagger costs 2 gp while a Dagger Pistol costs 740 GP. You throw a Dagger and some goblin grabs it and runs off, well, whoop-de-doo, he ran off with a 2 gp weapon. But if you throw your 740 gp Dagger Pistol and some goblin grabs it and runs off, you're going to be right pissed.
What about Weapon Focus (dagger pistol)?
PossibleCabbage |
But if you throw your 740 gp Dagger Pistol and some goblin grabs it and runs off, you're going to be right pissed.
If you want to avoid this situation, you could get "returning" enchanted on your dagger pistol, but since the dagger pistol is a double weapon you would have to enchant the dagger part and the pistol part separately. Would your weapon still return to you no matter what part of the weapon "returning" is enchanted on, or do you have to have it on the dagger?
Saethori |
If you want to avoid this situation, you could get "returning" enchanted on your dagger pistol
And if ranged weapons impart their enchantment to their ammunition, that means the pistol would fire returning bullets. That would certainly be frightening.
Yes, I know it doesn't work like that, but I find the imagery humorous.
The Sideromancer |
PossibleCabbage wrote:
If you want to avoid this situation, you could get "returning" enchanted on your dagger pistolAnd if ranged weapons impart their enchantment to their ammunition, that means the pistol would fire returning bullets. That would certainly be frightening.
Yes, I know it doesn't work like that, but I find the imagery humorous.
I now want a bullet-cycling rail gunblade.
Rosc |
Kazaan wrote:But if you throw your 740 gp Dagger Pistol and some goblin grabs it and runs off, you're going to be right pissed.If you want to avoid this situation, you could get "returning" enchanted on your dagger pistol, but since the dagger pistol is a double weapon you would have to enchant the dagger part and the pistol part separately. Would your weapon still return to you no matter what part of the weapon "returning" is enchanted on, or do you have to have it on the dagger?
Eehhhh. The wording of Returning means that you'll only get one attack with it, iirc. Considering the damage die and the relative power of Vital Strike, the enchant is already obsolete by the time you can afford it since you'll have the ability to make multiple attacks by that point.
Unless someone is really excited at the prospect of dealing Harsk-like damage at level 7, I doubt this particular conflict will ever arise.
Greyfang |
A friend and I have been discussing the possibilities of two weapon fighting with dagger pistols and a Blink Back Belt. Using Quick Draw and Alchemical Cartridges, you should be able to Shoot-Throw-Shoot-Throw in theory as many times as you get attacks.
Practical? Probably not...
Funny as heck? I can just see my GM staring at me incredulity wondering what the hell I was thinking :D