Composite Longbows Rules Debate


Rules Questions


I've been having a debate with my DM for a while now about how Composite Longbows work, and I would very much like some help figuring this out.

So, I have a Composite Longbow +2. My understanding of the bow leads me to believe that the +2 is an inherent strength rating of the bow that transfers a portion of your strength mod to damage rolls so long as you have a STR mod of at least +2. No magic involved, it just comes from how the bow is built. My DM says that that is a Masterwork level, and thus refuses to let me Masterwork my bow, and claims that I can't get enchantments higher than +2. So which of us is right? Is it a non-magical, built-in attribute of the bow, or is it a magical enchantment/masterwork?

Also, if it is the former, does that mean I can get it Masterworked and have the bonuses stack?

Edit: Oh, and if at all possible, could you include any links to relevant materials (pathfinder wiki, paizo site, etc.)?


The damage bonus from a composite bow is a built in characteristic of the bow, not an enhancement bonus or magic or masterwork. It is a bonus to damage that requires you to have a minimum strength bonus to utize without penalty.

Masterwork is a separate thing tbat would give you an bonus to hit, stacking is a nonissue because the composite str bonus is damage only.

Making the bow magic would stack with the damage bonus, different bonus types, but not the masterwork bonus to hit, both are enhancements.

If you need more clarity/ support I suggest the two of you read the CRB entry together.

Edit: I have trouble linking from my phone, but CRB equipmemt chapter rules for composite bows, and magic chapter for bonus stacking rules.


You're right in this one. However, if your GM feels it's broken, you're not likely to get your way. Either be ready to concede or move on.


The confusion is in the name. Composite longbow +2 could refer to either one.

If its a (100 gp +200) gp item, its the strength bonus

If its the (100gp bow +300 for masterwork +8,000 gp for a +2) its the enhancement bonus, and you can't put a strength bonus on it BUT... for a mere 1,000 gp you can toss the adaptive property on it and use whatever strength bonus you have.


you and your DM are having a discussion over 3 types of effects.

1) Composite bows are made to benefit from the strength of the wielder which adds the strength modifier to the damage. page 141 core rulebook under projectile weapons and page 147 core rulebook under bow, composite.

2)Keep in mind, you must differentiate between enhancement bonus and strength bonus i.e... +2 Composite Longbow (+2 Strength). Easier to understand.

3) you can have a masterwork Composite Longbow (+2 Strength) and enchant it further as able. Page 149 core rulebook under Masterwork Weapons.

In effect, Composite(strength) adds to the damage, Masterwork adds to the attack. And when the bow gets enhancements, they supersede the masterwork bonus to attack.


My understanding

ALL composite bows are ALWAYS designed for a particular minimum STR rating (from UE ".. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating ...). This design is NOT magical

Masterwork quality is also NOT magical, rather it is a particularly well made bow (from UE ... A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon...)

You need masterwork quality in order to to enchant the weapon but the masterwork quality by itself is not a magical enhancement. It is the masterwork quality benefit (+1 to hit) which does not stack with a magical enhancement.

Thus, you could have a masterwork comp bow +2 which would add +1 to hit and +2 damage (assuming you have 14+ str). If you give it a magical +1 enhancement, it would have a +1 to hit (the masterwork and magical enhancement do not stack) and a +3 damage (since the strength and the magical enhancement do stack)

edit - I agree with the above posters about saying something like +1 comp bow (+2 str rating)


Normally, a Composite Longbow +2 would refer to a STR rating of +2 (basically, what you described). If it was an enchanted composite longbow, conventional notation would dictate that it be called a +2 Composite Longbow instead. For example, if you have a Composite Longbow enchanted to +4 with a strength rating of 3, it would usually be written as +4 Composite Longbow +3, or +4 Composite Longbow (+3 STR rating).

PRD:Longbow, Composite wrote:
Longbow, Composite: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow.

Assuming it's a Composite Longbow with a STR rating of 2, your description is correct, OP, and the GM is wrong.

PRD:Masterwork Weapons wrote:

A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

You can't add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill). The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp).

Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used. The enhancement bonus of masterwork ammunition does not stack with any enhancement bonus of the projectile weapon firing it.

All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon's magic.

Unless you are using a specific spell, you cannot turn an existing weapon into it's masterwork counterpart without making a whole new weapon.

Also, I'm not sure what your GM is talking about in general. There's no such thing as masterwork levels, for one. If a weapon is masterwork, it gets a +1 ENH bonus on all attack rolls made with that weapon. The Masterwork weapon property is necessary for a weapon to be enchanted. However, there are no "masterwork levels". Either it's masterwork, or it's not. As such, the "masterwork level" has nothing to do with the maximum magic weapon enhancement bonus you can attach to the bow.

The final bolded segment means that if you have a masterwork longsword that has been enchanted to +1, you don't get a +1 attack bonus from the masterwork quality in addition to the magic +1 attack bonus. The magic +1 bonus overrides the masterwork enhancement bonus. If you want, you could increase the magic bonus to +2, or +5, as long as you have the gold. The only reason the masterwork weapon quality is relevant to magic weapons is because a weapon has to be masterwork to be enchanted, and the bow's STR rating has nothing to do with the maximum enhancement bonus the weapon can have.

Did all of that make sense?
I got all my quotes from the Core Rulebook, in the Equipment chapter. If you're using a physical book, the Composite Longbow quote came from page 147, and the masterwork quote from page 149.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

The confusion is in the name. Composite longbow +2 could refer to either one.

If its a (100 gp +200) gp item, its the strength bonus

If its the (100gp bow +300 for masterwork +8,000 gp for a +2) its the enhancement bonus, and you can't put a strength bonus on it BUT... for a mere 1,000 gp you can toss the adaptive property on it and use whatever strength bonus you have.

This is why the +X for a magic item goes at the start and not the end. It is, admittedly, a bit confusing for notation when there are two places that +X can show up.


Bloodrealm wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

The confusion is in the name. Composite longbow +2 could refer to either one.

If its a (100 gp +200) gp item, its the strength bonus

If its the (100gp bow +300 for masterwork +8,000 gp for a +2) its the enhancement bonus, and you can't put a strength bonus on it BUT... for a mere 1,000 gp you can toss the adaptive property on it and use whatever strength bonus you have.

This is why the +X for a magic item goes at the start and not the end. It is, admittedly, a bit confusing for notation when there are two places that +X can show up.

To be fair, longsword +1 is just as correct as +1 longsword, though not as common. There is a reason all of the composite longbows in monster stats and magic item descriptions follow the same pattern:

Quote:
Combat Gearpotions of cure light wounds (2), potions of longstrider (2), alchemist's fire (2); Other Gear+1 chain shirt, +1 composite longbow (+3 Str) with 20 arrows, masterwork elven curve blade, climber's kit, 2 gp
Quote:
Of elven make, this white +2 composite longbow (+2 Str bonus) whispers, "Swift defeat to my enemies" in Elven when nocked and pulled.

The strength rating of the composite bow is always listed in parentheses just to keep this from being a problem.


Bloodrealm wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

The confusion is in the name. Composite longbow +2 could refer to either one.

If its a (100 gp +200) gp item, its the strength bonus

If its the (100gp bow +300 for masterwork +8,000 gp for a +2) its the enhancement bonus, and you can't put a strength bonus on it BUT... for a mere 1,000 gp you can toss the adaptive property on it and use whatever strength bonus you have.

This is why the +X for a magic item goes at the start and not the end. It is, admittedly, a bit confusing for notation when there are two places that +X can show up.

It goes at the start because in English (the language PF was written in), adjectives normally precede their noun. If you are playing in a language where adjectives normally follow their noun (French, for instance), the +X magical enhancement will be at the end, too, so you need to put the strength rating in brackets to disambiguate.


Composite Longbows are not magical weapons or masterwork by default. Just like any other weapon.
There are no rules supporting a conflict between the STR bonus of a composite longbow and enhancement bonuses.

If you think your DM is out to be fair, ask him politely to explain where he's getting this from.
If he's the kind of DM that just knee-jerk ballpark-house-rules, then no amount of proof we give you here can help you.

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