Good Deific Obedience options for a Bard


Advice


So I was planning on running a bard for a new campaign, and while I've not used them before, I decided to try out a deific obedience for the first time, since they seemed pretty interesting. However, I'm not to familiar with the deific obediences, so I'm not sure which would be a good choice for a bard. For reference, I've decided on a halfling bard, who's somewhat specialized for range with a sling-staff (Having a good backup to spells and BPs seemed like a good idea, seeing as how few spell slots bards get). Any help would be appreciated.


Look up Shelyn's. Her obedience is extremely bardic friendly.

Liberty's Edge

Irori gives you a +4 bonus on all knowledge checks. This might go well with bardic knowledge.


I'm a big fan of Pharasma's obedience. However daggers prolly aren't the best weapon for bards. Unless you plan on playing a high level busker bard.

Silver Crusade

Milani


Not Sarenrae. Sarenrae may be best girl, but her Deific Obedience boons suck.

Liberty's Edge

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Shelyn gives a +4 bonus on all Perform checks. So...that's pretty amazing. The other benefits aren't half bad either (assuming they ever kick in).

Bloodrealm wrote:
Not Sarenrae. Sarenrae may be best girl, but her Deific Obedience boons suck.

Eh. +2 Perception isn't bad and the others are all okay for some characters.

Not the best Obedience to take without a Prestige Class though, no.


Bloodrealm wrote:
Sarenrae may be best girl...

... debatable. My choice for best girl would probably exclude encouragement of terrorism.

Now shelyn. She's got bards covered. +4 to performance for doing regular bard things? Sign me up. That's a +4 to nearly any two skill pairs you can think of, or with Pageant of the Peacock, every knowledge, like Irori's.

Or craft, in case you want to roll with that.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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No matter how hard they try to retcon the Taldor thing, people never let it go. -_-

(Unless there's a different "endorsement of terrorism" thing I missed.)

Milani, though... maybe.

Silver Crusade Contributor

As for the topic, I'd echo recommendations of Shelyn (surprise) or Irori. If you want a broader focus on Charisma-based skills, Calistria or Naderi do good work (assuming you can handle the portfolio - or the obedience itself). If you were a gnome (and were on board with diabolism), I'd recommend Mahathallah for the bonus she grants on illusion DCs. I'm not familiar with any particularly helpful Celestial Obedience options off the top of my head.


Hastur also gives a +4 Performance bonus...

Silver Crusade Contributor

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Hastur also gives a +4 Performance bonus...

I almost recommended Hastur, but I figured it would be dismissed compared to Shelyn (especially since Hastur's obedience is far more expensive).

That said, if the character intends to go evangelist, that might change the equation - Hastur's second boon might be useful to a bard. ^_^

Liberty's Edge

Green Smashomancer wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Sarenrae may be best girl...
... debatable. My choice for best girl would probably exclude encouragement of terrorism.

Uh...Sarenrae doesn't do this. She didn't do this even in the (since retconned) Taldor stuff.

Not even the Cult of the Dawnflower does that. They do some warmongering and the occasional assassination, but not terrorism. And Sarenrae doesn't approve of them or their life choices anyway.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Hastur also gives a +4 Performance bonus...

Trying to find it, what book is the Hastur deific obedience in?

Silver Crusade Contributor

Pirate Rob wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Hastur also gives a +4 Performance bonus...
Trying to find it, what book is the Hastur deific obedience in?

Pathfinder Adventure Path #110: The Thrushmoor Terror. ^_^


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Kalindlara wrote:

No matter how hard they try to retcon the Taldor thing, people never let it go. -_-

(Unless there's a different "endorsement of terrorism" thing I missed.)

Milani, though... maybe.

Don't feel too bad, it's been a few months since someone tried to inject Paladins of Asmodeus as a thing.

But on the ugly side, it's another "Brown people equals muslims equals terrorism" thing.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Green Smashomancer wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Sarenrae may be best girl...
... debatable. My choice for best girl would probably exclude encouragement of terrorism.

Uh...Sarenrae doesn't do this. She didn't do this even in the (since retconned) Taldor stuff.

Not even the Cult of the Dawnflower does that. They do some warmongering and the occasional assassination, but not terrorism. And Sarenrae doesn't approve of them or their life choices anyway.

Imma be honest here. I don't even know what taldor stuff anyones talking about. Inform me? But, the most comprehensive info I could find on the Cult is on the wiki. It doesn't mention anything about Sarenrae not backing them. In fact, they've been around for centuries, so it ain't a short term thing. If you have more information than that page, can you tell me:

  • Who gives the clerics of the CotD spells?

  • Who grants their deific boons?

  • Why there's no mention of any kind of friction between the main clergy and the Cult? This one, I may be wrong about, but I skimmed my ISG copy, and don't see anything about that.

    If Sarenrae gives benefits to the Cult, then she seems to be showing approval to me. I'm honestly curious as to why you say she doesn't condone their behavior.

    Now don't get me wrong, I could actually dig the idea. Sarenrae could be a more conflicted deity (or at least, the public's view of her), with the Cult, and that would add an interesting level of depth to the otherwise bland obligatory Good-guy god. Instead, evidently we get white-washing retcons because Sarenrae isn't allowed to do wrong, I guess. And folks saying the Cult of the Dawnflower dabbles in warmongering, but that doesn't mean they're bad.*

    *Yeah, I didn't use the exact word "bad" in my first post. Whoops.

    Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:


    But on the ugly side, it's another "Brown people equals Muslims equals terrorism" thing.

    Also this, which bugs the hell out of me. Paizo went out of their way for LGBT folks to feel welcome, but they still decide "ooh! The religious extremists for the deity that encourages mercy and peace should be from our middle-eastern part of the map!"

    ...

    And in conclusion, Shelyn is best girl.


  • Walks in... sees the direction this conversation is headed and walks back out!!! I will be checking out Naderi though, thanks for bringing that one up, Kal.


    What? Everyone knows Shelyn is best girl.

    But nah, you're right. That last post is pretty loaded looking back on it.

    @Deadmanwalking: If you wanna keep discussing the cult, PM me.

    ...

    Nobody take that out of context.

    Liberty's Edge

    Sarenrae does indeed still give them spells. They're Neutral, and thus within one Alignment step of her. That doesn't actually mean she approves of what they're doing.

    In fact, per James Jacobs, she's explicitly right on the verge of stopping doing that, or at least giving them a talking to, and has only held off this long to try and give them the opportunity to redeem themselves (being the Goddess of Redemption, and all).

    And even officially, she explicitly disagrees with them pretty strongly on multiple levels.

    edit: Ninja'd. I'll continue this in PM if you wanna go further.


    Eh, if the divine casters who get spells from her break her tenets and thus earn her ire, they fall. IF they haven´t, she is at best undecided.

    Anyway, another vote for Shelyn. Her obedience gives awesome extras to a bard and does not require something very strange or hard to do. I have to say, though, Caiden Caylean isn´t half bad - especially if you are in places (or use the unchained rules) where poisons become a serious issue.


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    The Skeptical Gnome wrote:
    So I was planning on running a bard for a new campaign, and while I've not used them before, I decided to try out a deific obedience for the first time, since they seemed pretty interesting. However, I'm not to familiar with the deific obediences, so I'm not sure which would be a good choice for a bard. For reference, I've decided on a halfling bard, who's somewhat specialized for range with a sling-staff (Having a good backup to spells and BPs seemed like a good idea, seeing as how few spell slots bards get). Any help would be appreciated.

    Just to remind folks what the thread is about.


    Deadmanwalking wrote:

    Sarenrae does indeed still give them spells. They're Neutral, and thus within one Alignment step of her. That doesn't actually mean she approves of what they're doing.

    In fact, per James Jacobs, she's explicitly right on the verge of stopping doing that, or at least giving them a talking to, and has only held off this long to try and give them the opportunity to redeem themselves (being the Goddess of Redemption, and all).

    And even officially, she explicitly disagrees with them pretty strongly on multiple levels.
    {. . .}

    Note that these things aren't enough by themselves -- since they cast Protection from Evil or similar spells at least 3 times per year, under the terms of the Contract of Creation, their spellcasting and Domain Power privileges cannot be revoked as long as they remain within 1 alignment step of her . . . (Smurfs in and ducks out before the rotten tomatoes finish their arcs)

    Liberty's Edge

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    UnArcaneElection wrote:

    Note that these things aren't enough by themselves -- since they cast Protection from Evil or similar spells at least 3 times per year, under the terms of the Contract of Creation, their spellcasting and Domain Power privileges cannot be revoked as long as they remain within 1 alignment step of her . . . (comes in and ducks out before the rotten tomatoes finish their arcs)

    This is simply mechanically untrue on a couple of levels.

    Firstly, Horror Adventures (where its noted that spells are aligned acts) says it's entirely up to the GM how many spells result in an Alignment shift. All numbers are hypothetical examples and/or vague advice, not hard and fast rules.

    Secondly, per the Cleric description "A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by her god loses all spells and class features"...so if they directly break her tenets, even being the right Alignment doesn't help them at all. Sarenrae may be more merciful than most in this regard (being the Goddess of Mercy)...but there's very definitely a line.

    Note: The above quote is edited for blue-thing removal.

    Silver Crusade Contributor

    The question is - how much of the stuff in print (and thus, on the Wiki) is still canon?

    It was a mistake, and one they're attempting to correct. But the meme of Sarenite terrorists is just as pervasive as misogynistic Erastil or Asmodean paladins.

    shrug

    In the end: if you want it to be true in your games, nobody can take that away from you. ^_^


    Another vote for Shelyn being best girl the strongest obedience for a Bard. Perform pluses lead to all your Versatile Performance choices including entirely outdoing Irori's obedience if you go for Pageant of the Peacock (which you should).

    Best girl is Pharasma, in case anyone was still expressing inferior opinions.

    Dark Archive

    Calistria is best girl. Is Pharasma is somewhere at 2nd.


    I'll also +1 Shelyn who is pretty much made for bards. The obedience is not difficult and it has a fallback option that is doable even if you are stuck somewhere isolated. And, if you have an artistic talent you can potentially even do it yourself during the game.

    Among the empyreal lords, if you are willing to go that route, there is:

    Ashea: The obedience is easy and comes pretty naturally (no pun intended) though I would not recommend incorporating it into your RP. :) You get "a +4 sacred bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks when interacting with an intelligent creature who could be sexually attracted to you."

    Lymnieris: A trivial obedience (lie still on the floor and get uncomfortable) that gives you +1 on any healing spells that you cast.

    Olheon: Another easy obedience, gives you +4 to saves against charm and compulsion effects. You get a bard that is more resistant to other bards (among other things).

    A couple of the others give bonus on saves vs. illusion in case that is interesting to you.


    Thanks for all the help guys. Sorry, been a bit busy lately so it took me a while to respond. Discussion seemed to get a bit...derailed, but still plenty of good ideas. Shelyn seems like the way to go, though thanks to John Mechalas for a bunch of other very interesting options.

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