can you make an effective demoralizer at lvl 3?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


and how would you do it with a fighter? intimidate is a standard action, is there a way to speed that up? or should i go AoO fighting style?


A 3rd level Stalker Vigilante can use Dazzling Display to deal 2d4 non-lethal damage to everyone they intimidate.


isn't a vigilante a hard class to get into?


The Faith trait Omen gives you the ability to use Intimidate as a swift action once a day, in addition to providing a nice +1.

In addition, going Fighter means you can pick up Dazzling Display at as early as level 1, and also have Skill Focus (Intimidate) by then as well if a human or half-elf.


Workable options include:
- Cornugon Smash (requires 6 BAB, can demoralize as free action)
- Enforcer (free action demoralize, but you have to deal nonlethal)
- 3 levels of Swashbucker (Swift action demoralize)
- Bullying Blow (free action demoralize, but you have to be an orc and it' paired with a standard action attack)
- Gory Finish (standard action attack, swift action demoralize to everybody nearby if it kills)

Dark Archive

With a raw Fighter? Improved Unarmed Strike and Enforcer at the start. Advanced Weapon Training allows options for unarmed strikes to scale up in damage, not unlike a Monk or Inquisitor, meaning your damage isn't stuck at a base d3 for damage.

If you're willing to play analternate class, the Vigilanty has great synergy with demoralize builds. Way more skill points, class features that kind of make Charisma worth keeping at double digits, and way to give a +4 to Intimidate rolls above and beyond shat you could normally do.

At second level, aCavalier in the Order of the Cockatrice gets Dazzling Display for free, which allows you to demoralize a whole area as a full round action. But the Cockatrice version can be used as a standard action.

Grand Lodge

Intimidating Prowess, Bludgeoner(UC), Enforcer(APG), unless you're married to a non-bludgeoning weapon. As a Half-Orc you could have those feats by your second fighter level, then throw in a level of Thug Rogue (APG) so that they become frightened instead of just shaken if you scare them hard enough.


I would say:

Enforcer feat (lvl 1), Merciful Scimitar combat trait, wield a scimitar. Power Attack, and if human, get Hurtful; which lets you swift action melee attack someone who you just demoralized.

If you want a Sap instead, that works too and doesn't cost a trait, but you cannot 2h a sap like you can a scimitar for additional damage. The scimitar is also optionally lethal or nonlethal with the trait, and has a high crit range.


Also, John Scala's comment about Thug Rogue is a good idea; I've done it before and it's ridiculous against most enemies. I'd say my start; but then level 2 get a Rogue level.


i was thinking of using a meteor hammer as the weapon of choice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here's a character I am currently running in Giant Slayer as he was at third level:

(Note: Our group always uses a 25 point buy, but that shouldn't make a huge difference on a 20 point buy.)

Half Orc Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor 1 / Viking Fighter 2
Conversion Inquisition (Wis to social skills)

S: 18
D: 12
C: 14
I: 12
W: 16
Ch: 7

Traits: Demoralizing Presence, Fate's Favored, Magical Knack (Inquisitor)
Drawback: Mark of Slavery

Feats: Power Attack, Hurtful, Intimidating Prowess, Weapon Focus (Bardiche)

Intimidate (for Demoralize) skill: +19 or +20
3 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (wisdom) + 2 (race) + 2 (trait) + 4 (Feat) {+ 1/2 (favored class bonus) + 1/2 (Stern Gaze class feature)}

The two Viking levels allow Move Action attempts to Demoralize. Hurtful allows a Swift Action attack after a successful Intimidate check in combat. Stern Gaze gives +1/2 per level and Half Orc FCB gives +1/2 per level, so you could interpret that to an additional +1 to Intimidate each level of Inquisitor or +2 every other level of Inquisitor.

Am 9th level now, with all the rest of the levels being Inquisitor. He has obtained Cornugon Smash, Dazzling Display, and Shatter Defenses. His Intimidate skill is up over 30 on Demoralize attempts now. He has a +1 Cruel Bardiche.

Here are examples of how a combat round can go:

1. Full Round Dazzling Display followed by a Cornugon Smash Intimidate check and Hurtful triggered Swift Action attack on a creature within reach.

2. Full round attack with two attacks followed by a Cornugon Smash Intimidate check and a Hurtful triggered Swift Action attack.

3. (My favorite) Move Action Intimidate check to Demoralize the target. Hurtful triggered Swift Action attack. (Enemy now at -4 to saves from Sickened and Shaken). 5' step out of melee reach. Standard Action casting of Inflict Pain. The target is now (for at least one round) suffering from the following:

-8 to attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks
-4 to saving throws
-2 to damage rolls


zainale wrote:
and how would you do it with a fighter? intimidate is a standard action, is there a way to speed that up? or should i go AoO fighting style?

With a fighter I would go with the Viking archetype.


zainale wrote:
isn't a vigilante a hard class to get into?

Not particularly.


At level 3? It's tough to pull off.

I had an idea of a Human Antipaladin Scare-monger build. Looked like a ton of fun.

Feats:
Dazzling Display (we houseruled WF was unnecessary)
Cruelty
Signature Skill [Intimidate] - Goes great with Dazzling Display

With Aura of Cowardice, it makes stacking fear effects incredibly dangerous. Especially with the shaken/frightened cruelties.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

thug rogue 3 with enforcer . best in the game.
viking 2 > thug 1 works great also


With a meteor hammer:
Bludgeoner feat removes penalty for non lethal with bludgeoning weapons
Enforcer feat allows free intimidate with nonlethal melee attack

Note: the above is class agnostic, meaning it can be applied to any build or race by level 3. Fighter makes it possible as early as level 1, provided you obtain meteor hammer proficiency somewhere.


Maybe a performance fighter?

1: Weapon focus (whatever)
1B: Dazzling display (same weapon)
2B: Hero's Display
3: Performing Combatant

This lets you swift action to demoralize foes within 30feet who can see you.


Fighter 1/Rogue (Thug Archetype) 2
This is a 20pt buy yu may have to change a bit for a 15pt

At level 3 intimidate is 17 (3 ranks, 3 class skill, 2 half-orc, 3 skill focus, 2 cha, 4 str) to demoralize its 19 because of the trait. With the thug archetype you'll get an extra round of shaken every time you demoralize and you can turn four rounds of shaken into freightened if you like.

Assuming on average a CR3 creature has 3 HD and a +1 Wis bonus you DC to Demoralize is 14 on an average roll you'll get 27 which means you'll beat the DC by 13 so 1 round for success, 2 rounds for being 10 over the DC (1 for every 5 over) and 1 free round for Thug. Which means on average you'll get 4 rounds of shaken.

Half-Orc

Intimdating: +2 to intimdate
Toothy: Some half-orcs' tusks are large and sharp, granting a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage.
Chain Fighter: Some half-orcs have escaped from slavery and reforged the chains of their imprisonment into deadly weapons. Half-orcs with this racial trait are proficient with flails and heavy flails, and treat dire flails and spiked chains as martial weapons.
Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Str 18 (+2 from Half-Orc)
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 11
Cha 14

Traits
Dominator: You receive a +2 trait bonus on all attempts to demoralize an opponent in combat using the Intimidate skill.
Any Other trait you think fits

Fighter 1/Rogue (Thug) 19

Level 1 Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)
Level 2 Sneak Attack 1d6, Finesse Training, Frightening
Level 3 Dazzling Display, Evasion, Rogue Talent (Strong Impressions [Intimidating Prowess])
Level 4 Sneak Attack 2d6, Brutal Beating, finesse training
Level 5 Pesuasive, Debilitating Injury, Uncanny Dodge, Rouge Talent (Combat Trick [Gory Finish])
Level 6 Sneak Attack 3d6, Rogue's Edge
Level 7 Power Attack, Rogue Talent (Powerful Sneak)
Level 8 Sneak Attack 4d6
Level 9 Furious Focus, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent Ninja Trick (Combat Trick [Shatter Defense])
Level 10 Sneak Attack 5d6
Level 11 Cornugon Smash, (Advanced) Rogue Talent (feat [Disheartening Display])
Level 12 Sneak Attack 6d6,
Level 13 Hurtful, (Advanced) Rogue Talent
Level 14 Sneak Attack 7d6,
Level 15 Dreaful Carnage, (Advanced) Rogue Talent
Level 16 Sneak Attack 8d6
Level 17 Feat, (Advanced) Rogue Talent
Level 18 Sneak Attack 9d6,
Level 19 Feat, (Advanced) Rogue Talent
Level 20 Sneak Attack 10d6


Issac Daneil wrote:

I would say:

Enforcer feat (lvl 1), Merciful Scimitar combat trait, wield a scimitar. Power Attack, and if human, get Hurtful; which lets you swift action melee attack someone who you just demoralized.

If you want a Sap instead, that works too and doesn't cost a trait, but you cannot 2h a sap like you can a scimitar for additional damage. The scimitar is also optionally lethal or nonlethal with the trait, and has a high crit range.

Mock Gladiator is another great Trait if you don't want to use a Scimitar or want to save your Combat Trait.


i am thinking 4th lvl fighter (gladiator/ titan fighter) nothing says gladiator like having a huge weapon. then picking up that rogue (thug) at 5th.


it may not be the best mechanically sound combo but it has style..... yes?


My demoralizer is a Half-Orc Thug/Monk (unchained for both).
The key points to the build are:
Thug to level 3 for Brutal Beating (I went to level 4 for Debilitating Injury.)
Monk to level 5 for Spin Kick style strike
Enforcer
Shatter Defenses
Intimidating Prowess (I went with a strength build)

At level 9 the attack sequence goes like this: (flurry)
1st attack is non-lethal Spin Kick vs flat footed AC, inflicting shaken and sickened conditions, also a -4 to target's AC.
2nd attack is a normal attack vs (reduced) AC. If it hits all further attacks are vs flat footed AC due to Shatter Defenses.
3rd attack is an iterative and should be vs flat footed AC for sneak attack damage.
Spend a Ki point for another attack if necessary.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / can you make an effective demoralizer at lvl 3? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion